Prestidigitation - How far will you go?


Homebrew and House Rules


This is for the GM's - how much will you allow a player to abuse a spell like Prestidigitation?

Prestidigitation:

PRESTIDIGITATION
School universal; Level bard 0, sorcerer/wizard 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range 10 ft.
Target, Effect, or Area see text
Duration 1 hour
Saving Throw see text; Spell Resistance no
Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

I have seen players try to do everything from lighting fires, creating blinding smoke, create sparks to "blind" creatures, and most recently a player attempted to temporarily blind a creature with the spell, citing the capability of the spell to "create small objects". How far do you let this go in your game?

Sczarni

In 2nd Edition Unearthed Arcana (or maybe just the 1st Edition Players Handbook, I can't recall) there was a list of what Prestidigitation could cover. Everything from summoning a single bee to flavoring trail rations. One of my favorites was turning your hand black so you could bluff like you were about to cast Finger of Death.

That's the sort of stuff I allow.


I was on board for lighting fires, because 3.5 prestidigitation explicitly allowed you to produce basically a lighter flame. But it looks like PF removed that option. Beyond that, I'd use this sentence from the spell description as one of my major guiding principles:
"It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters."
So, if the thing the player wants to do would, in theory, either cause damage (to an object or creature) or affect a spellcaster's concentration (even if not currently being done to a spellcaster), it is out of bounds for the spell.

(Exception for extremely obscure vulnerabilities. If the effect would not damage an average object or creature, it doesn't matter if some obscure devil takes damage from the colour red - you can still make something red with the spell.)


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I assume they attempted to make like... sand in the enemies eyes or something? I wouldn't allow it to be used offensively to blind creatures since the spell says that objects made cannot be used as weapons. I'd consider sand thrown or conjured into an enemies face a weapon.


Quote:
I was on board for lighting fires, because 3.5 prestidigitation explicitly allowed you to produce basically a lighter flame.

Ah! I was wondering where that came from, because many people think it's allowed when that's an ability that's explicitly prohibited (it would be replicating the Spark spell.)


The caster basically wanted to create a blindfold with the spell, and have it appear on the enemies' face. I ruled that it is not only far beyond the capabilities of the spell(because it creates something that is NOT a small object, and not crude), it also reproduces a Blind spell. It was certainly creative, but seemed far beyond the capabilities of the spell.


As a GM, I usually allow a clever use of prestidigation to give a +1 circumstance bonus to one roll. Generally it doesn't get to duplicate stuff other cantrips can do, and it doesn't get to do damage. It's not subtle, it's mostly intended as a fun utility spell.


I would not allow any of the uses you mentioned, Arturus, as they seem to duplicate other spells, disobey limitations listed in the spell, or require attack rolls of some kind for their precise use in combat. Besides which, what would crude and artificial smoke look like? Why would smoke even count as an object? Chilling and warming don't sound like they would be strong enough to burn or freeze anything, just adjust the temperature enough to make it more or less pleasant.

Prestidigitation can be very useful, but it's just a cantrip, after all.


Cuuniyevo wrote:

I would not allow any of the uses you mentioned, Arturus, as they seem to duplicate other spells, disobey limitations listed in the spell, or require attack rolls of some kind for their precise use in combat. Besides which, what would crude and artificial smoke look like? Why would smoke even count as an object? Chilling and warming don't sound like they would be strong enough to burn or freeze anything, just adjust the temperature enough to make it more or less pleasant.

Prestidigitation can be very useful, but it's just a cantrip, after all.

That's how I ruled. I don't want to be denying players a creative outlet, but some of the requests are pure cheese.


RumpinRufus wrote:
Quote:
I was on board for lighting fires, because 3.5 prestidigitation explicitly allowed you to produce basically a lighter flame.
Ah! I was wondering where that came from, because many people think it's allowed when that's an ability that's explicitly prohibited (it would be replicating the Spark spell.)

That's not what the word "explicitly" means. And spark works at range, so there's also that.

What would I allow?

-lighting fires: By hand. Basically you have the magic fingertip bic lighter. Doesn't really change much since a flame that small is just as prone to failure as flint and steel. You can't light a fuse from a safe distance with it, or start a fire during the rain, but you can light up dry tinder or start a fuse and then run away.

-creating blinding smoke: No, that would be a different spell. You could hose out magic smoke like Cueball's smoke-bomb technique, or light a smokestick on fire, but those are other things. Same with any other effect, it won't give a bonus in combat.

-Out of combat: You can provide yourself a circumstance bonus to certain skill checks with appropriately imaginative inventions. You can't fake a lockpick, but you can oil a rusty lock to make it work better (+2 circumstance). You can't fake a healing kit, but you can scrounge and modify cotton rags into thread and a clean bandage. You can't fabricate a disguise kit, but you can replenish one by cleaning up and recycling the materials.

Is that "too powerful" for some? Probably. I figure a +2 circumstance bonsus to the occasional skill isn't going to be that big a deal when skills are already so outshined by magic.


Prestidigitation:

Also known as Incredibly Limited Wish


boring7 wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Quote:
I was on board for lighting fires, because 3.5 prestidigitation explicitly allowed you to produce basically a lighter flame.
Ah! I was wondering where that came from, because many people think it's allowed when that's an ability that's explicitly prohibited (it would be replicating the Spark spell.)
That's not what the word "explicitly" means.
Prestidigitation wrote:
Finally, prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects.
Spark wrote:
You can make an unattended Fine flammable object catch on fire. This works as if you were using flint and steel except that you can use spark in any sort of weather and it takes much less time to actually ignite an object.


Zenogu wrote:

Prestidigitation:

Also known as Incredibly Limited Wish

You know, I've heard this one, and I appreciate the humor, but it's really not. Limited Wish allows you to "Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects." Wish goes further, saying "You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous."

While Prestidigitation does many things, it does not give any discretion for doing anything that is not stated in the spell. It can:

1) lift
2) color
3) clean
4) soil
5) chill
6) warm
7) flavor
8) create small objects

But it cannot do anything else.


I only say that because it's one of the few spells that are Universal. It has a wide variety the wish spells, in that the choices can be open-ended. When it comes to the raw power of things, that's where we remember that it's a cantrip.

To answer you directly

1) Lift, although not quite Mage Hand or Telekinesis
2) Color, but not like Prismatic Spray or a clever Disguise Self. Just color
3) Clean, but probably not to the degree that an Unseen Servant could do
4) Soil. Umm. Ewww
5) Chill, but not enough to cause obvious harm like a Ray of Frost. Maybe make your drink nice and cold
6) Warm, but nothing like a Fireball. Great for your hot coco
7) Flavor. Because flavor reasons.
8) Great for actual Magic Tricks. Like a coin behind someone's ear.


Even with just the listed uses, you can do a lot. I find that the spell seems like the duct tape of murder, covering all the little details that are so, so important with getting away with it.

Clean- so you do not get caught red handed
Soil- so someone else gets caught red handed- cover their sword in blood
Flavor- this lets you use less subtle but effective poisons in the target's food.
Warm/chill- you know, I have watched enough murder mystery shows to know the application of a freezer. For instance, what if you cut off a finger and warm it up (since it is less than 1 lb of non living matter) so that people think the murder just happened? A cold finger might make them think it happened much earlier. Overall, good for alibis.
Coloring- great for a quick disguise. They go after the red cloaked killer, and you are just standing there in your nice yellow cloak.
Item creation- nice for calling cards, and maybe masks?

Overall, you just ahve to be creative. Also, fun note- there is a trait, trifler, which lets even non-casters use prestidigitation 3/day (which is 3 hours per day due to the duration). And since that is an SLA, that means no verbal or somatic components.

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