Quarterstaff Master clarification


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I know there has been a lot of talk about getting quarterstaff to work with weapon finesse. And so far that is not possible, understood. In the talk of making this happen someone suggested getting Quarterstaff Master.
This feat will not make this happen but the feat from Ultimate Magic. - 2011 reads...

Quarterstaff Master

You can wield a quarterstaff as either a two-handed or one-handed weapon.

Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (quarterstaff ), base attack bonus +5.

Benefit: By employing a number of different stances and techniques, you can wield a quarterstaff as a one-handed weapon. At the start of your turn, you decide whether or not you are going to wield the quarterstaff as a one-handed or two-handed weapon. When you wield it as a one-handed weapon, your other hand is free, and you cannot use the staff as a double weapon. You can take the feat Weapon Specialization in the quarterstaff even if you have no levels in fighter.

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http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qda

But and faq from 2013 states...

Two-Handed Weapons: What kind of action is it to remove your hand from a two-handed weapon or re-grab it with both hands?

Both are free actions. For example, a wizard wielding a quarterstaff can let go of the weapon with one hand as a free action, cast a spell as a standard action, and grasp the weapon again with that hand as a free action; this means the wizard is still able to make attacks of opportunity with the weapon (which requires using two hands).

As with any free action, the GM may decide a reasonable limit to how many times per round you can release and re-grasp the weapon (one release and re-grasp per round is fair).

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My question is that since the change in the rules of how the item is handled as per the faq is there a change for the quarterstaff master feat?

The I know the feat allows one to use a Quarterstaff as a one handed weapon, but the feat looks that it was designed as a work-around before the quarterstaff , and other 2-handed weapons were fixed in 2013 for getting a free hand.


I dont see why there should be a change. The FAQ is about two handed weapons not making a wizards staff a terrible trap. Quarter staff Master allow you to in the begenning of your turn to decide if you want to use the staff like a staff or like sone sort of club like thing. There are no rule change in the FAQ. Edit: the feat is mostly for the staff magus.

Dark Archive

Cap. Darling wrote:
..... The FAQ is about two handed weapons not making a wizards staff a terrible trap. Quarter staff Master allow you to in the begenning of your turn to decide if you want to use the staff like a staff or like sone sort of club like thing...

The feat also looks to be designed for not making the staff a trap. Also +5 BAB and Weapon focus seem like a lot to make it into a club, it is not like we are going to start dual wielding a quarterstaff in each hand. I understand the rational of the feat to free a hand but the faq already does that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't see the change you're alluding to. The creation of the Quarterstaff Mastery feat wasn't for the benefit of wizards who don't get into frontline combat. It's sole purpose was to allow the creation of the Staff Magus archetype. It's creation as a feat allows Paizo to have it around for possible future uses in other venues, but the Staff Magus is it's main purpose in order to allow for spell combat.

Dark Archive

That may be why I need the clarification, why would you want to wield a quarter staff as a one-handed weapon?


While its a 1-handed weapon you can use it when you use spell combat or two-weapon fighting

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Souphin wrote:
That may be why I need the clarification, why would you want to wield a quarter staff as a one-handed weapon?

Read the class description of the magus and then come back. I'll wait.

Dark Archive

Since releasing the hand is a free action can't a magnus do that without the feat.
Strike and free the hand to cast a spell that turn


Spell Combat requires that you keep one hand completely free for casting while you use the weapon in your other hand to engage in a full attack. This means that without this feat the Staff Magus couldn't use his primary weapon, the quarterstaff, with his primary class ability, Spell Combat. He needs this feat to be functional.

You are correct that the prerequisites are harsh, but that is for everyone else. A Staff Magus gets the feat at first level without having to meet the prerequisites. The part about qualifying for Weapon Specialization is important because a Staff Magus trades out the Fighter Training feature of a standard Magus and would otherwise never qualify for Weapon Specialization.

Dark Archive

The act of making all attacks and casting a spell, Spell Combat, is a full action. According to the FAQ the magnus can free one hand as a free action. This can be done during the full round action of Spell Combat.


Souphin wrote:
The act of making all attacks and casting a spell is a full action. According to the FAQ the magnus can free one hand as a free action during the full round action of Spell Combat to cast.

But without the feat, the quarterstaff is still a two-handed weapon, not a light or one-handed weapon as required by Spell Combat.


Souphin wrote:
The act of making all attacks and casting a spell, Spell Combat, is a full action. According to the FAQ the magnus can free one hand as a free action. This can be done during the full round action of Spell Combat.

But he need the hand free to cast the Spell. If he for some reason dont use the rule about it needing to BA a one handed or ligth weapon he is using he still need to follow the rule about the hand being free in that full round action. So no two handing stuff when Spell combating.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Removed a post and the replies to it. Don't be a jerk.


Souphin wrote:
The act of making all attacks and casting a spell, Spell Combat, is a full action. According to the FAQ the magnus can free one hand as a free action. This can be done during the full round action of Spell Combat.

Souphin, I think the confusion is arising from your interpretation of how Spell Combat works. So I am going to ask you a different question to try to clarify your position.

Do you believe (based on the FAQ that you have quoted) that a Magus can use Spell Combat while fighting with a Greatsword?

Dark Archive

Gisher wrote:


Do you believe (based on the FAQ that you have quoted) that a Magus can use Spell Combat while fighting with a Greatsword?

That is the thing, just on the faq yes, but the spell combat clearly says using a one handed weapon. But that was before someone , including the magnus, can free a hand as a free action.

I'm actually asking this question as a non-magnus seeing a reason to get this feat, as it is no unless you want to dual-wield quarter staffs. It looks to take the slot of a feat in the book, but is really just an archetype class feature and not a feat.

A non-magus spell caster with a +6 bab can attack , free a hand to cast a quickened spell and then make the 2nd attack.

I am just wondering if this feat would change because of the faq, that was my original question.

Dark Archive

You've always been able to take your hand off your weapon and cast a spell. This doesn't change the fact that a Magus 100% cannot do this, and combine it with his Spellcombat/Spellstrike combo.

So, no, you can't finesse a quarterstaff.


Souphin wrote:
Gisher wrote:


Do you believe (based on the FAQ that you have quoted) that a Magus can use Spell Combat while fighting with a Greatsword?
That is the thing, just on the faq yes, but the spell combat clearly says using a one handed weapon. But that was before someone , including the magnus, can free a hand as a free action.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So imagine that I am a first level magus who wants to use Spell Combat to cast a magic missile spell and also hit someone with my greatsword. For the moment, let's ignore the restriction saying that I can't use a two-handed weapon.

So I start Spell Combat (a full round action) with my sword held in my right hand and my left hand free. I am going to accomplish two tasks: cast the spell and hit someone with my sword. Please tell me the sequence in which you would like to perform those acts, and tell me what each hand is doing during this process.

I really think this will enable us to clear up the confusion.

Dark Archive

Seranov wrote:
So, no, you can't finesse a quarterstaff.

That is very much understood, a discussion from that raised curiosity about the validity of Quarterstaff Master as a feat.


Gisher wrote:
Souphin wrote:
Gisher wrote:


Do you believe (based on the FAQ that you have quoted) that a Magus can use Spell Combat while fighting with a Greatsword?
That is the thing, just on the faq yes, but the spell combat clearly says using a one handed weapon. But that was before someone , including the magnus, can free a hand as a free action.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So imagine that I am a first level magus who wants to use Spell Combat to cast a magic missile spell and also hit someone with my greatsword. For the moment, let's ignore the restriction saying that I can't use a two-handed weapon.

So I start Spell Combat (a full round action) with my sword held in my right hand and my left hand free. I am going to accomplish two tasks: cast the spell and hit someone with my sword. Please tell me the sequence in which you would like to perform those acts, and tell me what each hand is doing during this process.

I really think this will enable us to clear up the confusion.

Easy, when using spell combat, you are using your off hand. You cannot use your off-hand for something else when you use it for fighting with a two handed weapon. Spell combat specifically calls out using your off hand.


Komoda wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Souphin wrote:
Gisher wrote:


Do you believe (based on the FAQ that you have quoted) that a Magus can use Spell Combat while fighting with a Greatsword?
That is the thing, just on the faq yes, but the spell combat clearly says using a one handed weapon. But that was before someone , including the magnus, can free a hand as a free action.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So imagine that I am a first level magus who wants to use Spell Combat to cast a magic missile spell and also hit someone with my greatsword. For the moment, let's ignore the restriction saying that I can't use a two-handed weapon.

So I start Spell Combat (a full round action) with my sword held in my right hand and my left hand free. I am going to accomplish two tasks: cast the spell and hit someone with my sword. Please tell me the sequence in which you would like to perform those acts, and tell me what each hand is doing during this process.

I really think this will enable us to clear up the confusion.

Easy, when using spell combat, you are using your off hand. You cannot use your off-hand for something else when you use it for fighting with a two handed weapon. Spell combat specifically calls out using your off hand.

Ok, but it's Souphin's answer that I want to see.

Dark Archive

3 Examples--

1 - A wizard is jumped by a pack of goblins but luckily he has is greatsword in hand. On his turn he swings his great sword and then quick-cast magic missile.

2 - Druid armed with a a quarterstaff is also in this mix. On his turn he attacks twice with the quarterstaff , then quick-cast heal light wounds at the end of his turn. ( this is why I questioned quarterstaff master)

3 - A Cleric happens to be in this same fight with his allied wizard and is also armed with a 2 handed weapon but also has a BAB of 6. In his turn he swings his axe, then (using the faq) quick-cast hold person on the goblin boss, and lastly striking that foe.

None of these are magnus situations but do what the magnus is going

Magnus example

Magnus with greatsword is attacking and (using the faq) can full attack then quick-cast a spell

But according to the wording he cannot use Spell Combat


Souphin wrote:

3 Examples--

1 - A wizard is jumped by a pack of goblins but luckily he has is greatsword in hand. On his turn he swings his great sword and then quick-cast magic missile.

2 - Druid armed with a a quarterstaff is also in this mix. On his turn he attacks twice with the quarterstaff , then quick-cast heal light wounds at the end of his turn.

3 - A Cleric happens to be in this same fight with his allied wizard and is also armed with a 2 handed weapon but also has a BAB of 6. In his turn he swings his axe, then (using the faq) quick-cast hold person on the goblin boss, and lastly striking that foe.

Those all work fine, but none of them is the situation that I asked you to describe. Using Spell Combat and using Quicken Spell are not the same thing at all.


On second thought, never mind. You either don't want to have a conversation or don't know how to have one. I've wasted enough time on this.

Dark Archive

Souphin wrote:
1 - A wizard is jumped by a pack of goblins but luckily he has is greatsword in hand. On his turn he swings his great sword and then quick-cast magic missile.

Wizard has burned his standard and swift actions.

Souphin wrote:
2 - Druid armed with a a quarterstaff is also in this mix. On his turn he attacks twice with the quarterstaff , then quick-cast heal light wounds at the end of his turn. ( this is why I questioned quarterstaff master)

Druid has burned his standard, move and swift actions.

Souphin wrote:
3 - A Cleric happens to be in this same fight with his allied wizard and is also armed with a 2 handed weapon but also has a BAB of 6. In his turn he swings his axe, then (using the faq) quick-cast hold person on the goblin boss, and lastly striking that foe.

Cleric has burned his standard, move and swift actions.

Souphin wrote:
Magnus with greatsword is attacking and (using the faq) can full attack then quick-cast a spell

Magus has burned his standard and move action, assuming you are talking about using Spell Combat + Spellstrike.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gisher wrote:
Souphin wrote:
Gisher wrote:


Do you believe (based on the FAQ that you have quoted) that a Magus can use Spell Combat while fighting with a Greatsword?
That is the thing, just on the faq yes, but the spell combat clearly says using a one handed weapon. But that was before someone , including the magnus, can free a hand as a free action.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. So imagine that I am a first level magus who wants to use Spell Combat to cast a magic missile spell and also hit someone with my greatsword. For the moment, let's ignore the restriction saying that I can't use a two-handed weapon.

So I start Spell Combat (a full round action) with my sword held in my right hand and my left hand free. I am going to accomplish two tasks: cast the spell and hit someone with my sword. Please tell me the sequence in which you would like to perform those acts, and tell me what each hand is doing during this process.

I really think this will enable us to clear up the confusion.

When you start a rules question with "lets ignore the rule", you're doing just the opposite. Paizo went to extreme lengths to specifically exclude using a two handed weapon with spell combat. In order to creat the Staff Magus, they needed to create a feat that would allow him to use a specific weapon normally used only with two hands to require only one.


Amusingly, #3 is outright illegal and #4 requires a very stupid Magus.

For #3, there's no legal attack sequence in the game for attack-cast-attack, barring a Mythic ability to attack as a swift action.

The Cleric can do this:

1. Free action remove hand from weapon
2. Swift action cast a Quickened Spell
3. Free action place hand on weapon
4. Full attack action

But there's no possible way for him to do as described. Realistically he's not even doing the above sequence with a BAB of +6, since Quicken is a +4 metamagic. Possible here only if he decides Quickened Cantrip is a good idea (it isn't) or has taken metamagic-reduction traits (and thus is doing something wrong in this scenario regardless).

#4, a Magus can never, under any conditions*, attack with a two-handed weapon and use Spell Combat. Thus, for this maneuver to be possible the Magus needs to be not using Spell Combat, but rather casting a Quickened Spell. That is an idiotic use of the Magus' time. He'd be far better off with a one-handed weapon and Spell Combat, or better a one-handed weapon and Spell Combat and Quicken Spell.

Scenarios #1 also requires a fairly dumb Wizard, but he's not as idiotic as the Magus.

The point of Quarterstaff Master is to treat your Quarterstaff as a one-handed weapon. You are strictly advantaged over those without the feat in that they have no capability to treat a Quarterstaff as a one-handed weapon. Pretty straightforward, honestly.


Quarterstaff Master+Weapon Versatility+1 level of Swashbuckler gets you Weapon Finesse with a quarterstaff. That's something you can't do without the feat that doesn't involve the Magus in any way. Also using a quarterstaff with a shield, or Crane Style, or Deflect Arows.
There are many reasons to want to one-hand a quarterstaff.


Weapon Versatility is kind of debatable for accessing Swashbuckler Finesse. I'd expect table variation on that one.

Dark Archive

Gisher wrote:
On second thought, never mind. You either don't want to have a conversation or don't know how to have one. I've wasted enough time on this.

???

My question was to see if the faq changes the feat.

Scarab Sages

The faq does not change the need for the feat, as it does nothing to change spell combat. Spell combat is a special full round action that is not the same a casting a quickened spell.


Souphin wrote:
Gisher wrote:
On second thought, never mind. You either don't want to have a conversation or don't know how to have one. I've wasted enough time on this.

???

My question was to see if the faq changes the feat.

The FAQ ditent change any rules, why would it change a feat that it dosent even mention?

The short answer is no.


Souphin wrote:
Seranov wrote:
So, no, you can't finesse a quarterstaff.

That is very much understood, a discussion from that raised curiosity about the validity of Quarterstaff Master as a feat.

This feat allows you to use your quarterstaff alongside a shield or while you need one hand for something else. Like when grappled. And it allows you to learn weapon specialization (quarterstaff) without being a fighter.

With quarterstaff master it is easier to build a martial pc using a quarterstaff and still be viable.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

To clarify...

You can cast a spell (let's go with the classic Shocking Hands) while holding the quarterstaff in one hand. With Spell Strike, you can then two-hand the quarterstaff (free action) and attack with it, touching off the spell through the weapon.

With Spell Combat, if you didn't declare the Quarterstaff one-handed (with the feat Quarterstaff Master), you can either cast a spell or attack with the two handed weapon, not both.

The reason is that you need a free hand to essentially Two Weapon fight with Spell Combat, with a weapon in one hand and a spell in the other. Now since the spell is a singular casting, you only get the one attack with that spell at higher levels, hence the separate ability and explanation (Spell Combat) and the explanation of having to use a light or one handed weapon.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Quarterstaff Master lets a staff magus get Weapon Specialization at level 3 if you allow retraining:

Level 1 - take any feat, get Quarterstaff Master as bonus feat
Level 2 - you now have BAB +1 so retrain your any feat into Weapon Focus(quarterstaff)
Level 3 - you ignore fighter level requirements on Weapon Specialization so take it now.

Dark Archive

Thank you to the non-trolls for answering the question. The is rule as written and I'll leave it as that.

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