All,
I want to play a warrior with Holy Magjc who fills the same holy warrior benefactor role as a Paladin, and with some sort of divine/healimg powers. Basically, I want to be a Paladin. But I dont like the LG restriction or the strict personal codes.
So, what would be closest?
Fighter/cleric? Is there a Ranger option that focuses on healing? Is there a Paladin archetype that doesnt have to be LG? A cavalier with healing but no mount?
Any help on how to approach such a variant would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
Oracle or inquisitor.
I would go with an inquisitor
Battle Oracle or Inquisitor.
I'd pick Inquisitor. They're pretty awesome.
I think Inquisitor fits more easily into the role too, I mean Oracles don't really have a specific god/faith they serve, whereas an inquisitor is very much devoted to one specific deity.
Inquisitor, huh? Interesting. The fluff makes them seem like bitter divine bounty hunters with a grudge, and makes them seem kinda mean. And all the pictures depict them being big into crossbows and such. I just worry whether they have the right feel for a fairly nice guy divine warrior.
Can they be Neutral Good? Do they get healing spells? (I have not looked at their spell list, and I am not home currently.) Can they use shields? Also, can they survive in melee on the front line?
Thanks!
I think Inquisitor fits more easily into the role too, I mean Oracles don't really have a specific god/faith they serve, whereas an inquisitor is very much devoted to one specific deity.
.
.Do any of these come with strict personal codes?
Inquisitor, huh? Interesting. The fluff makes them seem like bitter divine bounty hunters with a grudge, and makes them seem kinda mean. And all the pictures depict them being big into crossbows and such. I just worry whether they have the right feel for a fairly nice guy divine warrior.
Can they be Neutral Good? Do they get healing spells? (I have not looked at their spell list, and I am not home currently.) Can they use shields? Also, can they survive in melee on the front line?
Thanks!
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
Inquisitors can be any alignment. They can be built for melee, they just get some interesting ranged weapon choices. Both are viable, and honestly..the free teamwork feats they get work much better in melee (there are simply many more melee choices).
Inquisitors are basically another arm of the church. The 'ends justify the means' arm. They hunt down enemies of the church, and uphold the doctrines. They just arent particularly fussy about how they go about doing that. Being NG is perfectly fine. Pick a church your character would serve, and go out there beating the hell out of evil in its name.
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Inquisitor, huh? Interesting. The fluff makes them seem like bitter divine bounty hunters with a grudge, and makes them seem kinda mean. And all the pictures depict them being big into crossbows and such. I just worry whether they have the right feel for a fairly nice guy divine warrior.
The "iconic" is the creepy half-orc archer chick with the disturbing green cleavage, but the class is far more open than that.
Can they be Neutral Good?
Yes. They're like clerics for purposes of alignment: must be within one step of their deity's alignment.
Do they get healing spells?
Yes, Cure Light Wounds is on their list, so they can activate Happy Sticks.
(I have not looked at their spell list, and I am not home currently.)
You can look at everything on the PRD here.
Can they use shields?
Yes. They also get light and medium armor, all simple weapons, and the favored weapon of their deity.
Also, can they survive in melee on the front line?
Absolutely. With, say, a buckler and a breastplate, you're looking at an AC of 17+DEX before enhancements. Very solid. They're d8 HD, but since they get 6+INT skill ranks per level you can probably afford to put your FCB into HP (and you could even dump INT for a higher CON and still have more skill ranks than a paladin).
Fighter/cleric mix.
Inquisitor, huh? Interesting. The fluff makes them seem like bitter divine bounty hunters with a grudge, and makes them seem kinda mean. And all the pictures depict them being big into crossbows and such. I just worry whether they have the right feel for a fairly nice guy divine warrior.
Can they be Neutral Good? Do they get healing spells? (I have not looked at their spell list, and I am not home currently.) Can they use shields? Also, can they survive in melee on the front line?
Thanks!
They can do all of those things.
Another option could be cleric 4/ fighter 3 then go Chevalier, which will give you smite. Actually, going Inquisitor 8 then Chevalier might be fun.
Sounds good. Are they up on the pf srd? Guess I will take a look-see until I get home.
Much appreciated!
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Sounds good. Are they up on the pf srd? Guess I will take a look-see until I get home.
Much appreciated!
I personally recommend you look at the PRD instead of the SRD for this. The reason is that the PRD is an official source offered by Paizo, while the SRD is fan-made and therefore occasionally has inaccuracies or confusing bits. (For instance, people often mistake some of their helpful hints and shortcuts for actual game rules and end up creating builds that don't actually work like they think they do.)
The SRD is a great resource for side products and such, but I personally don't look there unless there's something I want that's not included in the PRD.
Inquisitor, huh? Interesting. The fluff makes them seem like bitter divine bounty hunters with a grudge, and makes them seem kinda mean. And all the pictures depict them being big into crossbows and such. I just worry whether they have the right feel for a fairly nice guy divine warrior.
Can they be Neutral Good? Do they get healing spells? (I have not looked at their spell list, and I am not home currently.) Can they use shields? Also, can they survive in melee on the front line?
Thanks!
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. They get medium armor and the weapon of their deity. Play a half orc and you get falchions. Once you're around 5th level you get Bane, which is pretty amazing. Judgments give you effectively full BAB. And you get good divine spells, including healing.
Jiggy,
Thanks for the link. I didnt even know about the PRD. Very cool.
The Inquisitor looks pretty cool. Only medium BAB. But lots of great options. The spell list was actually great. My only issue might be the weapon selections. I cant have both a long sword and a great sword since they are martial. I would have to pick the right god and pick up any other martial weapons with feats (if I bother).
Thanks everyone!
Jiggy,
Thanks for the link. I didnt even know about the PRD. Very cool.
The Inquisitor looks pretty cool. Only medium BAB. But lots of great options. The spell list was actually great. My only issue might be the weapon selections. I cant have both a long sword and a great sword since they are martial. I would have to pick the right god and pick up any other martial weapons with feats (if I bother).
Thanks everyone!
You can always snag one level in a martial class as well.
How does heavy armor proficiency, snagged from a dip into fighter, interact with the spellcasting? Would I be able to cast in heavy armor?
yep, they are divine spellcasters so arcane spell failure wouldn't be relevant to them.
Why not the Holy Vindicator prestige class?
Cool deal. Tho I really dont want to delay my spellcasting. So at some point I might just pick the heavy armor proficiency feat.
I also like the idea of, much later, taking the Quicken Spell feat so that I could, at high levels, use a swift True Strike with a Baned-up Judgement.
Anyway, I guess tonight I need to look for builds online. In a week or so we are going to kick off our first PF campaign. Shared universe. Multi-GM. Anyway, need to look into builds and stat placement.
Thanks!
What base class does Holy Vindicator fit onto? I am basically sold on the Inquisitor but I am open to other options.
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I believe it's for a Cleric or Paladin, but an Oracle can go into it as well...not sure about Inquisitor, though. One of the prereq's is the Channel Energy ability.
Can be found HERE
*ninja'd
I think I will stay with the Inquisitor, just because I have never played one.
Now, in that I find the spell and equipment options already good enough to make me feel like a Holy Warrior, does anyone have any suggested builds?
I was thinking of goimg Human just for spell versatility. I am considering the domain that gives bonus movement, but it isnt a given. I am torn on whether to go with toughness and ac and shields, or whether to focus on high damage, but I tend to play defensively so I was thinking damage as a change of pace.
I dont think I want to be an intimidate type guy. I will have a 25 point buy.
Any suggestions? Two weapons? Greatsword? Dagger thrower? Ok that isnt like a paladin. But I am looking for options. :)
Thanks!
Oh and I was thinking that my humans starting stats would be:
Str 17. Dex 13. Con 13. Int 12. Wis 16. Cha 10.
All,
I want to play a warrior with Holy Magjc who fills the same holy warrior benefactor role as a Paladin, and with some sort of divine/healimg powers. Basically, I want to be a Paladin. But I dont like the LG restriction or the strict personal codes.
So, what would be closest?
Fighter/cleric? Is there a Ranger option that focuses on healing? Is there a Paladin archetype that doesnt have to be LG? A cavalier with healing but no mount?
Any help on how to approach such a variant would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
Actually, I'd go with Paladin. Just not the "Lawful Goody-Two-Shoes" meat-shield paladin stereotype that's become so common.
I'd pick a patron deity that isn't LG, or at least isn't the "God of Justice and Valor" if you're looking to break the stereotype. If you're using the PFRPG campaign world, I'd suggest Abadar or Sarenrae as a patron deity. Feel free to work with your GM about making your own personal code that fits the patron deity and/or character concept.
For example, a while back (in 3.5 rules), I played Clint the paladin for months before any of the other players figured out he was a paladin-- everyone assumed he was a fighter or a fighter/rogue until he started turning undead. The character concept was "The Man With No Name" from the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns (hence the name). He was a paladin of the LN god Saint Cuthbert, whose high stats were DEX and CHA. He wore a chain shirt under a wool poncho. He used two rapiers (weapon focus, weapon finesse, two-weapon fighting) or a light crossbow (point-blank shot).
In personality, he was grim, gruff, a heavy drinker, smoked cigars, frequented brothels (where such places were legal), and would never turn down a personal challenge. At the same time, he was courteous to everyone (sometimes scarily so), was kind to children, and went out of his way to help out people in need. Nothing about being Lawful Good precluded any of this.
One quirk was that he disapproved of looting the corpses of slain enemies of their arms or armor. He thought that honor dictated that slain enemies be buried with them. (This prompted the party to start capturing enemies and handing them over to local authorities... he had no qualms about taking arms and armor away from prisoners!)
If you can get your hands on a copy of "Faiths of Purity," codes for paladins of the appropriately-aligned deities can give you a bit more to go on, assuming that your GM has set your game in Golarion.
Good luck!
--Hal
Haladir,
Thanks for the reply.
As for Lawful Good, I don't like being Lawful. That is my thing I want to avoid. Nor do I particularly want a character who follows a god with a Lawful ethos, even if the Paladin could be NG.
Also, at this point, I'm pretty excited to try an Inquisitor.
Anyway, I also happen to hate Sarenrae, and I find the LN god of civilization to a bit boring. I do really like your character though, other than the cigars. :)
As for the setting, it is going to be a shared setting, a multi-GM game. We are all a bit new to Pathfinder, in that we only played 2 or 3 sessions last year but it never got started. Anyway, so about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time, I will be the GM. The rest of the time I will be a player. It will be a cross-dimensional game, in that we will have access to the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, and Golarion. Which world will be the "main" world is undecided, but clerics and divine powers will work seamlessly due to the mechanism we have set up. So bottom line, I could easily use any Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms deity.
The main thing is that we are going to only use the Pathfinder rules and books though (other than whatever domain combos the Gods of the various settings allow in conjunction).
Oh btw Jiggy, your character seems interesting, though I dont quite follow it entirely. Is Armor Expert that vital?
What is Conversion Inquisition exactly? Or where is it from? I guess I should read the thread closer. What future feats do you plan on?
Well, I guess I've de-railed my own thread now. Oops. :)
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What you are looking for is the Holy Warrior cleric "archetype" from 'Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting'
Taking the above ability requires a cleric to give up both of her domains, including her domain powers."
You keep Channel Energy, that's rather nice imho.
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Oh btw Jiggy, your character seems interesting, though I dont quite follow it entirely. Is Armor Expert that vital?
Well, for a big strong holy warrior man, I don't want him to need his hand held if he encounters water or a slope, so Armor Expert serves as a trait version of the Athletic feat to help him be a little more self-sufficient. It's a trait that helps preserve his hardcore-ness. ;)
What is Conversion Inquisition exactly? Or where is it from?
Ultimate Magic. An inquisition is selected in place of a domain (would be a subpar choice for other domain users, as it grants no spells - but that's the norm for inquisitors). The first-level power this one grants is that I use WIS instead of CHA for Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff. Later on, I can dominate people.
I guess I should read the thread closer. What future feats do you plan on?
Dunno yet. Weapon Focus is a top candidate for 3rd level, but I typically don't plan very far in advance - at least, not with any kind of precision.
What you are looking for is the Holy Warrior cleric "archetype" from 'Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting'
** spoiler omitted **
You keep Channel Energy, that's rather nice imho.
.
.I wonder if it would fly to trade the Rogue's sneak-attack for this kind of bonus.
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This is the level 20 Inquisitor in my Age of Worms campaign. He was played from level 5 to 20. I should mention a couple of house rules.
1) All characters have maximum hit points. Age of Worms is very dangerous and I needed to do something so they didn't have to rest after every fight.
2) Keen and Improved Critical stack. We also use the Critical Hits and Miss decks.
3) 20 point buy.
That's it really.
VARG CR 19
LN Medium Humanoid (Orc)
Init +13; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Scent; Perception +29
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DEFENSE
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AC 44, touch 23, flat-footed 39. . (+12 armor, +6 shield, +5 Dex, +3 natural, +4 deflection)
hp 280 (20d8+120); Judgement of Sacred Healing 7
Fort +22, Ref +18, Will +23
Defensive Abilities Judgement of Sacred Protection +5 / +10, Stalwart; DR Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 5 (Chaos); Resist Judgement of Sacred Purity +5 / +10, Judgement of Sacred Resistance 14 (Fire)
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Silversheen Dagger
Silversheen: Count as silver & immune to rusting +19/+14/+9 (1d4+16/19-20/x2) and
. . +4 Icy Burst, Keen, Speed Silversheen Greataxe
Silversheen: Count as silver & immune to rusti +22/+22/+17/+12 (1d12+26/18-20/x3)
Ranged +1 Seeking Longbow, Composite
Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability. The weapon ve +21/+16/+11 (1d8+7/20/x3)
Special Attacks Exploit Weakness, Greater Bane (+2 / 4d6) (26 rounds/day), Holy Lance for 10 rounds (4 rounds/day), Judgement of Sacred Justice +5 / +10, Judgement of Sacred Piercing +7, Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic, Law, Adamantin, Judgement of Sacred Destruction +9, True Judgement (DC 26)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Alignment (At will), Discern Lies (20 rounds/day), Touch of Good (9/day)
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 20, +18 melee touch, +20 ranged touch):
6 (6/day) Undeath to Death (DC 22), Heal (DC 22), Circle of Death (DC 22), Harm (DC 22), Overwhelming Presence (DC 22)
5 (6/day) Righteous Might (DC 21), Flame Strike (DC 21), Disrupting Weapon (DC 21), Commune (DC 21), Unwilling Shield (DC 21)
4 (6/day) Stoneskin (DC 20), Invisibility, Greater (DC 20), Cure Critical Wounds (DC 20), Freedom of Movement (DC 20), Battlemind Link (DC 20), Sanctify Armor (DC 20)
3 (6/day) Heroism (DC 19), Cure Serious Wounds (DC 19), Remove Disease (DC 19), Searing Light, Coordinated Effort, Terrible Remorse (DC 19)
2 (7/day) Restoration, Lesser (DC 18), See Invisibility (DC 18), Cure Moderate Wounds (DC 18), Silence (DC 18), Invisibility (DC 18), Weapon of Awe (DC 18)
1 (7/day) Divine Favor (DC 17), Hide from Undead (DC 17), Cure Light Wounds (DC 17), Bless, Detect Undead, True Strike (DC 17)
0 (at will) Resistance (DC 16), Disrupt Undead, Detect Poison, Bleed (DC 16), Stabilize, Detect Magic
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STATISTICS
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Str 18/24, Dex 14/20, Con 14/20, Int 12/18, Wis 17/23, Cha 8
Base Atk +15; CMB +22; CMD 45
Feats Coordinated Defense, Critical Focus, Escape Route, Eschew Materials, Extended Bane, Improved Critical: Greataxe, Keen Scent, Lightning Reflexes, Lookout, Outflank, Paired Opportunists, Power Attack -4/+8, Spell Penetration, Swap Places, Toughness +20, Weapon Focus: Greataxe
Traits Reactionary, Unbreakable Hate
Skills Acrobatics +6, Appraise +8, Bluff +6, Climb +10, Concentration: Inquisitor +28, Diplomacy +6, Escape Artist +2, Fly +2, Heal +13, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (Arcana) +27, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +27, Knowledge (Local) +24, Knowledge (Nature) +27, Knowledge (Planes) +27, Knowledge (Religion) +27, Perception +29, Ride +2, Sense Motive +28, Spellcraft +22, Stealth +15, Swim +10, Use Magic Device +19 Modifiers Monster Lore
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Orc, Treant
SQ Inquisitor Domain: Good, Orc Ferocity (1/day), Slayer (Ex), Solo Tactics (Ex), Teamwork Feat (change 6/day), Third Judgement (7/day) (Su), Track +10
Combat Gear +1 Seeking Longbow, Composite
Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability. The weapon ve, +1 Silversheen Dagger
Silversheen: Count as silver & immune to rusting, +4 Icy Burst, Keen, Speed Silversheen Greataxe
Silversheen: Count as silver & immune to rusti, +5 Dragonhide Buckler
Dragonhide: No longer counts as metal., Celestial Plate Armor; Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Belt of Physical Perfection, +6, Cloak of Resistance, +5, Handy Haversack (empty), Headband of Mental Prowess, INT & WIS +6: Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nature), Ring of Protection, +4, Wand of Halt Undead
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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+1 Silversheen Dagger
Silversheen: Count as silver & immune to rusting - 0/1
Discern Lies (20 rounds/day) (Sp) - 0/20
Greater Bane (+2 / 4d6) (26 rounds/day) (Su) - 0/26
Holy Lance for 10 rounds (4 rounds/day) (Su) - 0/4
Orc Ferocity (1/day) - 0/1
Teamwork Feat (change 6/day) - 0/6
Third Judgement (7/day) (Su) - 0/7
Touch of Good (9/day) (Sp) - 0/9
Wand of Halt Undead - 0/20
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Coordinated Defense +2 CMD if you are adjacent to an ally with this feat.
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Discern Lies (20 rounds/day) (Sp) Discern Lies at will
Escape Route You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when moving through spaces adjacent to allies
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Exploit Weakness (Ex) With a crit, ignore DR, suppress Regen, and take advantage of vulnerability.
Greater Bane (+2 / 4d6) (26 rounds/day) (Su) Make the weapon you are holding a bane weapon.
Holy Lance for 10 rounds (4 rounds/day) (Su) A melee weapon you are holding becomes holy
Inquisitor Domain: Good Granted Powers: You have pledged your life and soul to goodness and purity.
Judgement of Sacred Healing 7 (Su) Fast Healing
Judgement of Sacred Justice +5 / +10 (Su) Attack bonus
Judgement of Sacred Piercing +7 (Su) Concentration and vs. SR bonus
Judgement of Sacred Protection +5 / +10 (Su) AC bonus
Judgement of Sacred Purity +5 / +10 (Su) Save bonus
Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 5: Chaos (Su) DR/magic
Judgement of Sacred Resistance 14: Fire (Su) Energy Resistances
Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic, Law, Adamantine) (Su) DR bypass
Lookout Act in the surprise rouns if an adjacent ally with this feat can act in the surprise round.
Monster Lore +6 (Ex) +6 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) 1/day, when brought below 0 HP but not killed, you can fight on for 1 more round as if disabled. The next round, unless brought to at least 0 HP, you immediately fall unconscious and begin dying.
Outflank Flanking bonus increases to +4 if the other flanker also has this feat, and ally gets an AoO if you score a critical hit against the target.
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and an ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Slayer (Ex) Selected Judgement is at +5 effective levels
Slayer Judgement of Sacred Destruction +9 (Su) Weapon Damage bonus.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Spell Penetration +2 to caster levels checks to overcome spell resistance.
Stalwart (Ex) If you succeed at a Fort or Will save for reduced effect, you take none instead.
Swap Places You can trade places with an ally with this feat during your movement.
Teamwork Feat (change 6/day) Swap your most recent Teamwork feat for another
Third Judgement (7/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Touch of Good (9/day) (Sp) Grant +10 to skill checks, ability checks and saving throws for 1r.
Track +10 +10 to survival checks to track.
True Judgement (DC 26) (Su) At 20th level, an inquisitor can call true judgment down upon a foe during combat.
Whenever an inquisitor uses her judgment ability, the inquisitor can invoke true judgment on a foe as a swift action. Once declared, the inquisitor can make a s
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The Holy Warrior cleric is from the 3.5 days. If you care about balance, do not allow it. They did not have Channel Energy back then.
Bob, you have a level 20 character with +1 weapons? I suppose GMW, but I wouldn't want to rely on that.
The next weapon it lists is his primary weapon: +4 Icy Burst, Keen, Speed Silversheen Greataxe.
My players always try to keep a dagger with them and some keep other light weapons as well. They have been victims to being swallowed whole and those with survival skills know that you don't skin a boar with a greataxe.
We are using only PF stuff from the main rulebook, the advanced players guide, ultimate magic and ultimate combat. And possibly the golarion setting stuff such as Magic of the Inner Sea etc tho nobody has yet.
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Inquisitor sounds great for what you want. They can fill a similar fighting role easily if you pick combat-based feats - your justice judgment will bring your BAB around full if you need it, and Bane is beautiful. I played an Inquisitor recently who was roleplayed as a paladin-style knight, but an investigator rather than a leader (high Wis, middling Cha, more skills, and loved Detect Alignment and Discern Lies).
For something completely different: Ranger. Full BAB, healing spells with a higher caster level with Magical Knack trait, Favored Enemies for the anti-evil stuff, and the animal companion for the paladin mount. Bonus are the combat feats that allow you to avoid prereqs, so you can go switch hitter, archer, or sword & board fighting more easily.
cheers
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I agree with Jubal-- Ranger seems to have everything the OP wanted right out of the box, and then whatever Paladin attitude you wanted could be roleplayed.
But if you like the idea of Inquisitor, then how about a full-blown Chaotic Good Inquisitor of Cayden Cailean? His job is to seek out those who need to take the stick out and loosen up, as well as to protect the downtrodden who have fallen through the cracks of the law.
Or perhaps an Inquisitor of Shelyn, who protects the sanctity of music and beauty and opposes those who can't appreciate art for art's sake? You'd have glaive proficiency, and could keep enemies at range while you cast spells just out of their threatened area!