dragon desciple and arcanist

[rdechert]

Does the ability to take the dragon bloodline and choose which spell at the time of casting count as casting without mesmerizing spells for the dragon disciple requirements

[kestral287]

The Arcanist prepared spells. The Disciple specifies the ability to cast without preparation. So no.

[Melkiador]

The Spell Specialist archetype can qualify for the spell portion, but that means you can't also take the blood arcanist archetype.

From Spell Specialist:
"The spell specialist can cast this spell without preparing it, in the same way a sorcerer casts spells spontaneously."

[Melkiador]

Wow. So apparently the Spell Specialist Arcanist Dragon Disciple with a Bloodline Development exploit bootstraps himself into the mostly full bloodline. That's wild.

[Gisher]

What exactly do you think the Bloodline Development Exploit has to do with Dragon Disciple?

[kestral287]

Bloodline Development stacks with the levels of whatever class gives you a bloodline.

Dragon Disciple gives you the powers of the Draconic bloodline.

It's kind of an odd question because of the wording of Blood of Dragons, but you can argue that the Disciple/Arcanist combination gives you a full Draconic bloodline sans the Arcana.

[Gisher]

Oh. By my reading, neither Blood Development nor Blood of Dragons grants a bloodline. Just bloodline powers. As far as can tell, only levels in sorcerer or blood arcanist can grant you a bloodline.

[kestral287]

Aye-- as I said, it's an odd question.

Though if we really want to be technical, Bloodline Development doesn't specify Sorcerer bloodline so it'd stack fine with a Bloodrager bloodline. No clue why you'd ever want to build that, mind, but there it is.

[Gisher]

As I recall, Advanced Class Origins failed to clarify whether Bloodrager bloodlines counted as Sorcerer Bloodlines as far as meeting the prerequisites for Dragon Disciple. They punted it to the GM's.

I really wish there was a way for Blood Arcanists to enter DD without dipping. I've wanted to build an Intelligence-casting DD since I first read the CRB, but the dip for spontaneous spells really hurts. I really miss the SLA trick.

[Melkiador]

Spell specialist arcanist can certainly enter DD if you just want an int based DD.

What's questionable is how it interacts with the bloodline development exploit.

[kestral287]

If you're not running PFS, Int Disciple is as simple as a Crossblooding. Sage/Draconic Sorcerer works fine.

Doesn't work in PFS on a technicality that the dev team is on record as saying is silly, but outside PFS I'd be shocked if any GM actually said no to that combination.

[Gisher]

Melkiador wrote:

Spell specialist arcanist can certainly enter DD if you just want an int based DD.

What's questionable is how it interacts with the bloodline development exploit.

Yeah, Spell Specialist works, but I don't think it gets the full bloodline advancement even with the bloodline development exploit. I'll have to take a longer look at some builds.

[Gisher]

kestral287 wrote:

If you're not running PFS, Int Disciple is as simple as a Crossblooding. Sage/Draconic Sorcerer works fine.

Doesn't work in PFS on a technicality that the dev team is on record as saying is silly, but outside PFS I'd be shocked if any GM actually said no to that combination.

I'm sure a lot of GM's would allow it, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy playing it. I'm a real stickler for the rules when it comes to my own characters.

[Melkiador]

Blood of dragons does seem to give you a draconic bloodline, if you don't already have one. And bloodline development lets you count your arcanist levels toward a bloodline gained from another source.

I'm sure there will be some table variance, but I don't see any concrete reason why this doesn't work.

[kestral287]

Because Disciple doesn't give you the full bloodline-- you don't get the Arcanas. Blood of Dragons itself is only separated from, say, the Eldritch Heritage line by also giving you the spells.

So the question becomes: where is the line drawn between what is and isn't a bloodline? How much of it do you have to get before you have the 'full' bloodline?

Arcanas, Powers, Feats, Spells are the full four things that the bloodline grants. It is entirely possible to have an official, no-questions-asked bloodline without ever getting the feats or spells, so those can't be it... so do you not have a bloodline until you have the arcana and the powers, or is just getting the powers enough?