So I got killed by a shadow. I am told that restoration can't save me because I'm no longer a "creature" to be touched once I die. So how do you deal with this? A shadow touches you and you die outright with no solutions whatsoever? I have a lot of trouble accepting this, press help me out.
I can find nothing to support that I no longer meet the requirements of "creature touched" in the rules and I would really like my PFS dude to keep on truckin'.
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Restoration can't save you no more than a cure light wounds can save someone that's died from normal damage.
Once your spawn (the shadow that you become after you were killed) is destroyed you can be brought back via resurrection. Raise dead won't cut it in this case.
Restoration cannot restore your lost strength, you are dead. It cannot save you from becoming a shadow.
What you want is to have the spell Sanctify Corpse (Ultimate Magic) cast upon you before you turn into a Shadow and then you can be raised via Raise Dead normally.
However, since this is PFS most likely nobody thought to bring such a scroll and the time for this solution is most likely elapsed in which case you will need Resurrection.
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Did the shadow damage your strength to equal to or more than your actual Strength score? If so, yes, you're dead, and in 1d4 rounds your dead body becomes a shadow itself under the control of the shadow that killed you. This makes you ineligible for most forms of raising from the dead. Shadows are really tough and a GM should use them sparingly unless she and her players are OK with the idea of a tough, gritty game with lots of PC death.
Solutions: Resurrection. True Resurrection. Wish. Miracle. A GM might allow the shadow your PC became to regain free will if the shadow that killed you is destroyed, but having a shadow as a PC is very disruptive to the game and the GM probably wouldn't let you keep the shadow as a PC. Edit: nevermind, the GM is constrained by PFS rules, so won't be able to do that.
A shadow shouldn't be able to kill you in a single shot, unless it was able to confirm a crit, or your Strength was 6 or less to begin with.
That's the rules, dude. If there was no risk of death, the game wouldn't be as fun. If you have the prestige or the funds, get resurrected; otherwise, start a new character, and remember count the shadows.
Hey who turned out the lights?
I got hit by two advanced shadows in the surprise round for max damage.
Sucks to be you, although I kinda wonder what the situation was that two shadows managed to get to you, and attack you, in a surprise round.
I guess they could have been hanging out in walls waiting to ambush you.
I read the thing on death that makes the lack of healing make sense. Things were worded stupid with people telling me that I become an object when I'm dead.
Does destroying the shadow before I raise as a shadow prevent me from doing so?
Sucks to be you, although I kinda wonder what the situation was that two shadows managed to get to you, and attack you, in a surprise round.
I guess they could have been hanging out in walls waiting to ambush you.
I opened a thing and they were just hanging out in there.
Sorry to hear that. It might have been a little aggressive for the GM to have both shadows attack you, but it may be that the tactics of the encounter require that, and objectively speaking, focusing fire on one target is the most logical, optimal tactic for such creatures to use. Did the rest of the party survive?
No, you will still become a shadow although not under control of the shadow that killed you.
Create Spawn (Su) A humanoid creature killed by a shadow’s Strength damage becomes a shadow under the control of its killer in 1d4 rounds.
BaconBastard, so they were immediately on the other side of the door? Yup, that sucks.
Yeah, which scenario was that in?
Ouch.
I'm thinking my PFS characters need to carry an oil of Sanctify Corpse around their neck..
Does destroying the shadow before I raise as a shadow prevent me from doing so?
It does not. There we go, surprise round and you're dead forever. Not spending the insane 77 prestige to bring him back. If I spend the gold then my character just sucks forever.
RIP Jasper Percival Williams
Yeah, which scenario was that in?
Ouch.
I'm thinking my PFS characters need to carry an oil of Sanctify Corpse around their neck..
I think only True Resurrection will work. Since if you say get turned into a wight, there is still a corpse to work with but a shadow just vanishes when destroyed so no body for Resurrection.
MannyGoblin, there is nothing that indicates the corpse vanishes.
So, is there any real way to deal with the str/con instant death? There must be some kind of solution to this.
BaconBastard, have more Strength or Constitution.
Usually this shouldn't be an "instant" issue unless you tanked the stat.
2 advanced shadows doing max stat damage would be 16 str damage.
Don't need a tanked str to get killed by that.
Even an 18-20 base Strength martial would be limping away from that, assuming they could even walk with the damage they took.
That being said, shadows suck to fight. All their attacks focus Touch AC, your hit points don't mean crap, and even if you're a max-Strength martial, you can get defeated really fast if you don't have some form of combatting enemies like them (CAGM + Stunning Assault is one such combo). The fact that the OP basically got 1-rounded by super shadows is quite a bummer. Unfortunately, it is a legitimate "Rocks Fall, You Die" on the GM's behalf, as it was essentially a creature-oriented trap.
The normal rule for ability damage is that when you hit 0, you become unconscious (unless it's Constitution damage, which results in death). Of course, Shadows circumvent that rule because reasons, so in any case, the OP is boned.
From here, if the OP wishes to continue playing PFS, he can only start a new character sheet. The other alternatives are to either play in a home game, or find a different hobby. Of course, I only suggest the latter as an absolute last resort...
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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2 advanced shadows doing max stat damage would be 16 str damage.
Don't need a tanked str to get killed by that.
Advanced Shadows or Greater Shadows?
Advanced Shadows (Shadow with the advanced template) should still be doing 1d6, which means max damage on 2 attacks is 12.
That's rough, but not enought to take out the average frontliner.
Edit: Given the scenario goes up to 11, I'm guessing it was greater shadows.
I got hit by two advanced shadows in the surprise round for max damage.
Duuuude. I feel ya.
Correct me if I'm wrong, a Shadow (or any incaporeal thing) can not pass through a force effect.
A character with Mage Armor can not be "touched" by a Shadow. The CR of Shadows are lower because a 1st level spell can make them ineffective.
It sucks that your guy died, but if you where prepared, it would not have happened.
If he was the first person through the door he was likely a martial character and would not have Mage Armor cast on him (because, y'know, he has actual armor).
Hero Points? Spending two prevents character death. No idea if they are used in PFS, as I do not run in Society games anymore...
Assistant Developer
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You can still return with resurrection. True resurrection is not necessary. Hopefully with the gold at the end of the scenario, you'll be able to come back.
You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed.
If you're looking for a hard counter to shadows, death ward works well.
The subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled negative energy.
and
A greater shadow's touch deals 1d8 points of Strength damage to a living creature. This is a negative energy effect.
It doesn't make you immune, it just allows the AC bonus from the mage armor to apply to the incorporeal touch attack, unlike the AC bonus from normal armor.Correct me if I'm wrong, a Shadow (or any incaporeal thing) can not pass through a force effect.
A character with Mage Armor can not be "touched" by a Shadow. The CR of Shadows are lower because a 1st level spell can make them ineffective.It sucks that your guy died, but if you where prepared, it would not have happened.
Thanks _Ozy_, I see how I miss interpreted that.
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So, is there any real way to deal with the str/con instant death? There must be some kind of solution to this.
Get a better DM, one who understands that instantly, permanently killing a character with no recourse is unacceptable. I'm a big fan of letting the dice fall where they may, but setting up unavoidable, instant-death scenarios is something I outgrew when I was in high school.
Headfirst, this was apparently a PFS scenario. The encounters are designed by Paizo and cannot be changed by the GM.
If paizo designed this encounter so that two Shadows were on the opposite side of the door then that is what they designed.
The problem is, the Shadows would become aware of anyone adjacent to the door before they opened the door. (They have awareness through 5' of material as per the incorporeal rules.)
Because one side is aware and the other was not that creates a surprise round...poor guy.
In the future, let the wizard open the door with a fancy zero level spell. Then, whoever is attacking has to actually move and that may reduce the likelihood of surprise round deaths.
I haven't read this all, but got called out on my thread accusing me of making two threads and that it wouldn't change the rules. I was at the table, and the paladin 2/ sorcerer 8 with 15 or 12 str (I forget) str fully min/maxed Jasper Williams who is obviously totally op as hell detected evil, then detected magic in this scenario mentioned above on some brass stone door stuff, and detected nothing causing his curiosity to open the door. Somehow this sprung a surprise round after the door had opened, which I would think he'd see the thing(s), but surprise round. Either both shadows where in this 5ft square, or the one inside surprised, and the other decided to 5ft out and surprise. Greater shadows, and an 8 then 7 were rolled, and we have a collapsed Jasper. From that point it was like, "what is the answer to no save awful" because flat footed touch double suppose shadow bros. isn't something we've experienced.
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So, is there any real way to deal with the str/con instant death? There must be some kind of solution to this.Get a better DM, one who understands that instantly, permanently killing a character with no recourse is unacceptable. I'm a big fan of letting the dice fall where they may, but setting up unavoidable, instant-death scenarios is something I outgrew when I was in high school.
Downtalking other people or their play preferences because you don't like a style of play that is subjective is not really not that "non-high schoolish". Better advice would have been to make sure you are at a table where you and the GM/group enjoy the same style of play.
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IMO: All Shadows, Greater Shadows, and variants thereof should be permanently banned from everything.
I have never been a part of nor read about a fun, satisfying encounter with these creatures (combat or otherwise). And that's really the only requirement for a creature. (For the record, I've both used them as a DM and had them used against me as a player. Neither went well.)
As for the OP: That sucks, and if I were a DM in that position I would've fudged to make sure that didn't kill you. Take you out of the fight? Sure, fair enough, but dying in the surprise round to a creature that even a supremely perceptive character probably wouldn't notice is completely unfair, regardless of what the module says. Sadly, you're stuck and must either pay for resurrection or write an obituary.
TL;DR - Read the last sentence.
We've faced the shadows of insane awful a few times recently, and they've terrible. We'd dread then being in any scenario why blissfully ignorant new players have no idea. We didn't know it got this bad, and we thought we had all our bases covered too. Can't win em all.
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Headfirst, this was apparently a PFS scenario. The encounters are designed by Paizo and cannot be changed by the GM.
If paizo designed this encounter so that two Shadows were on the opposite side of the door then that is what they designed.
The problem is, the Shadows would become aware of anyone adjacent to the door before they opened the door. (They have awareness through 5' of material as per the incorporeal rules.)
Because one side is aware and the other was not that creates a surprise round...poor guy.
In the future, let the wizard open the door with a fancy zero level spell. Then, whoever is attacking has to actually move and that may reduce the likelihood of surprise round deaths.
Paizo, regrettably, seems to rely on "Rocks fall, you die, now fork over your WBL or deal with Level 1 Suckage again," for the excitement in a lot of scenarios. The problem that this is neither exciting, fails to get us engaged in the game or our characters, and makes PFS an exercise in bashing your head against a brick wall, hoping your GM picks scenarios that don't rely on gimmicks, cheesing it, and cheap tricks to keep people in a perpetual loop of tier 1-2 scenarios.