I am new to Pathfinder (using BB). I am dad DMing for sons, 13, 11 and 8.
After Black Fang's Dungeon and a couple of BB Bash adventures "on the way back" from dungeon, kids hit level 2. Leveling sped up with only three players to split XP. They struggled mightily in that first adventure, and Black Fang about killed them.
After Black Fang, lots of gold and lots of treasure to sell (even at 50%) for gold.
At level two, after Black Fang, we've got:
Cavalier 26 HP: Dragon's Bane longsword, full plate, ring of protection and +8 atk/+7 dmg and 21 AC;
Ninja 18 HP: Masterwork Weapon, masterwork armor and ring of protection with +5 atk/+3 dmg and 18 AC. Add in 5 Ki points with each allowing for one round of std+move extra melee.
Summoner 20 HP: Masterwork Dagger, masterwork chain shirt and ring of protection with 18 AC. Eidolan is his weapon with natural attacks of one bite, two claws and 3 tentacles (only +2 atk).
They seem overpowered, because we ran GM transitions adventure rescuing dwarves from mine with gold elemental and spider, and they absolutely cruised. Not a hint of toruble.
Are standard level 1 or 2 adventures too tame for this party, or am I doing something wrong? They have no healer, so are vulnerable (I had to get creative against Black Fang with cleric joining them in cave in exchange for help with side BB Bash adventure reflavored).
It just seems +8 and +5 are pretty big bonuses against these CR 1/2 monsters and challenges.
player's are expected to be able to deal with 4-6 APL CR encounters per day or so.
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Each 2nd level character should only have about 1,000GP worth of equipment. I think bb puts in the way too expensive dragon bane sword to give a party a chance against the iconic monster of a dragon. The full plate alone would be too much for that cav, than an even mire expensive ring of protection also. Then the sword!
Not going to get my book now to check but are you sure the ninja should have that much ki?
Many people get summoners, or more to the point Eidolons wrong. He should.only have a max if 3 attacks a turn. Not 3 types of attacks, 6 total in the above case.
Looks like.you give.max hit.points each level. PCs only get maxhp at level one. After tbat they roll or.go with a formula. Most coomon is the formula of 1/2 hit die plus one plus con bonus, plus stuff like feats or favored class
What are their ability scores? They may be a big deal if one.or mire rolled very high. The game expects a 15 point buy for ability score generation. PFS uses 20 point buy and.I find that is very commonly expected in most groups.
Sure.many.others will be along soon to help you more.
Intended to be so, but it's not always the case.
Some good information. Thank you.
Bandw2--So right now, CR2 4-6 times a day. That seems reasonable, but they aren't getting hit by lots of these CR2 characters. Am I better with 3-4 CR3 encounters, perhaps?
Raymond Lambert--Good information, and some more info below.
-Ability Score Rolls were 4D6, getting rid of the lowest die. That was the BB method we used. The scores aren't too stacked but pretty balanced (Cav: 18, 13, 14, 10, 12, 15; Summ: 10, 14, 13, 16, 10, 16; Nin: 14, 16, 14, 10, 10, 15): All these account for the +2 racial score add to choice for humans.
-Equipment was bought in big city near Sandpoint with gold from Black Fang. They get a ton of loot on that adventure. 6,000+ gp new life scroll, 1 ring of prot., 1 masterwork dagger, ~ 1300 GP, 1000 GP energy heart ruby, +1/+3 dragonbane, +1 light steel shield, etc. They also got another ~500 GP or so from Bashes they hit.
-Ninja Ki is 3 for CHA, with +2 to Ki pool from feat (so, that will even out as levels go up)
-I did give almost full hit points for level 2. Two kids rolled high and one rolled very low. It was my way to make up for no cleric in the party. They know future levels will send them up less.Two also took toughness feat.
-On the Eidolan, I am not surprised I am doing it wrong. Three max attacks, no matter what was bought with evolution points? That is good to know. Once the 7 y.o. chose summoner, and I saw the simplified BB build versus the more complicated regular build, I knew I was going to have trouble figuring it out. He added the tentacles in a rearranging at level 2, so at least I only screwed that up for one adventure. :)
So, that is where everything came from. One question. Even in a bigger city, when they have the gold, should I limit them on what they can purchase to keep them at a set amount per level? I let them buy what they could afford-staying within the expectations of what the cities would have in shops. Didn't know about a 1,000 GP limit for 2nd level characters.
I appreciate the wonderful help. I haven't DM'd since AD&D 2nd (Spelljammer), and am just getting my kids into Pathfinder after playing the RotRL card games with them. Lots to learn.
Besides the Eidolon (which you've already been informed is breaking the rules. Which is fairly easy to accidentally do), these look ike very reasonable stats. On the weak side of things, actually. For example, if your Cavalier was wielding a Greatsword instead, he'd amost double his damage output immediately.
Low level encounters are just swingy, in both direction. PCs often easily deal enough damage to kill a CR 1 or 2 creature in a single swing at 1st level, and vice versa when many similar creatures hit the PCs (for example, a bog standard CR 1/3 Orc can deal enough damage with an above average roll to drop a d8 HD/14 Con PC in one hit. 2d4+4 on a Falchion can do it easy enough, and it crits often enough to be worrisome as well with 18-20 threat. Plus, with Ferocity, they effectively have a whopping 18 HP versus teh PCs maybe 15, max, for a Barbarian with 16 Con, and more likely 10-12 for a Rogue or Fighter or something with 14 Con).
Level 2 is sorta where PCs get their revenge. They have roughly twice as much HP, as do the monsters. However, monsters get half HD in HP EVERY level, while PCs get full at 1st. It doesn't matter as much at 1st since he who strikes first wins all, but now the monsters have like 10 HP (still within one shot range), whie the PCs have 20 (meaning at least two rounds, and probably more, are required to drop one to the negatives).
Things start to even out around 4 or 5, and carry on through about 11th where both PCs and monsters go back to the 1st level scenario of whoever hits first, hits last in many cases. Or at least, whoever full attacks or casts a Save or Suck/Die first hits last.
That is great info, Rynjin-good to know it levels out a bit. You are right. They struggled at level 1 and are killing it at level 2.
My son (Cavalier) does have great sword. I changed Dragonbane Longsword to Dragonbane Great sword, since that is what he was wielding and had taken weapon focus in. Seemed like a good little tweak to make. It deals a bucket of damage when it hits, though.
I will strengthen their encounters a bit (go for multiple monsters to meet CR2 or 3 instead of a single monster tomake up CR 2 they can gang up on), and know that it levels out (especially since they're not all that experienced building characters) soon.
Thank you everyone for your help. The boys are loving this. I, too, am enjoying myself.
Eidolons are very front-loaded. At low levels, they're basically as good or better than the fighter will be, though still usually a bit of a glass cannon.
As the player levels up, they fall behind offensively and defensively unless the player exhibits a high degree of system mastery.
Chief Technical Officer
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I have to point out that Paizo did not design Beginner Box versions of the classes you're using; if you haven't made your own, then whatever you're using would be a community creation which we can't vouch for. (That doesn't mean they're necessarily bad--it just means we haven't looked at it.)
You, Good Sir, just won the "Awesome Dad of the Century"-award.
DM'ing for your boys? I hope you have the first clue (and the second, third and fourth for that matter) how cool that makes you.
Also, I'd be less worried than you seem to be about the PC's being overpowered. If you feel they are able to fight off what you've sent them up against so far, you as the GM should always feel free to tweak their encounters to make them more challenging.
Apart from that, I can -heartily- recommend that you read this thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qpqo?Nearyns-tips-for-aspiring-GMs
It's written by one of my very good, personal, longtime IRL friends, Nearyn, and includes some handy tips for how to run games if you're new to that experience.
Yes, the most important thing to remember as a new GM is that a CR equal to the party level is supposed to be beaten without too much trouble. Its just supposed to be hard enough to wipe out 20-25% of the character's resources (hitpoints, spells, potions, etc) for the day.
Its not supposed to actually be able to stop them, its just supposed to slow them down.
As with any RPG game the only thing that matters is that everyone is having fun. I play with myself in D&D 5E for the Rise of the Dragons stuff (started playing games with 4E but that was too slow, and Pathfinder was confusing to me at the time with spells). As a DM, and players, if I do not like something I change it (ex. loot rolls sucked, so I rolled again and got something interesting).
You do not have to make things too easy or too hard. I personally enjoy a little difficulty, but love loot and rewards. If your children like magic items, then shower them in cool stuff. If they like to slaughter through a dungeon easily, focus more on story to keep it interesting. You can always change encounters or traps to make things more difficult for their level (and gear). That is the beauty of DMing, you create everything!
I DM for family a few times with 1-2 people. I enjoy their creativity, and they enjoy the surprises that happen just as much as if combat is easy or difficult. Use the books as guidelines and modify it as you see fit. As it roughly says in the 5th Edition DM Guide "If you think a level 1 character possessing a Ring of Invisibility will be the start of an exciting campaign, then go for it!"
Most fights will be easy. Some will be hard. That is the way things tend to go. If the PCs get overconfident it can often be a prelude to a fall.
This is all great info. I bought the RotR adventure books and am tweaking them to fit a slightly tamer story line for the little one. Keeping most of it, but changing some of the "scarier" little things. Mostly reskinning, but taking some side lines out and coming up with alternatives.
I am putting together a couple of different CR leveled fights in case they're having too hard.easy a time of anything.
Again, lots of great info and I appreciate it all--The Alkenstarian, thanks for link to great thread.
Another point worth making is that I find all the "roll for loot" games or games that dole out magical gear early on tends to make the pcs really op if they capitalize. I ran a game where the Pcs decided the best way to get famous was to hunt other adventurers for their equipment. By level 5 they were rolling in gear and money, and the xp gain was starting to get out of control. (Ultimately, the Law came for them with the big hammer and they had to spend most of the cash and gear busting their companion out of the clink, but that's beside the point.)
Just remember to be judicious about doling out gear or money. There's a table in the Core rules mentions gold amounts for PCs starting above level 1 - I cut those numbers in half, and assume that new number as a good "average" amount for a PC. I prefer games where getting a +1 item is a bigger deal, and flesh them out/unique-ify them by tossing on some lesser power - like "Caster level 3, bless once per day, when struck by (insert alignment) enemy" It just seems to ruin the challenge/xp curve when pcs are rocking +2 items on every slot. The moment they get them, they're already plotting the course to the +3's.
Also - it may help to allot xp for completing objectives rather than just for killing mobs. If a clever party saves the princess through guile and cunning alone, why should they be penalized because they chose not to kick open the castle doors and slog through an army of goblins? I tried it out recently, dishing out small bonuses for combats (50, 100xp or so each, maybe 200 for a tough one) and larger rewards for plot arcs (they aquired the assassin's identity - 1000 xp. and if they finally bring him to justice? 3000.) It worked beautifully. Also kept the party on task, rather than focusing on loot tables and such.
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I would play a few games of old school AD&D or Dungeon Crawl Classics or even D&D Basic/Expert the pdf is at below location.
http://www.dndclassics.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basi c?filters=0_0_44699
Why? This should give you a FAB simple way of working out how this should be, you don't have to play with the kids, I play with my wife and the Adults and it works in very well, I then run D&D 5E & Pathfinder Games for two other groups.
B5 "Horror on the hill" and B1+B2 are Prob the best example of a adventure creation & styles you should look at. At this level anyway.