I find it interesting that they had a no slander/libel contract. IF, that is in deed true...the problem is they may actually have a real court reason to take her to court. The irony in that is that she may actually pay out more than what Jordan was initially paid if it is deemed she did enough damage to the viability of a future program.
This is Hollywood Politics, and yes, it can get nasty.
That said, if Sony came out on Sundance or another of their channels, and it was put out as big as something like Black Sails or Game of Thrones, or even Mad Men, who here would NOT want to watch at least the first few episodes.
It's not slander if it's true. They failed to meet the constraints of the contract. They did not even inform her of the production.
I watched it, I read the first 8 books before I tapered off, worried he would die before he finished. I have since read a synopsis of the rest and am still unsure if I want to finish as I think some things by Sanderson were heavily mishandled. We'll see. I'd watch (heck, I watched this thing).
It's not slander if it's true. They failed to meet the constraints of the contract. They did not even inform her of the production.
I watched it, I read the first 8 books before I tapered off, worried he would die before he finished. I have since read a synopsis of the rest and am still unsure if I want to finish as I think some things by Sanderson were heavily mishandled. We'll see. I'd watch (heck, I watched this thing).
There are certain things she stated which go beyond that, and in fact depending on what the contract states, could mean she's in violation of the slander/libel portion.
I'm not privy to the contract, but seeing what she stated, it would not surprise me that if they HAD a contract she violated it.
I don't know what's in the contract, but these things can be very tricky. Once again, it stinks, but Hollywood isn't necessarily a nice place either.
Several items, the problem is, as I already stated, Hollywood is a very nasty place at times. IF I point it out and someone decides to take issue and hunt me down, suddenly I'm the one on the hotspot for libel and slander...
I thought about highlighting some things, but you know, Hollywood and those contracts really ARE nasty affairs at times (it's actually most of the entertainment industry).
Sometimes the BEST thing to say (and I would say this REALLY could have applied to this situation if she actually signed a LIBEL/SLANDER contract) is NOTHING at all. Seriously. There are so many ways to break one of those it's not funny.
There sounds like there could be a contradiction or two between whats being said was stated on both sides, and what is being said the contract has stated. These things are very touchy...and if you are EVER in a situation where they want you to sign something in regards to a contract regarding LIBEL...you'll want to refer to a lawyer before you EVER say anything AT ALL in regards to what the contract pertains to. Either that, or not sign it.
When I say these things can be nasty...I don't know how else to say it, but I don't think people realize just how nasty these things really can be.
It doesn't mean she'll be found to have violated it, it doesn't mean she is innocent (as I said, I have not seen the contract, so I don't know what's in it), it simply means that it's possible. In many contracts of this type, there is a thing or two she stated which may be a violation, but I don't think I should say exactly what they are for my own personal thoughts of not wanting to get into such a dirty matter (some people can be VERY vindictive and will hunt down anything they feel is somewhat legal or anything else...even an empty lawsuit can be costly), as well as not truly knowing what is in the contract itself I don't know whether she did or did not violate it.
That would be for the lawyers to hash out between them (which hopefully she has one).
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The company must think they can make more money off the law suit than from an actual potential TV show, because honestly after this move they have precisely a zero percent chance of ever getting one done successfully. Bad publicity AND the anger of the fans are just not acceptable jumping off points.
What worries me about this is that it means they have a good shot of winning the law suit.
Red Eagle's ability to operate as a legal company was suspended in August 2014, allegedly for tax issues in California. No-one's found any evidence that this status has changed recently, meaning they cannot legally sue anyone because they effectively do not exist. I guess that also means they can't have made this production and that the film rights have reverted automatically to the Jordan Estate.
I'm assuming that this actually isn't the case, otherwise the people behind Red Eagle are very daft indeed.
In addition, the actress who played Ilyena in the episode is Billy Zane's girlfriend, model Candice Neill. Either he's a huge fan of the books or he saw the potential in this going to series and decided to get on the action for the chance of an ongoing role or producer's pay-off later on.
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So it is an UNDEAD, likely incorporeal, company that did this? Beautiful. :-)
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Red Eagle's ability to operate as a legal company was suspended in August 2014, allegedly for tax issues in California. No-one's found any evidence that this status has changed recently, meaning they cannot legally sue anyone because they effectively do not exist. I guess that also means they can't have made this production and that the film rights have reverted automatically to the Jordan Estate.
I'm assuming that this actually isn't the case, otherwise the people behind Red Eagle are very daft indeed.
Don't assume that they're acting in any way reasonably or rationally. There's lots of sketchy companies who act in completely illegal ways, and don't care, if they can grab a buck. Look up Prenda Law for the most extreme example I know of. They just won't let themselves die.
I watched the pilot, and years ago I had a fellow gamer regale me with a skeleton of the plot (he was excitied about the tenth book having just come out, it was awhile ago). I can't say I know it well enough to have an opinion on the pilot
Since there seems to be a confluence of fans in attendance for the thread, I have a question I've been curious about: The idea is that men who use magic go crazy, right? In that case, how does the Source identify who is a man?
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The source is split into two gender based halves, Saidar and Saidin. Men draw on Saidin while woman draw upon Saidar. The Dark One managed to taint the male half of the source Saidin during his battle with Lews Therin Telamon. This in turn causes people who draw upon it to go crazy. The more you draw the faster it is, but it's inevitable.
How many volumes into The Wheel of Time are you required to get before you can decide you don't like it?
I wish I'd stopped at #1, instead of stubbornly trudging on until number 8 or 9 or whatever (they all started to run together in my head by that point).
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If a book you love is going to be made into a movie, get ready to be disappointed. That's just how it is. With very few exceptions.
@ Xzaral: The original author didn't even finish the series. :P
The source is split into two gender based halves, Saidar and Saidin. Men draw on Saidin while woman draw upon Saidar. The Dark One managed to taint the male half of the source Saidin during his battle with Lews Therin Telamon. This in turn causes people who draw upon it to go crazy. The more you draw the faster it is, but it's inevitable.
Thanks. Jokes about padding aside, this makes me feel even better about deciding to skip the series.
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The source is split into two gender based halves, Saidar and Saidin. Men draw on Saidin while woman draw upon Saidar. The Dark One managed to taint the male half of the source Saidin during his battle with Lews Therin Telamon. This in turn causes people who draw upon it to go crazy. The more you draw the faster it is, but it's inevitable.Thanks. Jokes about padding aside, this makes me feel even better about deciding to skip the series.
Why? what do you find so objectionable about the idea?
I'm not sure about this, but I suspect that the series takes some inspiration from oriental cultures such as Buddhism and Chinese philosophy, so the theme of duality is very prevalent. For example, the symbol that represents the split source of power clearly resembles the Ying and Tang real world symbol. The duality of males and females is somehow related to that (I'm not deep enough in the series to know if it is ever explained or not).
Reading through the comments here makes me wonder who besides myself actually finished the entire series.
*raises hand*
And someday I'm going to read them all again, consecutively this time...or possibly listen to the audio books. I've forgotten a lot, and so many books do tend to blend together. :)
Why? what do you find so objectionable about the idea?The source is split into two gender based halves, Saidar and Saidin. Men draw on Saidin while woman draw upon Saidar. The Dark One managed to taint the male half of the source Saidin during his battle with Lews Therin Telamon. This in turn causes people who draw upon it to go crazy. The more you draw the faster it is, but it's inevitable.Thanks. Jokes about padding aside, this makes me feel even better about deciding to skip the series.
This is speculation on my part, but I suspect the whole duality theme turns some people off because it plays on and emphasizes those traditional gender themes -- WoT has a variety of characters, but in many respects it's about men being good ol' fashioned men and women being good ol' fashioned women. The way that saidin and saidar act fundamentally differently, and how channelers live or die depending on their attitude toward their half of the One Power, for example.
I do love the series, but it can easily be read as an oversimplified metaphor for gender and a glorification of traditional gender norms. If I fit a bit less neatly into my traditional gender box, I might have been too turned off to get past the first book.
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Reading through the comments here makes me wonder who besides myself actually finished the entire series.*raises hand*
And someday I'm going to read them all again, consecutively this time...or possibly listen to the audio books. I've forgotten a lot, and so many books do tend to blend together. :)
When the last book was coming out I started them all over again in preparation (if I recall I was only like book 9 when it released). I was amazed at how many little things I had forgotten and how many little things didn't really matter to the story but were fun in their own right. It felt like he had too many stories he wanted to tell in this world and tried to tell them all at the same time when it would've been better to give each their own story.
I've felt tempted to go back and do it again, but I doubt I will.
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This is speculation on my part, but I suspect the whole duality theme turns some people off because it plays on and emphasizes those traditional gender themes -- WoT has a variety of characters, but in many respects it's about men being good ol' fashioned men and women being good ol' fashioned women. The way that saidin and saidar act fundamentally differently, and how channelers live or die depending on their attitude toward their half of the One Power, for example.
I do love the series, but it can easily be read as an oversimplified metaphor for gender and a glorification of traditional gender norms. If I fit a bit less neatly into my traditional gender box, I might have been too turned off to get past the first book.
You know all of these things from reading the series - the constant bickering between men and women is really annoying in it - but just from hearing the concept of channeling according to the born sex? It seems a bit far fetched to denounce a story on something as simple as that...
You know all of these things from reading the series - the constant bickering between men and women is really annoying in it - but just from hearing the concept of channeling according to the born sex? It seems a bit far fetched to denounce a story on something as simple as that...
The concept isn't bad in and of itself, but the rambling aspect of the series as a whole really shows itself in a very negative way with this, and I really didn't like it as a primary focus. I didn't mind the idea at first, but there was just something about the way it was presented that made it wear very thin for me very quickly. Balance and the whole ying/yang thing is fine, and I didn't mind the part about male summoners being tainted to a point, but the whole rambling aspect of the series really dragged this aspect of the story out farther than it really needed to, and personally, I felt it would have been much better as something going on in the background that colored everything else without always having to be brought up as a primary focus.
You know all of these things from reading the series - the constant bickering between men and women is really annoying in it - but just from hearing the concept of channeling according to the born sex? It seems a bit far fetched to denounce a story on something as simple as that...This is speculation on my part, but I suspect the whole duality theme turns some people off because it plays on and emphasizes those traditional gender themes -- WoT has a variety of characters, but in many respects it's about men being good ol' fashioned men and women being good ol' fashioned women. The way that saidin and saidar act fundamentally differently, and how channelers live or die depending on their attitude toward their half of the One Power, for example.
I do love the series, but it can easily be read as an oversimplified metaphor for gender and a glorification of traditional gender norms. If I fit a bit less neatly into my traditional gender box, I might have been too turned off to get past the first book.
*shrug*
Maybe the gender-based channeling concept is enough of a red flag for Scythia -- or maybe I'm completely wrong about Scythia's reasons for avoiding WoT. If Scythia replies again, maybe we'll find out.
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WoT has a variety of characters, but in many respects it's about men being good ol' fashioned men and women being good ol' fashioned women. The way that saidin and saidar act fundamentally differently, and how channelers live or die depending on their attitude toward their half of the One Power, for example.
I wish Nynaeve had kept her characterization from the first half of the series where her arrogance was actually backed up by her abilities... and I don't just mean the channeling. She tracked a warder through the woods (twice), kept her and the princess hidden in Falme long enough to infiltrate the most heavily guarded building in the city and broke Egwne out, and topped it off by beating one of the forsaken by kicking her between the legs.
You know all of these things from reading the series - the constant bickering between men and women is really annoying in it - but just from hearing the concept of channeling according to the born sex? It seems a bit far fetched to denounce a story on something as simple as that...This is speculation on my part, but I suspect the whole duality theme turns some people off because it plays on and emphasizes those traditional gender themes -- WoT has a variety of characters, but in many respects it's about men being good ol' fashioned men and women being good ol' fashioned women. The way that saidin and saidar act fundamentally differently, and how channelers live or die depending on their attitude toward their half of the One Power, for example.
I do love the series, but it can easily be read as an oversimplified metaphor for gender and a glorification of traditional gender norms. If I fit a bit less neatly into my traditional gender box, I might have been too turned off to get past the first book.
*shrug*
Maybe the gender-based channeling concept is enough of a red flag for Scythia -- or maybe I'm completely wrong about Scythia's reasons for avoiding WoT. If Scythia replies again, maybe we'll find out.
You're pretty spot on. I despise gender essentialism, and have strong views regarding gender and forced external definition of gender.
I don't have a problem with dualism, and particularly the yin/yang concept is fine with me. The important difference is that while yin is thought of as more feminine and yang is more masculine, neither is outright barred to anyone. Seeing that a story is based on the conceit of gender specific magic (I suspect more accurately sex specific) is a big red flag that ideas I'll disagree with will follow.
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Would it surprise you, then, to learn that there's a transgender channeler in the series? This shocks the hell out of everyone who realizes it when it happens, and the implications aren't explored nearly as much as I would've liked, but it's definitely a thing.
The series examines a lot of gender essentialist concepts, but I at least would argue it doesn't ultimately validate it. For instance, one of the descriptions used most often for the process men use to manipulate saidin is to call it a "dance," which is not a particularly masculine activity - although it is also the same term that is used to describe a lot of the swordfights. It's also worth noting that, while saidin and saidar themselves are gendered, the relationships that channelers have to their own "halves" are very different, even from one channeler to the next. (One character in particular, who is both very feminine and very not, depending on context, initially has difficulty with the mindset needed to channel saidar - but even once she gets it down she remains one of the most violent and aggressive characters in the series.) That is, the Source might be dualistically gendered, but the people who actually use and touch it are not nearly so monochromatic. The most interesting thing, though, is the fact that the most powerful works of magic require the combination of the two halves, and the practical application requires a single individual to be both "male" and "female" at the same time in order to handle both "flavors" at once. This is specifically noted as not being easy, but both men and women do so as the books go on.
Would it surprise you, then, to learn that there's a transgender channeler in the series? This shocks the hell out of everyone who realizes it when it happens, and the implications aren't explored nearly as much as I would've liked, but it's definitely a thing.
The series examines a lot of gender essentialist concepts, but I at least would argue it doesn't ultimately validate it. For instance, one of the descriptions used most often for the process men use to manipulate saidin is to call it a "dance," which is not a particularly masculine activity - although it is also the same term that is used to describe a lot of the swordfights. It's also worth noting that, while saidin and saidar themselves are gendered, the relationships that channelers have to their own "halves" are very different, even from one channeler to the next. (One character in particular, who is both very feminine and very not, depending on context, initially has difficulty with the mindset needed to channel saidar - but even once she gets it down she remains one of the most violent and aggressive characters in the series.) That is, the Source might be dualistically gendered, but the people who actually use and touch it are not nearly so monochromatic. The most interesting thing, though, is the fact that the most powerful works of magic require the combination of the two halves, and the practical application requires a single individual to be both "male" and "female" at the same time in order to handle both "flavors" at once. This is specifically noted as not being easy, but both men and women do so as the books go on.
I would rather expect it. Much like some DM like to make hard set rules, then have their pet NPC break the rules to show you how cool they are, I would be almost disappointed if there wasn't a subversion at some point.
My question would be, did they access the magic form of the other gender as well? If the character was for instance born male-bodied, but identified and presented as female, and accessed the female type of magic, then I would be impressed. That would make me wonder again how the source identities who is male and who is female, in terms of access to power. Which is probably my biggest issue with the concept. Is it biological, or is it personal? I disagree fundamentally with the idea of biology as destiny.
The idea of the most powerful effects requiring either cooperation or a being who blended genders is a callback to both the concept of a Rebis from European alchemy (combining the attributes of both female and male to transcend limitations), and the shamanic traditions of some tribal groups which held that only a man who lived as a woman could contact the spirits to receive blessings. Interesting concepts, and good on him for using them, but I doubt I'd keep reading this long enough to get to them.
Would it surprise you, then, to learn that there's a transgender channeler in the series? This shocks the hell out of everyone who realizes it when it happens, and the implications aren't explored nearly as much as I would've liked, but it's definitely a thing.
I remember nothing of this...I've got to reread this series!
Would it surprise you, then, to learn that there's a transgender channeler in the series? This shocks the hell out of everyone who realizes it when it happens, and the implications aren't explored nearly as much as I would've liked, but it's definitely a thing.I remember nothing of this...I've got to reread this series!
Not so much "transgender" as reincarnated into a body of the other gender. The metaphysical implications are that a person's soul, not their body, determines their connection to saidar or saidin; also that the soul has a gender independent of the body, but in the normal course of things the gender of the body matches the gender of the soul.
Would it surprise you, then, to learn that there's a transgender channeler in the series? This shocks the hell out of everyone who realizes it when it happens, and the implications aren't explored nearly as much as I would've liked, but it's definitely a thing.I remember nothing of this...I've got to reread this series!
I believe it was Bathamael (sp?) which was killed and then resurrected as a woman. He still had his personality, but was in the body of a woman [aran'gar (sp?)]. As such, though the body was different, he is still himself.
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I don't have a problem with dualism, and particularly the yin/yang concept is fine with me. The important difference is that while yin is thought of as more feminine and yang is more masculine, neither is outright barred to anyone. Seeing that a story is based on the conceit of gender specific magic (I suspect more accurately sex specific) is a big red flag that ideas I'll disagree with will follow.
Clearly you know more about this subject than I do, but... gender is not the same as sex, right? And the concept never included your magic abilities being affected by your gender, only by your sex. That there are differences between the sexes is indisputable, so I just fail to grasp why a magic system that works differently for each is such an offensive idea. Isn't that a bit like being offended by the fact that women have use of a bra and men don't?
To clarify I'm not trying to pick a fight, just to understand. I admit to being curious.
I don't have a problem with dualism, and particularly the yin/yang concept is fine with me. The important difference is that while yin is thought of as more feminine and yang is more masculine, neither is outright barred to anyone. Seeing that a story is based on the conceit of gender specific magic (I suspect more accurately sex specific) is a big red flag that ideas I'll disagree with will follow.Clearly you know more about this subject than I do, but... gender is not the same as sex, right? And the concept never included your magic abilities being affected by your gender, only by your sex. That there are differences between the sexes is indisputable, so I just fail to grasp why a magic system that works differently for each is such an offensive idea. Isn't that a bit like being offended by the fact that women have use of a bra and men don't?
To clarify I'm not trying to pick a fight, just to understand. I admit to being curious.
A man could wear a bra. Particularly a sports bra. (they just wouldn't derive much benefit from doing so :P)
Gender and sex are different, you're correct. Sex is used to describe the biological aspect, basically what "parts" a person has, while gender describes their identity, behaviour, and social presentation. The problem is that often they are used interchangeably. In this case particularly, I would be very surprised to learn that they were not being used to mean the same thing.
I very much doubt that the Source gauges access to the types of magic based on how a person dresses, feels, and behaves. So if someone in this story had a female gender, lived, dressed, and in all ways behaved as a woman, but had been born male-bodied, they would be completely unable to access the female type of magic. (Barring apparently the possibility that they have a "female soul"). That brings to mind the accusations transgender people face routinely of "not being real", but with the accusation coming from the universe itself.
Suicide rates among transgender people are ridiculously high with just normal human bullying, I can't imagine how much higher they'd be if the universe itself was throwing shade. Not to mention, I can't imagine transgender people would be looked upon well at all in a world based around such a clear division. People can't see your genetics, so they go by how you present in our world. In this world they could judge by which power you access.
My issue (and I know it's my problem) is that I recoil at the idea of locked magic access like that, and the world it would create. It reminds me of times that people have used gender as a leash or a weapon.
I don't know. If I was setting up such a world and such a system, I'd have transgender people would access the source based on their real gender, not their assigned sex. That would match "soul" better to me than soul being based on assigned sex of the original body.
Or more simply: It's magic. It could get it right.
Obviously there are still cases that doesn't cover well.It's quite possible it works that way in the series. It just doesn't come up because Jordan never brings up trans people - other than the one forcibly reincarnated into a body of the other sex. Which isn't quite the same situation.More generally, you should probably just avoid the books. Jordan's handling of gender is frustrating enough to me and I'm not particularly bothered by the sex/gender linked magic part.
That's the way I'd set it up too, but that doesn't seem like the way it is in the series, from all accounts. All the readers know of a story and the world it inhabits is what the author shows them.
I had other reasons to avoid the series before, this just confirms that I was correct (for my own preferences) to do so.
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Well, on the concept of the magic system itself I understand your position, Scythia, though I cannot agree with it. Unlike theJeff, I imagine that the magic system really has nothing to do with gender, merely with sex. I have not read as much of the series as he has, but from what I have seen so far there really isn't a way to tell who is more correct - but the point is that just from knowing that men and women have different magical powers, the question of how gender factors in is open to interpretation. Bottom line, the way I see it is that even for someone sensitive to sex/gender issues, the fact that the magic system in a fantasy setting is based on sex should not by itself be damning to the setting.
However, as theJeff said, the magic system is not the biggest issue with the books - the issue is that the representations of men, women, and mainly their interactions is one of the worst I've ever seen. It also is unignorable, since it is brought up what seems to be thirteen million times per book. I think you are making the right choice by deciding not to read it.
A man could wear a bra. Particularly a sports bra. (they just wouldn't derive much benefit from doing so :P)
Aha! I thought of that, which is why I said
women have use of a bra and men don't
Never said they couldn't :)
I think Book 9 was what killed my interest in the series.
Book 9 plods on tediously, and then abruptly climaxes with Rand and Nyneave finally getting back together for the first time since book 3 and
And it's an incredibly cool sequence - right up there with high points of books 1 to 5. (I feel like Book 5 was the last one that was actually good. And yeah, I'm one of those who holds up Book 4 as the high point of the series.)
And I was furiously angry after it was done, because I realized that Jordan still had it in him to write stuff like that, and he chose to write meandering garbage instead.
So, ironically, it was Jordan doing something really cool after a dry spell of like 4 books that caused me to give up on the series.
Late last year, I saw that Sanderson had finished the series, and picked the final book off of a shelf and started thumbing through it.
And then I realized I simply didn't care anymore, and I put it back on the shelf.
And I was furiously angry after it was done, because I realized that Jordan still had it in him to write stuff like that, and he chose to write meandering garbage instead.
That actually sums up my thoughts pretty well. The whole concept behind the story was solid and the world was really amazing, but when it came to the actual writing of the story itself, it just meandered way too much and left too many story hooks unresolved for far too long. I can see why a lot of people were willing to stick with it, but I gave up after book 1. The writing style just didn't pull me in and make me interested in finding out how the story would eventually end.
I very much doubt that the Source gauges access to the types of magic based on how a person dresses, feels, and behaves. So if someone in this story had a female gender, lived, dressed, and in all ways behaved as a woman, but had been born male-bodied, they would be completely unable to access the female type of magic. (Barring apparently the possibility that they have a "female soul"). That brings to mind the accusations transgender people face routinely of "not being real", but with the accusation coming from the universe itself.
The magics are pretty close to each other. They'd use the same spell list with the occasional asterix like "male channelers add 3 levels for fire spells" or "the length of the air bridge is 10 feet per caster level for male channelers and 20 feet per level for female channelers"
Learning to use magic is dangerous- about 1 person in four survives it untrained. Very likely if someone had a male mindset trying to use the female source or vice versa they'd vastly increase their already sizable chances of dying or frying their ability.
To use the female half you surrender to it and nudge it along into doing what you want. To use the male half you fight with it , beat the heck out of it and wrestle with it. A few channelers have a discussion about it , and they're all pretty sure that trying it the other way would burn them to a crisp.
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To use the female half you surrender to it and nudge it along into doing what you want. To use the male half you fight with it , beat the heck out of it and wrestle with it. A few channelers have a discussion about it , and they're all pretty sure that trying it the other way would burn them to a crisp.
This. This is exactly the problem. So women have to be passive and manipulative, and men have to be aggressive and forceful. No men can be passive or manipulative, and no women can be aggressive or forceful. The very idea is so foreign that they assume they would die if they even tried.
That's absurd.
If a book you love is going to be made into a movie, get ready to be disappointed. That's just how it is. With very few exceptions.
This used to be more true than it is now. Things like LotR (but definitely not THE HOBBIT) and GAME OF THRONES show it can be done very well indeed.
I'm not sure about this, but I suspect that the series takes some inspiration from oriental cultures such as Buddhism and Chinese philosophy, so the theme of duality is very prevalent. For example, the symbol that represents the split source of power clearly resembles the Ying and Tang real world symbol. The duality of males and females is somehow related to that (I'm not deep enough in the series to know if it is ever explained or not).
The series is very heavily based on Buddhism and Chinese philosophy, with a massive dash of Hinduism and Japanese mythology as well.
Not so much "transgender" as reincarnated into a body of the other gender. The metaphysical implications are that a person's soul, not their body, determines their connection to saidar or saidin; also that the soul has a gender independent of the body, but in the normal course of things the gender of the body matches the gender of the soul.
Jordan was asked about this and he confirmed it was down to the soul. He was also asked about someone being born male in one life being reincarnated in the next as a woman and said it was something that might happen, but it was a complication he wasn't going to be looking at (IIRC). Fan speculation was that channellers would be much more likely to remain the same sex due to their very connection to the Power.
One of the biggest problems in the whole thing is gender reassignment. Whilst the 'now' of the series is a medieval society, the backstory is set in the Age of Legends, a far-future, post-scarcity SF society (which gets blown up through hubris, returning everyone to the dark ages). This society is far more advanced than our own so things like gender reassignment should be more prevalent than during our time, but it never comes up. They don't spend a huge amount of time on the Age of Legends sequences, but there was missed opportunity there to complicate things.
I very much doubt that the Source gauges access to the types of magic based on how a person dresses, feels, and behaves. So if someone in this story had a female gender, lived, dressed, and in all ways behaved as a woman, but had been born male-bodied, they would be completely unable to access the female type of magic. (Barring apparently the possibility that they have a "female soul"). That brings to mind the accusations transgender people face routinely of "not being real", but with the accusation coming from the universe itself.
Jordan definitely failed to address this point. It's worth noting that not everyone in the setting can use magic as a matter of choice: it's a simple genetic quirk whether you can use the Power or not, and less than 1% of the population even has the potential to use it (and something more like 0.1% are 'inborn', that is will develop the ability to use it whether they want to or not). So my guess that Jordan may have tried to have dodged the issue by saying it never came up.
But it's definitely been discussed many times over the years by fans, especially given the fact that Jordan did nod at the issue through the forced reincarnation of one character in another person's body (of a different sex).
Something that Jordan also left very under-developed is that there is a hint that the One Power is not actually initially a natural ability but the product of genetic engineering in our near future (the series as a whole is set thousands of years in our future, and events from our time period are occasionally mentioned as myths and legends). Exactly how that works is completely left up in the air.
Incidentally, I would recommened Mark Charan Newtorn's four-volume LEGENDS OF THE RED SUN epic fantasy series which has a trans character in the third and fourth volumes that has been received very well.
It's quite possible it works that way in the series. It just doesn't come up because Jordan never brings up trans people - other than the one forcibly reincarnated into a body of the other sex. Which isn't quite the same situation.
There is a fair bit of discussion of other gender roles: Birgitte being a soldier and the later development of a female mercenary force, whilst the Aiel, Seanchan and Sea Folk all have considerably less (or none at all) restrictions on the roles women can pursue in their societies. In fact, the fact that only women can use magic does skew gender roles in the traditional medieval/Renaissance setting away from the norms. That's something Jordan does handle quite well.
What is interesting is that Jordan was very much a feminist (or feminist ally) in his own eyes, but that was from the POV of a middle-aged guy raised in the American South in the 1950s. He was probably seen as a progressive liberal by his contemporaries, but by other standards he did see things through a more traditional lens. Charitably you can say he was trying to present a revisionist take on epic fantasy where women are equal - or even superior in some respects - in society and he occasionally got it right, occasionally got it wrong. Definitely the early books suffer from the juvenile, junior school view of the sexes in constant opposition.
I think the story and concept is very strong, though. In fact, a TV show could improve upon it by having both male and female writers to show a more balanced perspective. And it would be interesting to see if they could bring more complications to the table.
But his characterization of women and of relations between the genders is really painful sometimes.
For me at least, the characterizations of women weren't that much of an issue because most of them in the ones I read were also reasonably interesting and fleshed out characters at the same time that he was casting them in nontraditional roles; that was, and to a certain degree, still is, a bit of rarity. The only part that slightly irked me about this was that at least in the early books, the men did not get the same amount of attention, and often came off as a bit flat in comparison. If he had given all of his characters the same amount of development, I probably wouldn't even have noticed that aspect at all.
The part that really bugged me was that at least in the early books, he really played up the antagonism between the two genders to a point where it often got in the way of the rest of the story. That tension did need to be there, but that particular aspect would have been far better left as a background tension rather than the open battle that it often became. It was the way this particular part was handled that really kept me from getting into the books and caring about the rest of the story. If it had been handled with a more gentle and subtle touch, it could have been one of the centerpieces of the series instead of a near constant disruption.
I agree. One of the big problems with the gender stuff is that Rand, Mat and Perrin are presented as our primary protagonists when, looking at the whole series, it's actually Rand and Egwene who have the most cohesive and contrasting story arcs. In an adaptation, I'd make the story more about those two standing in for the gender stuff and put the other major characters (Mat, Perrin, Elayne, Nynaeve, Aviendha, Min) on a tier just below.
I'd also massively dial back the idea that the genders are at war with one another and show a much greater variety of relationships.
This is pretty good timing for me, as a few months ago I began the Wheel Of Time series for the first time, and I definitely enjoy it. I just started Lord Of Chaos, and I can see some of the criticism of Jordan being legitimate (Spanking women who get out of line? Odd...)
I find myself drawn way more to the story arcs of Mat and Perrin much more than Rand himself.
I think I may have been a little biased just coming off readinf the First Law Trilogy and then the Gentlemen Bastards, so maybe WOT comes off a little too PG at times, but overall I would love to see a quality TV series made from this material.
I would definitely not subdue any of the themes of gender because it's more of an overarching theme of duality, rather than strictly genders, that is the main theme. Good/Evil, Light/Dark, Male/Female, etc. Even the way they channel is dichotomous, with the males "seizing" and females "surrendering".
Books #1-5 are great, I think I stopped after book #7, not enough happens and I got tired of the childish relationships, especially with the women. It was like the same text was repeating over and over and over again. And of course the thousands of generic characters. I'd read most of the book and notice that nothing happened, I just read chapters about people whining about the opposite sex.
If they could find a way to condense books #5+ into something meaningful, and good screenwriters are definitely able to do this, you'd have a big hit.
Too bad about these rights issues. Maybe some day.
What is interesting is that Jordan was very much a feminist (or feminist ally) in his own eyes, but that was from the POV of a middle-aged guy raised in the American South in the 1950s. He was probably seen as a progressive liberal by his contemporaries, but by other standards he did see things through a more traditional lens. Charitably you can say he was trying to present a revisionist take on epic fantasy where women are equal - or even superior in some respects - in society and he occasionally got it right, occasionally got it wrong. Definitely the early books suffer from the juvenile, junior school view of the sexes in constant opposition.
Which would make a lot of sense if it had progressed, since in the early books the point of view characters were still at that age.