A Broodmaster's eidolons might have a lot of body slots, but he can only fill one at a time. The Summon Monster SLA could also become rather interesting as you gain levels though. A minute per level isn't a long time, but neither is the 6 seconds it would take to use the SLA again. Even if your SLA can no longer be used to qualify for feats and prestige classes it could be used for a quick change of positions.
The absence of Death Ward from the Summoner spell list makes me wonder if a Succubus can turn off her Energy Drain ability. Profane Gift could be a nice buff for the PCs, but you've got to treat your Succubus right, or she'll drain you of 2d6 Charisma later on. Her 27 Charisma and Alter Self ability are sure to make her a hit at parties, but the Erinyes is probably a little safer even though she has Animate Rope and specializes in torture.
I suppose that with Planar Ally and Planar Binding a high level Oracle could squeeze in on some of this summoning action. If he has Civilized Ghoulishness he won't even care if the Succubus can't turn off Energy Drain. In fact, it could make inviting the living to the back room at his big parties even more fun. The band might come to the after party too if the singer was Barry Wight. After that one I should probably take cover behind a tower shield before the rotten fruit starts flying...
The Rakshasa and Night Hag can change shape into humanoids too, as can the Efreet, opening up the possibility of fulfilling certain wishes without the use of the Wish spell. Perhaps it is for the best that Hound Archons don't have any feline counterparts.
I once had an Eidolon say, "Hey, I just learned a new language. Where did you pick that up?" (Moment of silence as Eidolon picks up Summoner's thoughts) "Oh no! You did NOT use that summoned azata as a 'sleeping dictionary'!"
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I still cry during the Opera. You're not alone.No, Rydia's summons really were actual creatures - she actually had to go meet them before she could summon them in the first place!
They even had their own kingdom down in the depths of the world.
Yeah, the Day Outside, Year Inside realm. There were some unusual cases involved in that game too, like one person becoming an Eidolon after death. Which made the Whytkin/"eidolon larva" thing introduced in the DS remake even less sensical. (I love almost everything else about that remake though)
There was one possible case that might have been close to what Rynjin WS thinking of, with the connection between Rydia's mother and her Eidolon, but I figured that was more of a bonded creature situation.
The Eidolons autonomy becomes more of a plot point in The After Years too.(which needs a Steam release already, SquareEnix)
(guess it's pretty obvious which FF is my favorite)
But... Celes.
:(
That whole game IS an opera.
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That whole game IS an opera.I still cry during the Opera. You're not alone.No, Rydia's summons really were actual creatures - she actually had to go meet them before she could summon them in the first place!
They even had their own kingdom down in the depths of the world.
Yeah, the Day Outside, Year Inside realm. There were some unusual cases involved in that game too, like one person becoming an Eidolon after death. Which made the Whytkin/"eidolon larva" thing introduced in the DS remake even less sensical. (I love almost everything else about that remake though)
There was one possible case that might have been close to what Rynjin WS thinking of, with the connection between Rydia's mother and her Eidolon, but I figured that was more of a bonded creature situation.
The Eidolons autonomy becomes more of a plot point in The After Years too.(which needs a Steam release already, SquareEnix)
(guess it's pretty obvious which FF is my favorite)
But... Celes.
:(
You ... I ... just ...
MIND = BLOWN
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I applaud the use of the word "fluff" in the subject line.
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Just got back from a convention involving anthropomorphics. The answer is definitely yes.
I should know, I saw lots and lots of proof.
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Since when does depraved = evil?You need to define SEX first.
Despite dictionary and science, lots of people have very different definitions they assume are the correct meaning on this one.
That said, Summoner is certainly allowed to create a female-looking eidolon for sexual recreation. I'd call this an evil action, as it really isn't any different from giving birth to a daughter for the purposes of sexual recreation. Depraved behavior.
I will note that the First World Summoner is able to create a fey eidolon, so don't restrict it to just outsiders.
Well one, perhaps of a River Kingdom decent, might argue that a summoners bond puts the Eidolon at its control, and exercising such control to have sex with the Eidolon would be tantamount to rape. The same way using Charm/Dominate person to exact the same end would be considered rape.
So I'm okay with Rape == Evil.
Now you could spin the fluff a lot of different ways out of that box, like the eidolon serves the summoner because their bond is love, and the summoner doesn't actually force his will on the eidolon, but requests and eidolon does so, but your walking a find line between exploitive and voluntary there.
So if you want to really press the issue, perhaps the eidolon's bond is formed through carnal activities, and it is the summoner who must fornicate with the eidolon as a form of payment, in which case perhaps the summoner is the one being exploited, but they are doing so for their own power.
In the real world, any tying sex with power can get sticky fast in a judicial, and ethical perspective, in a fantasy game the way your fluff is perceived is through a different lens. Just appreciate that while how you character acts doesn't necessarily mean you believe or feel the same way, no amount of claiming otherwise might not still leave your fellow gamers uncomfortable. So the extent to which you take adult themes needs to be agreed to by everyone in your game.
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Since when does depraved = evil?You need to define SEX first.
Despite dictionary and science, lots of people have very different definitions they assume are the correct meaning on this one.
That said, Summoner is certainly allowed to create a female-looking eidolon for sexual recreation. I'd call this an evil action, as it really isn't any different from giving birth to a daughter for the purposes of sexual recreation. Depraved behavior.
I will note that the First World Summoner is able to create a fey eidolon, so don't restrict it to just outsiders.
Well one, perhaps of a River Kingdom decent, might argue that a summoners bond puts the Eidolon at its control, and exercising such control to have sex with the Eidolon would be tantamount to rape. The same way using Charm/Dominate person to exact the same end would be considered rape.
So I'm okay with Rape == Evil.
Now you could spin the fluff a lot of different ways out of that box, like the eidolon serves the summoner because their bond is love, and the summoner doesn't actually force his will on the eidolon, but requests and eidolon does so, but your walking a find line between exploitive and voluntary there.
So if you want to really press the issue, perhaps the eidolon's bond is formed through carnal activities, and it is the summoner who must fornicate with the eidolon as a form of payment, in which case perhaps the summoner is the one being exploited, but they are doing so for their own power.
In the real world, any tying sex with power can get sticky fast in a judicial, and ethical perspective, in a fantasy game the way your fluff is perceived is through a different lens. Just appreciate that while how you character acts doesn't necessarily mean you believe or feel the same way, no amount of claiming otherwise might not still leave your fellow gamers uncomfortable. So the extent to which you take adult themes needs to be agreed to by everyone in your game.
Okay, so ... moral dilemma.
WHAT IF, much as the spells raise dead (and the like) specifically allow the person to decide "You know what? I don't want to come back," and the spell fails ... what if eidolons have a similar "creed" that stipulates they can tentatively read the summoner's mind, and if they strongly disagree with the intentions of the specific summoner, they themselves can refuse to be summoned?
In that sense, every eidolon-and-summoner pairing is necessarily one of mutual understanding and agreement, and this problem ceases to pose any problem whatsoever.
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Look, I don't even know why this is still part of the discussion.
If you want that to be the relationship in your game, okay then, it is.
If not, it's not.
Eidolons: Outside the linear obedience and intelligence scale of sentient and nonsentient companions are eidolons: intelligent entities magically bound to you. Whether you wish to roleplay this relationship as friendly or coerced, the eidolon is inclined to obey you unless you give a command only to spite it. An eidolon would obey a cruel summoner's order to save a child from a burning building, knowing that at worst the fire damage would temporarily banish it, but it wouldn't stand in a bonfire just because the summoner said to. An eidolon is normally a player-controlled companion, but the GM can have the eidolon refuse extreme orders that would cause it to suffer needlessly.
Voila. Pretty straight-forward. If it's a command leading to the harm of the Eidolon for your own whim, it simply won't obey (subject to GM fiat). "Rape" definitively falls under that category.
In the real world, any tying sex with power can get sticky fast in a judicial, and ethical perspective, in a fantasy game the way your fluff is perceived is through a different lens. Just appreciate that while how you character acts doesn't necessarily mean you believe or feel the same way, no amount of claiming otherwise might not still leave your fellow gamers uncomfortable. So the extent to which you take adult themes needs to be agreed to by everyone in your game.
This, on the other hand, is a very salient and solid point, however, and is well worth noting prior to delving into such ideas with any sort of gaming group.
Effectively (to answer my own question from before) the reason people keep bringing up rape is because any perceived imbalance of power makes the potential for squick a very real and very comprehensible thing.
The thing that's hard to wrap our minds around* is the fact that those sentient minds are not the same as our sentient minds. It doesn't work the same way. It's like trying to compare weight to volume - yes, both are measurable quantities that we express through numbers and there is a relationship between the two, but that relationship is density, and said density will not automatically generate you any real chemical information traits beyond exceedingly broad statements ("it's heavier to have more"; "beyond too large a number, it's radioactive"; etc.), so it's impossible to compare lithium and carbon, despite the fact that they're both relatively light solids, because, weirdly enough, carbon has more in common, chemically, with oxygen - a gas! - than lithium; and lithium more in common with rubidium. Yet carbon and lithium are only 3 protons apart - rubidium is 34 - eleven times the difference between lithium and rubidium!**
Confused, yet? That's because there are specific properties hold true under certain sets circumstances that aren't true under other sets of circumstances***, even with those other sets seem like they'd be more similar*** (and bear striking apparent relative similarity with solidity and weight)***.
This is true - as presented - of an eidolon's sentience compared to most creatures. Eidolons are not independent creatures. Their sentience, whatever the source, doesn't work the way that others' do. It's similar in many ways, and it bears a striking similarity, but ultimately they are a semi-independent ("semi-" being the important part) sentience naturally inclined to follow the orders of the creature they are bound into existence by, barring needlessly cruel orders.
Hence, if the eidolon follows it, the nature of its sentience is such, that, by definition, it's not "needlessly cruel" to the eidolon, as they do have the ability to say "no" under those circumstances.
... OR you could just talk things over with your GM and make sure things aren't too squicky for the group as a whole.
* As a collective - I'm actually pretty used to wrapping my mind around ways of thinking that aren't mine; that said, there are still many times when I'm caught off guard or confused by peoples' decisions!
** No, I don't have the table memorized. I cheated. I... wasn't a chemistry major and wasn't very good at it. Probably obvious.
*** Yes, I know how far "simplified to the point of innaccurate" that is. It's... it's an analogy, okay? Just see the above asterisk.
EDIT:
Okay, so ... moral dilemma.
WHAT IF, much as the spells raise dead (and the like) specifically allow the person to decide "You know what? I don't want to come back," and the spell fails ... what if eidolons have a similar "creed" that stipulates they can tentatively read the summoner's mind, and if they strongly disagree with the intentions of the specific summoner, they themselves can refuse to be summoned?
In that sense, every eidolon-and-summoner pairing is necessarily one of mutual understanding and agreement, and this problem ceases to pose any problem whatsoever.
Or this.
Point is, it's not an issue in the game unless you make it an issue.
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*slow clap*
*builds to crescendo*
*stands, continuing the ovation*
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*builds to crescendo*
*stands, continuing the ovation*