Dual Weilding W / 4 Arms


Rules Questions


A player in my upcoming campaign is using a Kasatha Inquisitor. We were looking at the description for Rapiers which reads "You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier to its damage."

It got us curious though.

Now, for the purposes of two-weapon fighting, is it possible to count one pair of hands as the "main hand" and the other as the "off-hand"? I know in the text it notes that only one hand is the main hand and all others are off-hands, but this is a little outside the norms.

A swift response would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!


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As far as I can tell Kasatha can use four rapiers at once making four attacks at -2 to all. You still cannot add more then one hand to the rapier and cannot get 1-1/2 str.


No, on multi-armed creatures, you have one main hand and 2 or more "off-hands", not two primary and two secondary.


Any time you get into Kasathas using multiweapon fighting rules, things are going to fall heavily into GM discretion.

However, "you can't wield a rapier in two hands" means exactly what it says. You can't do it if you have no hands, two hands, four hands, or ninety-nine hands.


No I knew that part. I used the mentioning of the Rapier to segway into the discussion of one set of "main hands" and another of "off-hands".

But I'm guessing the consensus for Kasatha is more or less GM discression then?


I've always wondered if i could use 4 arms to duel wield great swords with minimal penalties? Or what about one great sword and one longsword?


Goddity wrote:
I've always wondered if i could use 4 arms to duel wield great swords with minimal penalties? Or what about one great sword and one longsword?

The problem with that idea is that even if it's allowed, you're going to run into a minimum of a -4/-6 roll if memory serves. That's with all necessary feats. Even if you're running a Titan Mauler.

Grand Lodge

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Normally, no.

The Kasatha has a note, that it has an additional "Off-hands".

So, yes, it would work the same for Two-Weapon Fighting.

Although, creatures with more than two arms automatically get Multiweapon Fighting instead.

Now, it would work like this: Main Hand Off Hands
Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapons are light –4 –8
Multiweapon Fighting feat –4 –4
Off-hand weapons are light and Multiweapon Fighting feat –2 –2

Your player should look into the Effortless Lace for his Off-hand weapon.


Oh awesome! Thanks blackbloodtroll!

Grand Lodge

The rules regarding Power Attack, would work as normal.

-1 to +3 for the Main Hand, and -1 to +1 for the Off-hand weapon.

When determining bonuses, you should go with the lower bonus, if two possible bonuses could be read in a rules situation.

As it notes in Power Attack, "bonus to damage is halved" for the Off-hand, so that would be 1.5, and you would round down.

Grand Lodge

The bonuses to from Strength(not noting the exception with the Rapier), would be Main: x1.5 Off-hand: x0.5.

Now, you may want to houserule that the Main-hand, always gets x1 Strength to damage, no matter what weapon. That's just me.

Of course, with the Rapier, you wouldn't need to worry about that.


The closest to actual rules comes from the Kasatha's Ranger archetype. The implication is that yes, you can dual-wield a pair of two-handed weapons... but it's using bows, which you may or may not feel change things (for one, you don't have to figure out the whole strength thing).

One interesting way I saw for working the math on all of this had to do with the damage output of a hand. Normally:

-Your main hand is worth 1 Str
-Your off-hand is worth .5 Str

Thus you can THF, and get 1.5x Str. Or you can TWF, and get Str+.5 Str.

A Kasatha would have 1+(.5*3) Str available, so 2.5 total. If you did allow dual-wielding of two handed weapons, then, it would be logical to give the main hand 1.5x Str and the off-hand 1x Str. Double Slice would bring both up to 1.5x

Which, now, still makes the more powerful melee fighters than virtually any of their competition.


A bow is not a two handed weapon. It is a weapon which uses two hands. That is not semantics. There is an actual difference. When referring to two-handed weapons they are referring to the amount of effort, and there is no rules support for dual weilding two-handed weapons which are listed under melee weapons.

The category is "Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons".

Silver Crusade

I asked James Jacobs a similar question about a four armed race and he told me that the whole comat system would have to be redesigned for a four armed PC.


Aw, man, I really don't like this race.

It really trashes that ages-old game design rule about never making one option so good that it makes all other options obsolete. For example, I'm having a difficult time imagining any TWF/Sneak Attack build that wouldn't be obviously and significantly better as a Kasatha than any other core/base race.


Well when you can make four attacks a turn at level 1 and beyond its powerful. Now imagine a Kukri crit fishing build on top of a Kasatha with the Butterfly Sting feat. That is a walking talking blender who can freely hand out crits like an old man with a dish of hard candy.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Goddity wrote:
I've always wondered if i could use 4 arms to duel wield great swords with minimal penalties?

[pedant rant]

I may have to start challenging to a duel anyone who uses "duel" when they mean DUAL. It's almost as bad as things that affect an effect.
[/pedant rant]

Word Crimes

Scarab Sages

SlimGauge wrote:
Goddity wrote:
I've always wondered if i could use 4 arms to duel wield great swords with minimal penalties?

[pedant rant]

I may have to start challenging to a duel anyone who uses "duel" when they mean DUAL. It's almost as bad as things that affect an effect.
[/pedant rant]

Word Crimes

Indeed, such a grammatical faux pas should be enough to rouge a rogue's cheeks.


Several races can start with 3-4 natural weapons so beyond powerful it isn't. You have better crits vs full attack/str bonuses. It's trivially easy to get 6 natural attacks, so it's not super powerful.

Now it may be the best TWF/MWF option but that comes at a price: Buckets of cash. Keeping the enchants up on 4 weapons will bankrupt most characters. At least natural weapons only has the cost of 2 weapons. I think that's what the people that go 'OMG POWERFUL!' forget. Keeping two weapons can hurt your budget, but doing that with 4 will means a big lack in every other magic item slot.


Which is why Kasatha brawlers are great.
Also, Kasatha pistoleros, especially if your GM lets you get masterwork stone double-barreled pistols.


Indeed they are. Adding full str to offhand unarmed strikes make them one of the best unarmed fighters.


Avoron wrote:

Which is why Kasatha brawlers are great.

The only issue is that flurry/Brawler’s Flurry only count as Two-Weapon Fighting and NOT multi-weapon fighting. So there they are no better than normal brawlers/monks. To get up to speed, they have to actually take multi-weapon fighting and the monk has to use their normal BAB. Also note that the advanced feats (improved and greater TWF) have no counterpart for multi-weapon fighting so it's up in the air how they work.

Avoron wrote:
Also, Kasatha pistoleros, especially if your GM lets you get masterwork stone double-barreled pistols.

Firearms is where a Kasatha can really shine and is where it's most powerful. It allows reloading without a lot of hoop jumping and firearms don't require a lot of enchantment to keep up.

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