BaconBastard's page

Well, I'll start with the Core Rulebook initial errata.

Quote:

Pages 316-407 and 573: Damaging spells and items meant to harm PCs do way too much damage for your gear to survive if it could be targeted, so such spells almost never are supposed to be able to damage objects.

Since the math for enemy attacks is at least as much as damaging spells, I expect that those creatures that can damage a PC's armor and weapons are a drastic mistake in game design caused by the game writers not being fully aware of the differences in expectations of the new system.

That said, Armor Innovation doesn't add anything to your armor as far as hardness and HP go. So it would use the Material Statistics table which lists cloth armor as Hardness 1, 4 HP, and lists iron or steel armor as Hardness 9, HP 36.

Thanks, those stats make sense to me.

A player in my group for the Outlaws of Alkenstar AP is an Inventor with the Armor Innovation. I couldn't find anything online or in rules discussion about the Hardness/HP or the Power Armor and it will 100% come up because

If I could be pointed in the right direction that would be awesome, thanks.

I'm looking for an actual thing, if such exists anywhere.

I'm currently running the giant slayer AP, and the group has just finished the first book. There's a room full of random large sized stuff, I was wondering if there's any rules anywhere for resizing non magical items. The book mentions that later they will be able to resize magical items, but what can be done with non magical?

@rysky I attempted multiple times to point this out, but I seemingly need more proof that picking the emotional focus doesn't GIVE you the full emotional focus all the time, including the bonus feat the the phantom gets and other stuff.

I hate that I have to post this because I'm aware that it's wildly incorrect, but apparently I need back up in saying that not only is that interpretation wrong, but that part of the class feature is clearly you choosing the focus that your later abilities will be based off and doesn't give you the emotional focus as it applies to phantoms.

I hate to add this to the debate, but he's trying to argue that the opening line where it says "an id rager chooses one emotional focus to define his core" means that he gets the focus. Just all the time, and that this gives him the feat that the focus gives the phantom at all times as well as other things at all times.

Can I have other people please confirm that the only thing that the first line of id rager does is establish which emotional focus your upcoming abilities will be based off.

Well, the issue is that only applies to pfs and not our home game, and it's not a real errata. So that's problematic.

Quote:

Page 23—An id rager gains only the emotional focus abilities of a phantom, not the base abilities of a phantom, such as slam attacks and armor bonuses.

Also, page 23 of what? Because this is being challenged.

So then, just to double check, he would only get the three focus abilities at the appropriate levels for the atavistic focus he selected?

I'm running a game where a player is using an IdRager (and other stuff) and I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out exactly how the Atavistic Avatar works. What exactly are the "additional powers" gained when you bloodrage?

I believe that the player believes that he gets EVERYTHING that the phantom gets on the chart. Dex/Cha bonus, natural armor bonus, slam attacks, and the other abilities. I feel like there's no way that's right and would love to know what you actually get.

I hate to reanimate this thread, but it's relivant to my current discussion.

What would lead you to believe that it's static? Through feat says "you gain an extra spell slot of the highest spell level that you can cast" when you level up, that highest level changes. I don't understand what would imply that you're stuck with the levels you took it at. If that is the case then it's a very weak feat.

Due to GM madness in an awful place where things made little sense, my charisma permanently became 1. Don't worry about how that happened, that doesn't matter. I worry about how to RP having a charisma of 1.

A quick look through the bestiary the only creatures with a charisma of 1 are oozes, constructs, and SOME plants (assassin vines, giant flytraps and others have more charisma than I do). Based on this I can only imagine that to have 1 charisma you are completely void of personality.

I am a mute, who on the rare occasion that he might speak, would be intentionally arrogant and offensive when he makes his point. Even that seems like too much personality. Does anyone else have any idea on how to RP such a thing? I had hoped that I could RP my way out of the situation, but the RP would involve not RPing... HELP ME!!!!

BaconBastard wrote:

Fergie wrote:

OK, BaconBastard, I'll try one last shot at this, since I really like your name.

What is the wisdom score of a piece of bacon? Cooked or uncooked, it doesn't matter.

Let's just say it was made from a boar.

Fergie, I'm glad that your last shot also does not cite any rules, and that a dead creature is a creature that has the "dead" condition, and that condition doesn't say it effects any of your ability scores in anyway.

You have been bestowed the wisdom of bacon from the sacred text of the CRB.

So... 13 is your answer then?

RAW says sure. Find me a thing in the rules that says that you become an object and then we can stop having intelligent/sentient bacon.

Wanna start splitting hairs with wording? A shadow doesn't kill you, it's strength damage equaling or exceeding your total strength kills you. Since you don't get healed by Breath of Life you still have that damage.

Breath of life just says that if it's been less than a round and you have the HP/con straight, that you're alive again.

Raise dead has specific text regarding "I was killed by stat drain/damage," while Breath of life does not.

Wanna start splitting hairs with wording? A shadow doesn't kill you, it's strength damage equaling or exceeding your total strength kills you. Since you don't get healed by Breath of Life you still have that damage.

Fun fact I just learned by looking it up, Greater Shadow does not create spawn. Ergo Raise Dead would work and would bring you back with 1 strength point.

Cheaper than resurrection, I suppose.

YEESSSSSSS!!!! THANK YOU!!! MY PRECIOUS PRESTIGE!!!

OK, BaconBastard, I'll try one last shot at this, since I really like your name.

What is the wisdom score of a piece of bacon? Cooked or uncooked, it doesn't matter.

Let's just say it was made from a boar.

Fergie, I'm glad that your last shot also does not cite any rules, and that a dead creature is a creature that has the "dead" condition, and that condition doesn't say it effects any of your ability scores in anyway.

You have been bestowed the wisdom of bacon from the sacred text of the CRB.

Personally, Breath of life should work as it is the entire point of the spell.

You would have 0 Str of course upon breathing again. You wouldn't fall back dead (due to shadow str drain), as you already died and had that status ailment cleared. You would just be at 0 str with all that would entail. Shadows wouldn't infinitely be spawning with every casting of Breath of Life as you cartoonishly wake up and die over and over.. common sense is still assumed every edge case cannot be explicitly written, we as reasoning people can fill in the blanks a bit.

GM disallowed something that should have worked (BoL), unless shadows explicitly state breath of life won't work.

I'll tell you right now, they don't say that it doesn't work.

Human Fighter wrote:

What I didn't enjoy was the breath of life not working, and being told "shadows are special, and he's now an object".

While I agree with the result (breath of life not working) I disagree with the 'object' reasoning. My reasoning is that breath of life fixes some hit point damage and in so doing returns you to life if enough was healed. But it does not repair the strength damage done by the shadow. The damage is still more than the characters current strength (bull strength could work here) and the shadow's ability says the creature dies if this is the case. So the character dies again.

The real mystery is if I die again, or I'm just unconscious with 0 STR because the death part got "undone", considering that 0 STR normally doesn't kill you.

To all those saying, "Detect Evil should have worked" -- we don't know what the door was made of other than the OP's description of "some brass stone door stuff"

Detect Evil wrote:

The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

Quite true, this is another reason why I wasn't too upset over that and also why I don't go crazy with trying to detect.

I would rather this thread remain about how to deal with death by shadows and if when you die you become an object (I still don't think you do), rather than about preventative tactics. The issue was that there was no reason to believe that it was a death cabinet.

Detect Evil should have worked. Even so, the Open/Close cantrip (opening doors from a distance) really should be standard operating procedure, perhaps followed by sending an illusion into a room to draw out the ambush (given how often that seems to happen).

3.X and PF seems to focus more on power builds and "kick in the door" style rather than the more cautious approach that I recall from 2E and earlier games. I know my cavalier has been called a coward for asking for an open/close spell (which he isn't; he just has 16 Wis and tons of experience with ambushes).

Human Fighter and I have been called paranoid cowards in a homegame by a guy who likes to walk into rooms, get destroyed, and deplete our precious resources. We are very cautious players because we like to stay alive. Detect spells are awesome and should save me like crazy, unfortunately in my PFS experience these spells are not allowed to function properly.

Human Fighter wrote:

No offense Fergie, but making your point with supportive rule citations would work a lot better.

You would think so right?

Yes, then where I immediately pointed out that Gentle Repose targets a "corpse touched" (not object touched) and that the CRB says that even if the save section says "(object)" it doesn't mean that the spell has to target an object.

EDIT

Additionally you have heavily edited that post adding more irrelevant information, and included "see gentle repose" under your quote the "target, object" section of the CRB, which does not say anything about Gentle Repose and could be confusing/misleading to others reading your post.

Even if all else fails, I still stand by my original statement that it is unlikely for the surprise round to down a PC, as the expected Strength damage by two Greater Shadows is 9.

This was a very unlikely surprise round. I have no issue with the fact that I died. I just have issue with the lack of ways to deal with it. Breath of Life seems that it should work because that's what Breath of life says, I just find it incredible that there are no other options to stop the super death.

BaconBastard wrote:

Fergie wrote:

BaconBastard wrote:

Being unconscious also doesn't change your wisdom score according to all of those sources, so I would imagine that a dead character still has all it's ability scores it just can't do anything because it's dead. I can't find anything in the rules that would lead me to believe otherwise.

OK, sure. But do those scores stay with the body, or the soul, which has departed and is in another plane?

Hint: Reincarnation spell.

That's a weird philosophical question that doesn't have much to do with the rules. That has rules for how Reincarnate works, but it still doesn't say that a dead character's ability scores go away.

My point is that the characters physical body is an inanimate object, with no wisdom score - thus an object.

I still have found nothing to support this. Please find me something to support this.

Shadow dude hits you, and you drop. Roll 1d4. Breath of life happens, and rules say enough hp/no death effects = you're alive. Congratulations, you no longer have the dead condition. Enjoy your helpless state of 0 str.

If you're an object breath of life doesn't work. Raise dead wouldn't work nor would resurrection etc. You're not an object, but a living breathing man who deserves to be respected and loved just like everybody else!

It's gunna be rough, but the Steven Hawking lifestyle would probably better suit my character.

BaconBastard wrote:

Being unconscious also doesn't change your wisdom score according to all of those sources, so I would imagine that a dead character still has all it's ability scores it just can't do anything because it's dead. I can't find anything in the rules that would lead me to believe otherwise.

OK, sure. But do those scores stay with the body, or the soul, which has departed and is in another plane?

Hint: Reincarnation spell.

That's a weird philosophical question that doesn't have much to do with the rules. That has rules for how Reincarnate works, but it still doesn't say that a dead character's ability scores go away.

BaconBastard wrote:

Fergie wrote:

Basically it boils down to -

Do you have a wisdom score?
Yes = Creature.
No= Object.

When you are dead, you have no wisdom score.

Please cite where it says that a dead character has no wisdom score. Because it doesn't say that in the injury and death, conditions, or the ability scores section.

Just out of curiosity, what do YOU think a dead characters wisdom score is? He isn't "unconscious" so it isn't zero...

Being unconscious also doesn't change your wisdom score according to all of those sources, so I would imagine that a dead character still has all it's ability scores it just can't do anything because it's dead. I can't find anything in the rules that would lead me to believe otherwise.

Basically it boils down to -

Do you have a wisdom score?
Yes = Creature.
No= Object.

When you are dead, you have no wisdom score.

Please cite where it says that a dead character has no wisdom score. Because it doesn't say that in the injury and death, conditions, or the ability scores section.

BaconBastard wrote:

Fergie wrote:

BaconBastard wrote:

Nope. That's not true. Unless you can find me something that says I become an object, I am still a creature. CRB says that a dead creature can't be healed by normal or magical means, so spells with the healing descriptor wouldn't work. That's the explanation that I have, unless something is worded ridiculously somewhere, there is no way I become an object.

Sorry, but if you don't have a wisdom score, you are considered an object.

Actually you're just unconscious, but if that was a joke, I enjoyed it.

I think you are confusing a wisdom score of 0 (unconscious), with NO wisdom score (not a creature). When you die, your scores don't go to zero, they go to "-" as in you don't have that score at all.

EDIT:"Wisdom (Wis)

Wisdom describes a character's willpower, common sense, awareness, and intuition. Wisdom is the most important ability for clerics and druids, and it is also important for paladins and rangers. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Wisdom. Every creature has a Wisdom score. A character with a Wisdom score of 0 is incapable of rational thought and is unconscious."

I missed that when I read it before, but you understand my confusion.

Do you have anything aside from the save/sr in gentle repose to support that you are in fact an object? This is what the CRB says about objects under the save section.

"(object)
The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects. A magic item's saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + 1/2 the item's caster level."

BaconBastard wrote:

Nope. That's not true. Unless you can find me something that says I become an object, I am still a creature. CRB says that a dead creature can't be healed by normal or magical means, so spells with the healing descriptor wouldn't work. That's the explanation that I have, unless something is worded ridiculously somewhere, there is no way I become an object.

Sorry, but if you don't have a wisdom score, you are considered an object.

Actually you're just unconscious, but if that was a joke, I enjoyed it.

Also I don't understand why you said that isn't what you said when your second sentence says that dead creatures stop being creatures.

BaconBastard wrote:

glass wrote:

BaconBastard wrote:

I read the thing on death that makes the lack of healing make sense. Things were worded stupid with people telling me that I become an object when I'm dead.

No, they were right about that. Dead creatures stop being creatures, and become objects. People in the thread have given the "common sense" explanation of why this doesn't work, but you're-not-a-creature-any-more is how that is implemented mechanically. Apart from no longer being a legitimate target for the spell, it also means you no longer have a Strength score to fix.

_
glass.

Nope. That's not true. Unless you can find me something that says I become an object, I am still a creature. CRB says that a dead creature can't be healed by normal or magical means, so spells with the healing descriptor wouldn't work. That's the explanation that I have, unless something is worded ridiculously somewhere, there is no way I become an object.

That's not what I said. As a dead body, you are no longer a valid target for spells such as restoration. dead bodies don't have ability scores to restore.

I'm pretty sure that you still have ability scores, they just can't be healed because you're dead.

Human Fighter wrote:

could you explain whatever errors that exist, please. We're interested, and often have plenty of personal time with our vc, but wouldn't want to waste their time.

If there was ample warning signs that the place where you went had strong Undead presence, you could have pre-cast Death Ward. It's a high-priority buff in mid-late game.

It's not too outlandish to pre-cast Mage Armor on all your tanky frontliners. It's only a level 1 spell slot to increase your touch AC by 4.

There were no such warning signs.

Mage armor does not increase your touch AC, it gives you an armor bonus that can be applied against incorporeal creatures.

BaconBastard wrote:

I read the thing on death that makes the lack of healing make sense. Things were worded stupid with people telling me that I become an object when I'm dead.

No, they were right about that. Dead creatures stop being creatures, and become objects. People in the thread have given the "common sense" explanation of why this doesn't work, but you're-not-a-creature-any-more is how that is implemented mechanically. Apart from no longer being a legitimate target for the spell, it also means you no longer have a Strength score to fix.

_
glass.

Nope. That's not true. Unless you can find me something that says I become an object, I am still a creature. CRB says that a dead creature can't be healed by normal or magical means, so spells with the healing descriptor wouldn't work. That's the explanation that I have, unless something is worded ridiculously somewhere, there is no way I become an object.

Now that I am awake and not busy, I'll run down what happened again. I opened some kind of stone cabinet thing and got immediately attacked by two greater shadows for a totally of 15 str damage and got dead real quick. My str score was 14. The arguments of things that I should have done in terms of spells or whatever before opening the cabinet are totally irrelevant because there's no indication of an incorporeal creature chilling in there waiting to kill me. You can't prepare for that level of unknown. I don't lift my toilet lid in my apartment ready for the half celestial dragon ghost in there to use it's breath weapon on me.

That said, I honestly care less about the fact that I died, and care more about figuring out how to make this not a death sentence in the future.

I want to start with breath of life. Breath of life just says that you're alive again as long as you're hp/con is correct. It also says that it doesn't counter death effects. Is a shadow's touch a death effect? As far as I know it's not.

So, is there any real way to deal with the str/con instant death? There must be some kind of solution to this.

Yeah, which scenario was that in?

Ouch.

I'm thinking my PFS characters need to carry an oil of Sanctify Corpse around their neck..

Does destroying the shadow before I raise as a shadow prevent me from doing so?

It does not. There we go, surprise round and you're dead forever. Not spending the insane 77 prestige to bring him back. If I spend the gold then my character just sucks forever.

RIP Jasper Percival Williams

Sucks to be you, although I kinda wonder what the situation was that two shadows managed to get to you, and attack you, in a surprise round.

I guess they could have been hanging out in walls waiting to ambush you.

I opened a thing and they were just hanging out in there.

I read the thing on death that makes the lack of healing make sense. Things were worded stupid with people telling me that I become an object when I'm dead.

Does destroying the shadow before I raise as a shadow prevent me from doing so?

I got hit by two advanced shadows in the surprise round for max damage.

I can find nothing to support that I no longer meet the requirements of "creature touched" in the rules and I would really like my PFS dude to keep on truckin'.

So I got killed by a shadow. I am told that restoration can't save me because I'm no longer a "creature" to be touched once I die. So how do you deal with this? A shadow touches you and you die outright with no solutions whatsoever? I have a lot of trouble accepting this, press help me out.

This one kills swarms the easy way. By letting the wizard earn his keep for once, instead of sitting at the back with his feet up.

Our wizard only had acid splash... he was level five... I cried inside...

Human Fighter wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Human Fighter wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Human Fighter wrote:

Fire on a weapon is FIRE damage, and not WEAPON damage. You have dr, resistances, immunities etc and WEAPON DAMAGE isn't FIRE DAMAGE.

Cough battle poi cough

I don't understand what you wrote in response to me. Could you please explain?

The Battle Poi is a weapon that only does fire damage. It deals fire damage, but that fire damage is weapon damage.

battle poi wrote:

Benefit: The weight of the poi is insufficient to deal physical damage, but the burning fuel deals fire damage. If you are proficient in battle poi, you are treated as if you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for the purposes of making poi attacks.

Where in the rules is it stating it's weapon damage? It says in its description it isn't physical damage but fire damage. If you could help me understand how you conclude it is weapon damage, then that would be helpful.

Rays and touch attacks are considered weapon attacks, to the point that bardic music's "weapon damage" buff affects them.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9oag

Ray and Touch attacks are weapons, but they don't deal weapon damage.

Joana wrote:

It only activates on a successful hit, and you can't successfully hit a swarm with a weapon.

nitpicking: this isnt correct, swarms are immune to weapon damage, not beeing hit by weapons, the his is just concidered to do 0 damage, so weather or not the energy dfamage is brought to 0 is a diffrent argument but you CAN hit it with a weapon

Exactly. Just because they're immune to the damage doesn't mean you can't hit them with a weapon. They do have an AC after all. To repeat myself again, the energy damage on a weapon is energy damage and not weapon damage.

I again would really like to know about energy damage on weapons. I still say it's energy and not weapon damage. That while part where it says "1d6 fire/acid/cold/lightning damage" should be a compelling argument.

So these things are really 100% the worst thing ever. I want to cry.

Energy damage on a weapon is still energy damage and not weapon damage. I still don't see where attacking a "swarm" with acid splash would target a single creature in the swarm instead of the swarm itself.

Currently in pfs the gm is ruling that a swarm that consists of creatures that are too small to take weapon damage cannot take energy damage from weapons (such as flame weapons). It was also determined that acid splash, and any other spell that makes an attack roll doesn't effect swarms, because single target spells don't effect it.

I don't believe either of these things to be true, swarms still have an AC so they should be subject to these attacks and take damage accordingly, right?

If not then are splash weapons and spells that cover an area the only things that effect swarms of this size?