Home of all OOC discussion for this Iobarian campaign.
Created the gameplay thread.
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Heh - green dragon sorcerer. Interesting choice. I still consider Green Dragons to breathe poison, not acid. In AD&D, blacks had the acid breath weapon and greens had poison. Did the same damage, just different types. At some point, while I was not playing (1990-2010), some foolish person decided that poison should not be a breath weapon, and turned the green into a nature loving black. Oh well.
I'm glad I'm not the only one! Green dragons breathe poison. I always assumed that they borrowed that from literature.
And yeah, I thought it would be interesting to play a character not nearly optimized yet thought himself better than everyone. :)
Thanks for catching me on Pjiana's name! I made the change in the last thread that was still editable. I'll try to be more careful going forward. My eyes just did not catch that!
DM, was this the campaign that you invited me to? I apologize for being confused, I just want to make sure I'm right before I post here.
I also want to let you guys know that the reason I haven't posted sooner is that I've been very sick. But I'm better now, and ready to start (if this is the right campaign thread.)
Mark, yes, this is the one that you were invited to.
Very sorry to hear about your sickness. I hope that all is better now. Go ahead and post when you are ready! Welcome aboard.
Thanks! :)
Glad you're feeling better!
I think Radek is the only one left...
I've PM'd him to see if he's still on board.
Sorry, I posted right before I left the office yesterday and it didn't go through. I'm on board.
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On more than a few occasions, I have hit the preview rather than the post button. My guess is that is the common culprit as I have rarely last a post when I hit the "Submit Post" unless I took too long to type it resulting in the site timing out (and with 23,000 posts, I have had lots of chances for lost posts).
Ok, so I know you don't know any of those games, other than Blackjack, because I just made them up.
So, here's how we will do the gambling:
Each game will have a Target Number that will vary on the complexity and difficulty of the game.
Dice will be 20.
Blackjack will be 30.
Bear and the Bee 40.
The Queen's Gambit 50.
Fairly straight forward so far.
Each game will require a minimum bet the first round.
At the start of every subsequent round every player will again place the minimum bet.
Each player then rolls opposed Knowledge (gaming and gambling checks) with the winner adding to their DS (Degree of Success).
Each player then rolls another skill check and adds that to his DS.
Each player may then choose to bet again or to fold.
All players still in then start the process again with opposed skill checks.
The winner will be the player whose DS at the end of a round is equal to or exceeds the Target Number for the game. If two or more players exceed the Target Number in the same round the player that ends with the highest DS wins.
Make sense or clear as mud?
Hopefully that makes sense. So basically the actual game you choose doesn't matter, the process
Sure.
Tom, Dick, and Harry are playing Dice so they have a Target Number of 20 to win.
Round 1:
All ante up 5 gp. (Pot is 15 gp)
All roll opposed Knowledge (gaming and gambling) checks. Tom rolls 13, Dick rolls 5, Harry rolls 14. Harry wins and adds the 14 to his DS so he now has a DS of 14.
All players now make another skill check. Tom rolls 19, Dick rolls 13, Harry rolls a 3.
End of Round 1 - Tom has a DS of 19, Dick has 13, and Harry has 17 (14+3).
Round 2:
All put in minimum bid of 5 gp. (Pot is now 30 gp)
All roll opposed Knowledge (gaming and gambling checks). Tom rolls a 17, Dick rolls a 15, and Harry rolls a 17. Tom wins because he has a higher bonus to his check indicating his skill level. Tom adds the 17 to his DS to give him a DS of 36 now and he wins the pot!
Does that make sense? Dice will be quick because of the low Target Number but the other games would take a few more rounds.
We could also allow betting after the skill rolls to increase the pot if we want. With cards, people could also fold at any time also.
Nobody has to teach me the rules for the games the girls and I are playing! Oh ho ho ho ho!
If you didn't take a rank in Knowledge (gambling) then it would just be your INT modifier, yes.
You can play untrained, but obviously anyone that has put ranks into gambling would have an advantage.
I tell you what, just to throw a curve into all this, how about we add Bluff and Sense Motive checks into all this?! Crazy, I know! Ha.
Let's say that in a round everyone also makes a Bluff and a Sense Motive roll. You get an extra 2 points added to your DS for each player in which your Bluff is higher than their Sense Motive. Other players would put their Bluff against your Sense Motive and so on. So you might bluff some players that round but not others and you might get bluffed. Make sense? ha. This would obviously only be for the card games.
We will probably have to go through a few rounds and then will even have to make adjustments I'm sure but hopefully it will be fun.
Besides, you are playing on house money!!
Will create another thread for the gambling.
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Hmmm, made a post earlier and apparently failed to hit post.
Although it might clog up the Gameplay/IC thread, I think that keeping everything on one thread is usually better. That way if the DM or anyone else says something that might be important later in the game, we can easily find it. As soon as threads are split, it makes searching a pain and stuff is often missed/forgotten.
I think I have a handle on it. No Knowledge, and Profession is trained only, so Sense Motive and Bluff would at least let Radek get his Wis and Cha mods in there. Or we could just say 'a fun time was had by all and you ride out the next morning'.
My apartment flooded at 2 AM this morning...I'm beyond overwhelmed right now :'( Please don't expect anything of me today and possibly tomorrow. I will get back up to speed ASAP.
My apartment flooded at 2 AM this morning...I'm beyond overwhelmed right now :'( Please don't expect anything of me today and possibly tomorrow. I will get back up to speed ASAP.
Oh wow! Very sorry to hear that. I hope it all gets resolved quickly and easily for you. No worries here, take care of all that. Besides, Talbot is indisposed for the time being anyway. :)
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Hmmm.
1) That sucks, Frogfoot. That sucks more than anything that has sucked before.
2) I've had other DMs talk about how they put up other stuff, like combat or off-topic discussions, in other threads, but I've never done it myself, and I'm curious. I trust Kingmaker DM to not put anything too important in the gambling table-talk, and I can see myself becoming confused if everything is in one thread, and a-ways down the road we want to look up something, but get bogged down in the 'now was this before the gambling 105 posts or after?'
3) If it is okay with you, Radek, I'd like to play out the gambling. Of course there's a large chance that we will lose everything and simply ride out in the morning, but there a chance, however slim, that one of us will have some hot dice and make things...interesting. Besides, KingmakerDM went through the trouble of coming up with the rules, the least we can do is loose big to them. ;)
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Ouch, flooding sucks. When I lived near Chicago, our basement flooded 3-4 times, we tried everything to get it to stop. Finally a friend who wanted to redo the home anyway made an offer and we sold as fast as we could. Now we live on the side of a mountain (large hill) in New Hampshire and if this floods, about 100 million people on the east coast have really big problems.
Also, you will get some base XP for playing and then you will get a % of whatever winnings you might have as bonus XP as well. So there is incentive for playing...
Don't worry, Mark Talbot will also be rewarded for his adventurous night.
I'm working up a better example right now. I'll post soon. Hopefully it will make more sense as I've simplified things a bit I think.
Ok, so here's how 'The Bear and The Bee' will be played. We have three players: Tom, Dick and Harry
Tom - 1st Level Expert
INT: 13; WIS: 12; CHA: 10
Knowledge (Gambling): 1 rank (+2)
Bluff: 1 rank (cs): (+4)
Sense Motive: 1 rank (cs): (+5)
Dick - 1st Level Rogue (Gambler)
INT: 14; WIS: 13; CHA: 12
Knowledge (Gambling): 1 rank (cs): +6
Professions (Gambler): 1 rank (cs): +5
Bluff: 1 rank (cs): +5
Sense Motive: 1 rank (cs): +5
+2 Synergy bonus with Knowledge (Gambling) and Profession (Gambler)
Harry - 1st Level Commoner
INT: 13; WIS: 10; CHA: 12
Knowledge (Gambling): 1 rank: +2
Bluff: 1 rank: +2
Sense Motive: 1 rank: +1
1. Every player ante's in 5 gp (15 in pot)
2. Every player makes a Knowledge (Gambling skill check) - if you don't have any ranks in it then your bonus is just your INT bonus.
Player with the highest number wins this phase. They add their roll + bonus to their DS (Harry adds 20 to his DS. Tom and Dick add nothing to theirs)
DS currently: Tom: 0; Dick: 0; Harry: 20
3. Every player makes a Bluff and Sense Motive roll and compare Bluff against other player Sense Motive. If you beat that player's SM you get +2 to your DS. For every 5 you beat them you get another +2.
Tom's Bluff beats Dicks' SM (14>13) so he gets +2 to DS.
Tom's Bluff beats Harry's SM (14>7) so he gets +2 to DS and another +2 for being 7 over. So Tom's DS is now (0+2+2+2)=6
Dick's Bluff did not beat either Tom (6<15) or Harry (6<7) so he gets nothing added to his DS (still 0).
Harry's Bluff did not beat either Tom (6<15) or Dick (6<13) so he gets nothing added to his DS (still 20).
At the end of this phase the DS's are: Tom: 6; Dick: 0; Harry: 20.
4. Every player gets to bet if they want.
Tom decides that he is bluffing both other players well so he raises 5 gp. Dick puts in the 5 to stay in but he doesn't raise. Harry is confident but he doesn't want to appear too confident so he puts in the 5 to stay in but doesn't raise either. Pot now has 30 gp in it.
5. Now we move to Hand 2.
Process would be the same except no ante.
Knowledge rolls:
Harry wins again so he adds 15 to his DS (now 35).
Bluff and SM checks:
Results:
Tom bluffs Harry (10>3): +2 and +2 for being 7 more = +4 to DS (10).
Dick bluffs Harry (6>3): +2 to his DS (2)
Harry bluffs Dick (19>18): +2 to his DS (37)
Wagers:
Next player in line gets to go first.
Dick wants to try and scare the others so he raises 10.
Harry feels pretty darn good and sees the 10 and raises another 5.
Dick puts in the 5 to stay in.
Tom puts in 15 to stay in.
Pot now 75 (30 + 45).
End of Hand 2.
Game proceeds through 5 Hands. Whoever has the highest DS at the end of the 5 hands wins. Any player can drop out at any point.
In case of ties on rolls, the player with the higher modifier wins the tie.
Any questions?
Process for each hand is basically this:
1. Ante (only in 1st Hand)
2. Make Knowledge or Profession rolls, whichever is applicable. Determine Results.
3. Make Bluff and Sense Motive rolls. Determine Results.
4. Place any bets.
That's it. At end of 5 Hands, player with highest DS wins the pot!
I like the rules, DM, but it basically boils down to winning the first roll on each hand. The bonuses you can get from Bluff and Sense Motive checks hardly matter compared to getting to add the entire roll and bonus from that first roll.
Which is fine- it makes sense that professional gamblers would be good at this, and people around a table with ranks in the profession or knowledge skills would get some benefit from the Bluff and Sense Motive rolls. I'm just saying that each hand pretty much just comes down to winning that first roll.
Radek is going to play flamboyantly and badly, but will thoroughly enjoy himself until he loses all of his credit and is forced to seek solace in the arms of a friendly woman upstairs. Poor guy. ;)
Yes, you are right but I'm hoping it will be closer than that. We can adjust if we need to.
I created a thread for the gambling. Let's post there to keep the gameplay thread here clear. If the gambling goes on a while I don't want it to clutter up the gameplay thread here. I don't think anything important will be revealed in the gambling thread so we should be ok.
Here is the Link.
If any of you know how to link to this campaign, please let me know.
Feel free to make new rolls in the gaming thread and put them under spoilers please!
Maybe it would make more sense if every player adds in their first roll to their DS? That would take care of that problem of that first roll being so important each hand. Then the Bluff and SM comes more into play.
Let's make that change!
That change makes sense. Professional or Knowledge-able gamblers would have an advantage in that they'd have bigger bonuses to the rolls but it would give the B/SM checks more of an impact.
I don't think you can link more threads than the ones listed in the tabs. I'd just post the link like you already did; maybe add a link on the main campaign tab so we don't have to search or scroll to find it.
Just thought of this- could be fun would be to add a really high DC Sleight of Hand check (to see if they can successfully palm/switch cards) with PC/NPC Perception rolls if anybody wants to try to cheat.
Yes, I will try and create some checks for cheating in the future. Let's see how this goes first. I'm assuming that no one wants to cheat while in the Ruby Guesthouse... It wouldn't be good at all...:)
Ok, so taking suggestions on the fly, let's go ahead and reveal our Bluff and Sense Motive checks to all players. That will at least let you calculate what your bonus is from your bluff vs another player's sense motive. Add that to your roll that only you should know and you then have your DS.
From the first round, here were the rolls for the NPC's:
Theo Bluff: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (1) + 4 = 5
Theo SM: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (12) + 5 = 17
Deangelo Bluff: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (8) + 5 = 13
Deangelo SM: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (4) + 5 = 9
Harrison Bluff: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (2) + 2 = 4
Harrison SM: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (7) + 1 = 8
So, as I've calculated it, here were your bonuses from Hand 1:
Radek: +8
Kara: +12
Pjiana: +16
When your bluff beats another person's Sense Motive by, say 8, you get +4 for that (+2 for winning and +4 for being 5 or more over. The other 3 are just lost. Beating someone by 12 would net you (2 + (2*2) = 6 and the other 2 are just lost. Hope that makes sense.
The flooding does indeed suck! I hope it is salvageable and you didn't get too much damage. :(
Also, I want to try a hand at this too. I've had a flurry of new job responsibilities and catch up homework lately, so I'll post more tonight.
Bryn, you will have to wait until they finish the full 5 hands but go ahead and post watching. I'm sure we'll go more than 1 game so we'll get you in on the next one.
Can't wait to see how our resident arrogant sorcerer handles gambling!
Hope you get to catch up on the homework as well!
Is there any objection to making it more like Texas Hold Em and having a 3-card flop so we only have to make 3 hands worth of rolls?
Mind you, it could still be mized up more, like starting out with a 1-card reveal, then two of 2-cards.
Jus' sayin'. =)
Sure. I'm open to anything that would make it more enjoyable. I've only ever watched Texas Hold Em, and even then it's been a while, so I forgot exactly how it goes. I didn't want to Google it at work.
The number of cards and such are just fluff at this point but you are saying make this 3rd hand the last?
Anyone have any objections to that?
It would mean getting Bryn in earlier... Would also keep you big bettors from losing too much money in one game!
3 hands sounds good to me. It could go:
-Each player gets 2 hole cards. Bet.
-Dealer deals the flop (3 cards). Bet.
-Dealer deals the river (1 card). Bet.
So it's 3 hands to play. There's another card dealt in Texas Hold 'Em, for a total of 7 (2 in the hole and 5 shared) for each player, but I like the 3 hands idea with a total of 6 cards (2 in the hole and 4 shared).
Hey, real life is attacking big time right now. The gambling mini game sounds fun but to much to keep track of for me at the moment. I think Avery will just stay at the bar and eat and drink for the rest of the night, maybe play his fiddle a bit and not play any games.
Hey, real life is attacking big time right now. The gambling mini game sounds fun but to much to keep track of for me at the moment. I think Avery will just stay at the bar and eat and drink for the rest of the night, maybe play his fiddle a bit and not play any games.
No worries, take care of the RL stuff, it's more important anyway. Hope it levels out for you.
We will probably do another round or two of cards and then Monday we'll get rolling with the next phase which will be to head down and negotiate the goods in you will be transporting and escorting. We'll wait until Monday because Mark is also dealing with some RL stuff as well right now.
Thanks, it's appreciated. I should be fully up to speed again soon - tonight is the carpet installation, we move back in tomorrow morning.
Great. Best of luck with the move!
Can we assume the party members had the 'this is what I can do, this is where I should be in the marching/watch order, etc' talk already? I figure Radek should be the party scout in wilderness settings, while Avery does it indoors. Plus he's pretty useless at range at this level, so he needs to be close to the bad guys.
I don't think anybody has darkvision, so we can just split up the low-light vision PCs among the watches. Oh, wait, halflings don't get low-light, do they? So that's just the 2 half-elves who can sort of see in the dark. And they're both casters, so 1 can take first watch and 1 can take last watch so they get their sleep time in. Radek just said he wakes up early, so he can take last watch.