|
| 5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1. When I cast a touch spell, I am allowed to touch an ally as a free action. I may move between the casting of the spell and the touch. May I make that touch in the middle of my movement?
Some argue that it is a free action, so it should be allowed at any time. Others argue that the rules specify the only times that this particular free action is allowed.
Relevant rules text:
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
2. If I hold the charge on a touch spell, can I use the free action to touch an ally when it is not my turn?
Some free actions (e.g., talking) can be taken when it is not your turn. Others (e.g., drop prone) I don't think you can take when it is not your turn.3. If I hold the charge on a touch spell, can an ally touch me to gain the benefit of that spell as a free action on their turn?
Can I cast cure light wounds and move 30 ft. toward the barbarian who is 50 ft. away, then allow them to move 20 ft. toward me and touch me to gain the benefit of the spell on their turn?
|
|
Some specific examples. Assume you are a cleric with a speed of 30 ft.
1. Can you cast cure light wounds, move 10 ft. North, touch an ally, then move 10 ft. back to your original square?
2. Can you cast wind walk, touch the ally next to you, move 10 ft. North and touch a second ally, then move 20 ft. West and touch a third ally?
3. Can you cast wind walk, then have each of your friends give you a "high 5" as they walk past you on their turn?
|
1. You may not take the touch in the middle of your movement.
2. No, to deliver a touch spell when it's not your turn you'd need to ready an action or deliver it via an attack of opportunity. You wouldn't be able to ready it the same turn you cast it unless you lowered the casting time to less than a standard action (or see answer to #3).
See the rules for this
In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.now see what a round is
When a character's turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round's worth of actions.
You can't perform free actions outside of your turn except for a few specific cases, and delivering a the free touch attack is nowhere near to what those other cases are (see the faq about it).
3. I'm of the mind the answer is no. Others will say yes. The part about "the touch spell goes off if you touch anything" is just narrative fluff that doesn't work when you combine that with the rest of the rules--but that's the crux of the argument. Short answer is just ask your GM and go with his view. If the spell literally goes off when you touch anything then you have all sorts of a can worms to deal with for players (and GMs) savvy enough to interact with enemy casters.
|
|
In response to HOWEVER. Sorry no. Let's look at the prd's text for aoos.
Attacks of Opportunity
Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity. See the Attacks of Opportunity diagram for an example of how they work.Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.
AoOs are against enemies, not allies.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1. When I cast a touch spell, I am allowed to touch an ally as a free action. I may move between the casting of the spell and the touch. May I make that touch in the middle of my movement?
Some argue that it is a free action, so it should be allowed at any time. Others argue that the rules specify the only times that this particular free action is allowed.
That one's kinda murky. Really depends on if you interpret the touch-spells-three-options clause as exhaustive or not.
2. If I hold the charge on a touch spell, can I use the free action to touch an ally when it is not my turn?
Some free actions (e.g., talking) can be taken when it is not your turn. Others (e.g., drop prone) I don't think you can take when it is not your turn.
The general rule is that you perform actions on your turn. Immediate actions and talking have specific exceptions. Anything which does not have an explicit exception must be done on your turn. See also: the "grab on an AoO" issue.
3. If I hold the charge on a touch spell, can an ally touch me to gain the benefit of that spell as a free action on their turn?
Can I cast cure light wounds and move 30 ft. toward the barbarian who is 50 ft. away, then allow them to move 20 ft. toward me and touch me to gain the benefit of the spell on their turn?
There's nothing in the rules to suggest that the "freebie" touch works for anyone but the caster (in fact, after that first turn, it's not even a free action for the caster anymore). So the ally definitely can't call it a free action.
However, since the rules explicitly say that even an accidental touch can discharge the spell, and there's nothing physically stopping someone from coming over and grabbing your outstretched hand, it's definitely possible. It's just a matter of what action it would take.
And since if you were holding out an item in your hand, I could grab it as a move action, then I'd have a hard time believing any other action type for doing the exact same thing for a touch spell charge.
EDIT: Also, the Design Team prefers one question per post for FAQ-flagging. Just FYI.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In response to HOWEVER. Sorry no. Let's look at the prd's text for aoos.
AoOs are against enemies, not allies.Attacks of Opportunity
Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity. See the Attacks of Opportunity diagram for an example of how they work.Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.
While the rules state enemies, there is nothing stopping you from treating an ally as an enemy at any time. Those actions provoke an AoO, you just usually do not take one against your ally.
|
|
EDIT: Also, the Design Team prefers one question per post for FAQ-flagging. Just FYI.
Yeah, I guess I could have separated them. It just seemed that they were closely related enough to be asked together.
Really it all boils down to the same question, which you alluded to at the beginning of your post: "Is the touch-spells-three-options clause an exhaustive list?"
|
|
There's nothing in the rules to suggest that the "freebie" touch works for anyone but the caster (in fact, after that first turn, it's not even a free action for the caster anymore).
The caster can touch up to 6 allies per round. I don't know what kind of action that is. Is it a full-round action to do so? Is it a standard action? Can you move while you are touching allies?
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There's nothing in the rules to suggest that the "freebie" touch works for anyone but the caster (in fact, after that first turn, it's not even a free action for the caster anymore).The caster can touch up to 6 allies per round. I don't know what kind of action that is. Is it a full-round action to do so? Is it a standard action? Can you move while you are touching allies?
Touch: <snip> Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
|
3. If I hold the charge on a touch spell, can an ally touch me to gain the benefit of that spell as a free action on their turn?
Can I cast cure light wounds and move 30 ft. toward the barbarian who is 50 ft. away, then allow them to move 20 ft. toward me and touch me to gain the benefit of the spell on their turn?
There's nothing in the rules to suggest that the "freebie" touch works for anyone but the caster (in fact, after that first turn, it's not even a free action for the caster anymore). So the ally definitely can't call it a free action.
However, since the rules explicitly say that even an accidental touch can discharge the spell, and there's nothing physically stopping someone from coming over and grabbing your outstretched hand, it's definitely possible. It's just a matter of what action it would take.
And since if you were holding out an item in your hand, I could grab it as a move action, then I'd have a hard time believing any other action type for doing the exact same thing for a touch spell charge.
Actually, the rules are very clear and I have bolded the relevant part:
If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges.
You, the caster, need to touch the thing or person, not the other way around. The spell don't discharge if you are hit by an arrow or sword, nor if you are grappled, or any other kind of contact initiated by another creature.
|
|
1. Normally I'd let someone do a free action during their move, but the rules on touch spells specifically call out when you can use this technique, as bolded in your first post. Short answer: no.
However, I don't feel it's clear cut, especially when you start talking about touch spells with multiple targets such as communal protection spells. These spells almost require you to make multiple touches during movement in order to function.
Full-Round Action
Use a touch spell on up to six friends
It is a full round action, so you get only a 5' step. You can touch people in the before and after making it, but you don't get a full move. So there is nothing murky here.
im pretty sure i have seen in one of the Q&A about touch spells that some1 can cast , move through his friends area up to an enemy,touch him and move back to his starting place even if the area he touchs the enemy is used by a freind. if he has enough move.(was a 30 feat move caster' who cast the touch spell,move 15 feat. into a place held by his friend and touch an enemy.then move back to his original space.)
this was to show that you can move and act through a friends place as long as you didn't end turn there. but the touch attack was put there as well. and that one was at an enemy even. not a friend.
if pressed i think i can also find the link. was in one of the Q&A from a specific book which i can't recall.( u know like hte core book Q&A or the class one).or maybe it was in the book itels takling about ending movment. i'm corently looking for the link.
|
|
im pretty sure i have seen in one of the Q&A about touch spells that some1 can cast , move through his friends area up to an enemy,touch him and move back to his starting place even if the area he touchs the enemy is used by a freind. if he has enough move.(was a 30 efat move caster who cast the touch spell,move 15 feat. into a place held by his friend and touch an enemy.then move back to his original space.)
this ws to show that you can move and act through a friends place as long as yo uiddn't end turn there. but the touch attack was put there as well. and that one was at a nenemy even. not a friend.
if pressed i think i can also find the link. was in one of the Q&A from a specific book which i can't recall.( u know like hte core book Q&A or the class one)
You can do that with Fly by attack, as it explicitly allow you to act and take a standard action mid flight.
Or with a held spell and spring attack.Not with regular moves.
|
|
1. Normally I'd let someone do a free action during their move, but the rules on touch spells specifically call out when you can use this technique, as bolded in your first post. Short answer: no.
However, I don't feel it's clear cut, especially when you start talking about touch spells with multiple targets such as communal protection spells. These spells almost require you to make multiple touches during movement in order to function.
Full-Round Action
Use a touch spell on up to six friendsIt is a full round action, so you get only a 5' step. You can touch people in the before and after making it, but you don't get a full move. So there is nothing murky here.
That bit about touching six friends as a full round action is under the heading "Holding the Charge" which is when "you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell". Thus, it remains murky for when you're trying to apply it in the round it's cast.
Anyway, that's an entirely different can of worms. Let me refer you to this other thread if you're interested:
Multiple Target Touch spells impossible to use?
It is the Actions in Combat Table under full round actions.
Then in the magic section:
Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
The table make it very clear: a full round action. You don't get to take a full move when casting and touching multiple guys.
touching 6 guys(o up to) is full round action. but you can do one as free
bring all the text next time: link
"Touch Spells in Combat
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
"
from same link page :
"Free Action
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
"
casting a touch spell give a free action to attack\hit ally and can be used while moving.
Well the closest thing i can come up with that allows a deliverance of a touchspell when its not your turn is when a ally/enemy/object touch you ( or your hands depending on the DM ) and the spell discharges into what touched you.
"Discharge" in this aspect would be that the charge basically hit the first thing you come in contact with. Gloves doesnt count, but your weapons do.
Also "Free action" is only during your own turn, the action required to do a free action during anothers turn is called a "immidiate action" and it eats your next turns swift action.
yes. i should have mantioned i only ment that in the same round that you cast the spell you ge a free action to touch with it (and like most other free actions, this has to be done in your own turn). i was answering the 1st question.
as for #2. and #3 you can use the information in the magus class about how charged spells discharge. (except of cuarse the fact that level 2 magus can use weapons to deliver them as well). link
"However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal."
and from the link i posted before "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates."
even unintentionly - mean that you can also do this intentionly. also mean that some1 else who go and touchs you to discharge it can get it cast on him.
it is only when you try and hit more then one that the rule say that you can use up to 6 touchs(if you have charges for them) on willing targets as a ful lround action. but normaly any charge you have can be discharged with a touch. be it an aoo or some1 else touching you on intent to discharge
note i marked the dissipation of a spell whe nyou acst something else to prove that when they say discharge they mean with normal effect.