Flying along the ground?


Rules Questions


If one gains a fly speed that is greater than their ground speed, would they be able to fly along the ground at 0 height elevation? Or does one have to ascend first, then fly without changing altitude to use the fly speed?

Liberty's Edge

Sounds like a contradiction to me.

Taking it step by step...

0 height elevation sounds like you are standing on the ground, no space between "body" and ground. (unless you are above a pit, then you are at "ground level"

if previous statement is true (discounting the pit) then you normally move with your "ground speed".

To fly is to have your body of the ground 1/4 inch above ground is I suppose sufficient to be considered flying. But

Quote:


Without making a check, a flying creature can remain f lying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.

Hover being a DC 15 Fly skill check.

Flying along the ground at 0 elevation means to me you are scraping your skin/armor/other... along the ground. Not a really prefered method of movement in my book.

But what you are probably looking for is the following?

Quote:


Action: None. A Fly check doesn’t require an action; it is
made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

A foot or two off the ground would probably qualify as "flying at zero altitude".

Although the rules don't specify any special treatment, if you're going fast, this should be moderately difficult. For NOE (nappe of the earth) flight I would ask for a DC15 fly skill check for any reasonably irregular surface (anything except a flat desert, salt flats or lake surface) where a failure would imply collision with a terrain feature (bush, hillock, tree, stump, etc). This might imply as much as 2d6 "falling" damage if you're flying at top speed.

But of course that would be a house rule.


You can fly just above the ground, 5ft up or just above the ground makes no difference.


What I mean if I want to move from point A to point B, which is 40ft away from point A, which are both ground positions, and have a fly speed of 40ft, would I be able to just use the move action to fly there without flying upwards then downwards?


Warhawx wrote:
What I mean if I want to move from point A to point B, which is 40ft away from point A, which are both ground positions, and have a fly speed of 40ft, would I be able to just use the move action to fly there without flying upwards then downwards?

Assuming nothing is in the way (for example, a cliff wall, or a building), yes.


So I can essentially substitute my land speed with fly speed while moving in a straight line or turning 45 degrees mid-movement? (i.e. not having to make a fly check for turning >45 degrees or hover)


As far as I understand the rules: Yes.

Silver Crusade

I agree with Legowaffles. Flying at 0 elevation suggests one is scraping on the ground, but that is not relevant for game mechanics purposes. I suggest a character can fly at the same elevation they would be with feet on the ground with the only difference being there may be some fly checks depending on the situation (such as flying toward a wall).

It also occurs to me it may depend upon how the flying is done -
With wings, or the fly spell? The fly spell allows hovering with no special check needed?


Hovering refers to flying in place, not moving from your square. If he is flying forward in a straight line or turning less than 45 degrees he doesn't need to make any check. Even if he stays in place, the check to hover is pretty easy to make.


What I'm asking is whether I can fly at ground level. As in use fly, but not increase elevation from the ground, because then you'd lose speed from half movement to go up. I'm talking about wings flying, btw. I have an alchemist in medium armor, reducing his speed to 20ft, and his wings discovery fly speed to 40ft. What I'm asking is if I'm standing on the ground and there's say, a kobold 40ft away, also on the ground, instead of charging using land speed, can I use my fly speed to move over to the kobold and smack him across the face with a sword? Or rather, if that kobold is 60ft away, instead of running up to it using a full round using my land speed, can I charge it using my fly speed although both me and the target are currently on the ground?


IIRC your armor reduces your flying speed too, so your speed while flying in armor is actually 30ft (still better than 20 feet). So you could charge a kobold at 60 ft, but not one at 70.


Really? But the fly spell (which the alchemist wings are based on)already has a penalty to the movespeed (From 60ft to 30ft) for wearing medium/heavy armor? I would assume it doesn't stack, otherwise it would already have been reduced? But the main point is, I can move from ground spot to another ground spot using fly speed instead of land speed, is that correct?


Is it wings, or is it the fly extract? Because it could make a difference

I can tell you, and I am looking for the source to verify, winged creatures cannot fly in medium armor.

Edit: That restriction is on barding for mounts, not for all creatures. Nevermind.

Still the fly spell specifically list a speed for medium encumbrance.

But if you have wings instead of using the fly extract it might act differently. I'm not sure what ability you are using.


So long as you wouldn't be knocking your head against the ceiling, looks legit to me.


The fly spell text explicitly says "40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load" meaning that it's 40ft if you wear a breastplate or a full plate, but at med load it would be 40 even if you wear no armor.

The wings discovery:

The alchemist gains bat-like, bird-like, or insect-like functional wings, allowing him to fly as the fly spell for a number of minutes per day equal to his caster level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments.

Grand Lodge

I guess one example of this would be a character build I have - a small summoner who uses mounted combat on the back of a medium quadruped eidolon. My intention was to eventually take two levels of the flight evolution (granting perfect flight) and use it as part of charges - normally fight on the ground, and end the turn on the ground, but when making a charge and encountering difficult terrain, rather than being slowed by it, the eidolon pretty much just picks its feet up and glides for a few feet. Would this be a legal interpretation as a means to bypass difficult terrain?


Since the discovery specifies the fly spell but it is actual wings...I'm inclinced to just say follow the spell. But there might be room to say that since a normal flying creature with wings would have their flight speed reduced with armor, that it might still reduce your speed. But probably not.

@Hock, for what it's worth assuming you are medium or small (having 5ft reach) you can fly at 5ft off the ground and still attack everyone on the ground as need be. Assuming the ceilings aren't restricted, you can pretty much do this tactic everywhere.

In this way you are never worried about terrain or ground based traps, etc.


The thing is, taking off loses speed, since you can only fly up at a 45 degrees angle at half speed. And if you get hit you risk falling, which does no falling damage at 5ft but will make you fall prone. Unless there's a hazard on the ground, it is mostly a smarter idea to not remain flying

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Warhawx wrote:
So I can essentially substitute my land speed with fly speed while moving in a straight line or turning 45 degrees mid-movement? (i.e. not having to make a fly check for turning >45 degrees or hover)

You would most definitely need to make the fly check as you're flying considerably tighter than you would be if you were in altitude. The type of flight matters as well. If you're using big honking wings, you might have problems going through narrow doors or spaces.


Warhawx wrote:
The thing is, taking off loses speed, since you can only fly up at a 45 degrees angle at half speed. And if you get hit you risk falling, which does no falling damage at 5ft but will make you fall prone. Unless there's a hazard on the ground, it is mostly a smarter idea to not remain flying

If you always flying, the intial lose of speed to get up 5ft doesn't matter.

Yes, you risk falling. But it's a DC 10 fly check for you not to fall. You can probably make that around level 3 with relative ease. Assuming class skill, 3 skill ranks that gives you +6. Dex of 16 gives you +3 more for a 9. You literally can't fail to not fall. No fall, no prone. No worries.


Don't forget the +8 bonus from having a fly speed.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
boring7 wrote:
Don't forget the +8 bonus from having a fly speed.

There is no such bonus. Certain spell effects such as "Fly" may give you a bonus and a maneuverability class may impart a bonus (or a penalty), but there's no such bonus for having a fly speed itself.

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