Don't have the AP5 yet (is it a "At that location", "When closing" or "When Permanently Closed" power?) but what's interestning is that both options would be fun, athough quite different. I'll let Mike or Vic tell us the right version but here are my first thoughts before the guys on the other side of the pond wake up.
Now since it says "from the blessing deck" and not "from the blessing discard" I don't see the point in recharging a deck under itself (pretty much it's shuffling it). So I guess it has to be recharging under your deck... But not sure. Anyway it's puzzling so it deserves a bit of clarity.
Now to extrapolate for the sake of potential ideas for the future :
A) Recharging the blessing DISCARD under the blessing deck would be a nice idea : what it would mean is you would get the benefit of a Holy Candle (+1d6 turns to finish scenario). Makes sense only if it happens once per scenario so if it's a "When Permanently Closed" power. Would be a nice improvement over the Holy Candle (a bit overpowered), since it would be location driven (so you only include it in a scenario if you need a little more than 30 turns - especially if you need that when the number of characters is high).
B) Recharging the blessing DISCARD under your own deck would be a different but also nice idea : would give you standard benefit/versatility of getting a lot of blessings, but not with immediate impact (not directly in your hand) - and with a double twist unless you can reshuffle your deck before drawing those blessings: 1) you may end up the game only drawing blessings (i. e. becoming a support character if you are out of weapons/spells for example) and 2) if you look to a specific card in your deck you can afford to draw all your normal deck cards since you still will have those blessings at the end of your deck to avoid dying.
C) Recharging the blessing DECK under your own deck would be a different but also nice idea : you lose that many turns on the scenario, but ONE of the characters wins as much explorations instead (maybe more if he can recharge or somehow recycle those blessings). Could lead some interestning scenario specific strategies (depending of the scenario data, goal, villain, henchmen, locations... you may want a specific character to be able to play more than the others... would be fun especially if the location was included in scenarios needing different competencies).
So many ways to make that game even better... Mike, you are the man...
Recharge is already defined in the book:
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.
So the cards go under your character deck.
Pretty much, what the spring does is it takes away time (removes blessings from the blessing deck) but 'heals' the character using it (puts cards into the character deck). Think of it as the person spending a bit of time soaking in the springs to get rejuvenated.
Sounds to me like you heal the player and gain some new blessings at significant cost to time.
Recharge is already defined in the book:
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.So the cards go under your character deck.
Pretty much, what the spring does is it takes away time (removes blessings from the blessing deck) but 'heals' the character using it (puts cards into the character deck). Think of it as the person spending a bit of time soaking in the springs to get rejuvenated.
Discard is already defined in the book as well.
"Discard: Put it into your discard pile—a stack of faceup cards next
to your deck."
Are you seriously telling me that if you are told to discard a card from the blessing deck, you discard it into your own discard pile?
edit: A more relevant rule "If you are instructed to play, reveal, display, discard, recharge, bury, banish, or otherwise manipulate a card, that card must come from your hand unless otherwise specified." If Sacred Spring specifies recharging from the blessing deck, I would assume you also recharge to the blessing deck.
Sacred Spring can let you "recharge a random 1d6 cards from the blessings deck". When you recharge these cards, do they go under your own deck or under the blessings deck?
(We couldn't figure it out at the table, so we just didn't use that power.)
Can you give the full text of the card? When does this power come up?
I agree with Frencois and Orbis; recharging cards FROM (presumably the top of) the Blessings deck UNDER the Blessings deck would just be a pointless movement of cards. Even if you have somehow peeked at the top N cards of the deck, the benefit of doing this would barely qualify as marginal.
Taking blessings from the deck and recharging them under your character deck gives you healing & new blessings at a significant time cost. This seems the most likely interpretation, given the OP's quote.
Interesting point about discarding from the blessings deck. Although it seems fairly obvious that when you're told to discard cards from that deck, the intention is to put the card in the blessings discard pile, I can't see it written anywhere in the S&S rules. Nor is it clear why we should make different assumptions for discard vs recharge. Definitely FAQworthy.
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Interesting point about discarding from the blessings deck. Although it seems fairly obvious that when you're told to discard cards from that deck, the intention is to put the card in the blessings discard pile, I can't see it written anywhere in the S&S rules. Nor is it clear why we should make different assumptions for discard vs recharge. Definitely FAQworthy.
The blessings discard pile is mentioned.
Advance the Blessings Deck: At the start of your turn, flip the top card from the blessings deck faceup onto the top of the blessings discard pile. ...
Sacred Spring can let you "recharge a random 1d6 cards from the blessings deck". When you recharge these cards, do they go under your own deck or under the blessings deck?
(We couldn't figure it out at the table, so we just didn't use that power.)
Thematically a sacred spring would give you a bunch of blessings. Would this be an opportunity to remove some Blessings of the Gods from the game during the rebuild?
Theryon: presumably Nefrubyr is talking about non-Advancement discards like the one on Blood Moon Pirate. ("...after you act, discard the top card of the blessings deck.")
DeanG: Rebuild does not banish, so you can't remove BotGs during rebuild.
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Orbis, a significant cost to time indeed. I'm pretty random in my d6 rolls, except for when it came to the Holy Candle, it was always a 5 or 6. I feel like I should be afraid to use this power!
Thematically a sacred spring would give you a bunch of blessings. Would this be an opportunity to remove some Blessings of the Gods from the game during the rebuild?Sacred Spring can let you "recharge a random 1d6 cards from the blessings deck". When you recharge these cards, do they go under your own deck or under the blessings deck?
(We couldn't figure it out at the table, so we just didn't use that power.)
No, because you don't banish cards when you rebuild your deck.
Theryon: presumably Nefrubyr is talking about non-Advancement discards like the one on Blood Moon Pirate. ("...after you act, discard the top card of the blessings deck.")
I wanted to add that the basic notion of discarding cards from the blessing deck also appears in the core rules.
"If a ship that is already wrecked is successfully dealt any Structural damage, discard a number of cards from the blessings deck equal to
the amount of damage successfully dealt to the ship."
Apologies, I misspoke. The cards do in fact come from the blessings <i>discard</i>, not the blessings <i>deck</i>.
OK. It sounds like this is meant to work like Holy Candle.
Okay, in that case it probably is meant to go under the Blessings Deck and not the player's deck, in which case an errata/FAQ should probably be added, in my opinion.
But they should totally make a card that recharges the blessings deck under your deck. Kinda like that ship that lets you discard a blessing from the blessing deck to heal a card.
But they should totally make a card that recharges the blessings deck under your deck. Kinda like that ship that lets you discard a blessing from the blessing deck to heal a card.
I agree that this would be a cool card but imagine the possible problems. You find the villain and have other locations closed or sure to be easily temp closed. Now we drain the blessings deck to one card before we take down the villain? Seems not really sporting to grab, I don't know, 1 to 6 blessings (if it was still a d6) to pick from.
Well, you wouldn't want to play such a hypothetical card if there were less than 6 blessings in the blessing deck. Because if you roll a 6, you just got yourself in a situation where you need to remove a card from the deck and there isn't one.
Right so for this hypothetical card, if we have 6 or more cards in the Blessings deck, we don't take out the villain for good until we use it to grab 1 to 6 Blessings ... Not sure I can put my finger on it but it seems too pat. I know that sometimes we count the remaining blessings and decide whether we can go "shopping" at a location like the General Store but I think this hypothetical would be better if there was some kind of risk to it ...
Recharge is already defined in the book:
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.So the cards go under your character deck.
Pretty much, what the spring does is it takes away time (removes blessings from the blessing deck) but 'heals' the character using it (puts cards into the character deck). Think of it as the person spending a bit of time soaking in the springs to get rejuvenated.
Discard is already defined in the book as well.
"Discard: Put it into your discard pile—a stack of faceup cards next
to your deck."Are you seriously telling me that if you are told to discard a card from the blessing deck, you discard it into your own discard pile?
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My apologies, you're quite correct in that I was assuming something in the rules based on pure definition. I was partly asleep at that point and that's one of the things that didn't occur to me. The other is that you're not 'playing' the card that's being recharged by the spring, which is what that section in the rules is about.
"When you play a card, it will usually require you to take one of the following actions."I don't have the card, and my thoughts were based on what was mentioned as the text on the card, but that information appears incorrect now, too, as it's recharged from the Blessing Discard pile.
So either the Sacred Spring heals your character or actually gives your party more time depending on where it's recharged to (which still needs to be determined).
As a matter of fact, you also made me notice a point that nobody seems to have noticed before. Discarding isn't properly defined in the book, because the only mention of what Discarding is is in the play a card section mentioned above. The only reference to the Blessing Discard Pile doesn't even use the word "Discard," but instead simply says "Flip the top card from the blessing deck faceup onto the top of the blessing discard pile."
So in truth, with the current rules, if a card says to "discard a card from the blessing deck," by the rules as written, that card is supposed to go into YOUR (the character's) discard pile. I don't think this is as intended, and everyone else has been assuming that when you discard from the blessing deck, it goes to the blessing discard. However, that's not actually in the rules. Recharging to the Blessing Deck isn't in the rules, either, thus leading to this question about the Spring. The only mention of Recharge is that it goes into your Character Deck.
The Structural Damage section of the rules doesn't even mention the Blessings Discard pile, but instead simply says "discard a number of cards from the blessings deck equal to the amount of damage successfully dealt to the ship."
Even Holy Candle specifically references what it's working with; it shuffles into the Blessing Deck from the Blessing Discard pile, and it specifically uses both terms for that.
In the rules, the only time the Blessings Discard pile is even referenced (other than the picture of layout and a sidebar to keep track of whose turn it is) is in the Example of Play and the Advance the Blessing Deck section under the Your Turn heading (which uses the text above).
It seems we've all been playing the game based on a pure assumption that isn't even in the rules, and that should definitely be remedied.
EDIT: Nefrubyr did notice it earlier and I didn't notice Nefrubyr's notice of it when I was reading the posts.
EDIT: Upon further reading, every mention of Banish in the rules is based purely on the definition of it in the Playing Cards section. Nowhere in the rules along with Banish does it actually mention returning it to the box other than that section.
All references to the terms in the Playing Cards section are based purely on that section and nowhere else. So unless a card specifically says it goes somewhere else when you Reveal, Display, Discard, Recharge, Bury, or Draw, it ends up somewhere in your character play area (hand, deck, discard, or character card).
This definitely doesn't seem as intended, but by the rules, is correct.
The rules do specifically state that "If you are instructed to play, reveal, display, discard, recharge, bury, banish, or otherwise manipulate a card, that card must come from your hand unless otherwise specified." However, it doesn't specify where those cards go if those actions don't occur from your hand, so it still defaults to back into your character area.
*sits can of fishing bait in the middle of the room*
Nice discussion thanks to all of you.
If I summarize, seems the Spring is a location based Holy candle (as per my previuous post). Great.
And seems a card in the future than would make you draw from the blessing DISCARD to get cards (that would end up in your hand, own discard or anywhere in your own deck) would be a nice addition to the game. Cool.
Firedale,
I agree with you that the terms should be defined more generally, rather than only in the section on 'Playing Cards'.
However, i disagree with your assessment of "Rule as Written." The absence of rules doesn't change the fact that words in 'playing Cards' only apply in the specific case you actually play cards. What is playing card?
"Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card. If a power says using it counts as playing a boon, it counts as playing a card
You can't use them when you "apply effects" or "take damage", or "close a location" because those aren't "playing cards'. The fact that we need general rules doesn't make the rules we have apply more broadly, even by RAW.
I'd actually disagree a bit with that. I think the "actions" described in playing cards should be read as generally defining what those terms mean. The list of actions is introduced with this sentence:
When you play a card, it will usually require you to take one of the following actions.
Just because it defines those actions while talking about playing cards, doesn't mean those actions are only defined that way when you are playing cards. Those actions have you do the same thing with your cards whether you are playing them or not. In other words, the fact that the actions are defined in the section on playing cards doesn't mean that those terms only mean those things when you are playing cards. Most of the action terms are definied without reference to the powers. And the few that are (reveal and display) are done in such a way that the power part is secondary to defining the action. That fact, taken with this sentence:
Doing something with a card that does not use a power on that card does not count as playing that card.
To me, that is saying "Here are a definition of actions. If you play a card, you have to take one of these actions. But you can also take these actions a part from playing powers."
Look at reveal.
Reveal: Show it from your hand then put it back in your hand. You may not reveal the same card for its power more than once per check or step.
The second sentence is specifically about how reveal relates to powers on a card. But the first sentence simply defines what the term "reveal" means for PACG. The first sentence doesn't really care about playing cards.
So I think the list of actions is fine and communicates the manipulation of the cards, both as relates to powers and as relates to things that aren't powers.
Now, as for discarding from the blessing deck and recharging the blessing discard pile, that I do agree isn't specifically defined. It is probably like the "reaction powers", something we are all doing correctly despite it not being specified in the rules. (Which just goes to show you how hard it must be to write rules.)
I think a section about the blessing deck and discard pile would clarify that. It could say "If you are told to discard blessings from the blessing deck, put them in the blessing discard pile. If you are told to recharge cards from the blessing discard pile, put them under the blessing deck."
Just my opinion of course.
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Having gotten my cards yesterday, I pulled this one immediately to look at the wording.
When Permanently Closed On closing, you may banish a card to recharge 1d6 random cards from the blessings discard pile. At the start of your turn, you may recharge a card to recharge a card from your discard pile.
You're correct that it does not say you are recharging back to the Blessings deck but upon reading this text, I got the feeling that you're sacrificing a hit point (a card) in order to provide more time for the party (recharging back to the blessings deck). Then you have the option of restoring a hit point (recharging your own cards).
I doubt after reading the second sentence that the first one is meant to recharge discarded blessings to your own deck.
[EDIT: Definitely need to read the entire text to get a better feel for the meaning behind the recharge!]
Having gotten my cards yesterday, I pulled this one immediately to look at the wording.
When Permanently Closed On closing, you may banish a card to recharge 1d6 random cards from the blessings discard pile. At the start of your turn, you may recharge a card to recharge a card from your discard pile.You're correct that it does not say you are recharging back to the Blessings deck but upon reading this text, I got the feeling that you're sacrificing a hit point (a card) in order to provide more time for the party (recharging back to the blessings deck). Then you have the option of restoring a hit point (recharging your own cards).
I doubt after reading the second sentence that the first one is meant to recharge discarded blessings to your own deck.
[EDIT: Definitely need to read the entire text to get a better feel for the meaning behind the recharge!]
Or, you're making an offering to the sacred spring to gain health in the form of 1-6 recharged blessings, and further, that you can do other recharges on subsequent turns. This is kind of a "cards do what they say, don't do what they don't say" situation?
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Or, you're making an offering to the sacred spring to gain health in the form of 1-6 recharged blessings, and further, that you can do other recharges on subsequent turns. This is kind of a "cards do what they say, don't do what they don't say" situation?
True, but I'd still play it that you're recharging the Blessings deck and giving the party more time.
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Or, you're making an offering to the sacred spring to gain health in the form of 1-6 recharged blessings, and further, that you can do other recharges on subsequent turns. This is kind of a "cards do what they say, don't do what they don't say" situation?
Also, if you were making an offering to the Sacred Spring for more health (NOTE: temporary health!), you'd probably only bury a card. A banish would be kinda pricey for that. And then on top of that being able to recharge some more?
It makes more sense that it is a sacrifice for the party's sake to provide them more time than a bump in health ... twice.
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When Permanently Closed On closing, you may banish a card to recharge 1d6 random cards from the blessings discard pile. At the start of your turn, you may recharge a card to recharge a card from your discard pile.
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.
Seems pretty clear cut to me. Swap in the rulebook definitions for the words and it comes out to:
When Permanently Closed On closing, you may banish a card to put facedown at the bottom of your character deck 1d6 random cards from the blessings discard pile. At the start of your turn, you may put facedown at the bottom of your character deck a card to put facedown at the bottom of your character deck a card from your discard pile.
Basically you're banishing a card to get 1d6 free blessings. Pretty good deal, but it only happens once per scenario, only if the scenario lists it as a location, and only if you can close the location in time. Plus you have to banish a card, which in AP5 is much more of a difficult choice, as you'll have some pretty neat cards by that point.
Pyrocat, I will go back to my earlier question. When you have to discard cards for the blessing deck, do you put those in the Blessing Discard Pile or in your own discard pile? Because the exact same argument applies there, and I have yet to see any one argue that they place such blessings in their own discard pile..
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I will concede that every where that Recharge is defined, it states that the cards go to the bottom of your character deck.
I will concede that the rule states that Cards Don’t Do What They Don’t Say.
But I also don't blindly follow those rules when they don't seem to follow what I read as the intent of the card. As stated before, there are two sentences.
The first offers you a chance to sacrifice/banish a card to recharge 1d6 blessings from the blessings discard deck. The second offers you a chance to recharge a card from your discard deck (if you'll recharge a card from your hand first).
If the first was offered without the second, I could see it being from the blessings discard to your character deck. But the second sentence is offering to repair the damage done by the banished card, effectively. Two chances for recharges? I don't see that as the intent. And that's why I won't substitute the exact words from the rulebook (for Recharge) into the text of the card.
And I also concede that the card needs a FAQ entry to clear this up.
Pyrocat, I will go back to my earlier question. When you have to discard cards for the blessing deck, do you put those in the Blessing Discard Pile or in your own discard pile? Because the exact same argument applies there, and I have yet to see any one argue that they place such blessings in their own discard pile..
Wait ... that's not how you play it? Oh man ...
Because there's no definition of Recharge outside of that in the rulebook, could people not also interpret Sacred Spring as the following?
When Permanently Closed: On closing, you may banish a card to recharge 1d6 random cards from the blessings discard pile to the blessing deck. At the start of your turn, you may recharge a card to recharge a card from your discard pile to your character deck.
It's different from the interpretation above, but still makes perfect sense to me because it mentions two different discard piles.
Outside of the literal interpretation as posed by Pyrocat, it can be interpreted almost however you -want- it to be. Pyrocat's wording follows the rules as written, and so is (technically and currently) correct. Joshua Birk 898, currently, by the rules, yep, when you discard a card from the blessing deck, it's supposed to go to your character discard pile. Do most people play that way? Most likely not, but by the rules currently, they're playing wrong.
I'm 99.99% sure that that's not as intended, but by the rules, it is what it is. That's why I feel the definitions need to be clarified for what they are and how they work for each section. People are playing the game under assumptions that aren't in the rules, and different people sometimes assume different things, sometimes leading to drastically different options and results.
It's been whipped into us that the cards and rules do what they say and don't do what they don't say.
The rules do not say that discarded cards from the blessing deck go into the discard pile. The rules do say that discarded cards go into your character's discard pile.
The rules do not say that cards recharged from the blessing discard pile go into the blessing deck. The rules do say that recharged cards go into your character deck.
I'm pretty sure that's not as intended, and so it needs to be remedied. If it's not remedied, then it means it's as intended, and we've all been playing wrong.
We are discussing this.
Because there's no definition of Recharge outside of that in the rulebook, could people not also interpret Sacred Spring as the following?
When Permanently Closed: On closing, you may banish a card to recharge 1d6 random cards from the blessings discard pile to the blessing deck. At the start of your turn, you may recharge a card to recharge a card from your discard pile to your character deck.
It's different from the interpretation above, but still makes perfect sense to me because it mentions two different discard piles.
Outside of the literal interpretation as posed by Pyrocat, it can be interpreted almost however you -want- it to be. Pyrocat's wording follows the rules as written, and so is (technically and currently) correct. Joshua Birk 898, currently, by the rules, yep, when you discard a card from the blessing deck, it's supposed to go to your character discard pile. Do most people play that way? Most likely not, but by the rules currently, they're playing wrong.
I'm 99.99% sure that that's not as intended, but by the rules, it is what it is. That's why I feel the definitions need to be clarified for what they are and how they work for each section. People are playing the game under assumptions that aren't in the rules, and different people sometimes assume different things, sometimes leading to drastically different options and results.
It's been whipped into us that the cards and rules do what they say and don't do what they don't say.
The rules do not say that discarded cards from the blessing deck go into the discard pile. The rules do say that discarded cards go into your character's discard pile.
The rules do not say that cards recharged from the blessing discard pile go into the blessing deck. The rules do say that recharged cards go into your character deck.I'm pretty sure that's not as intended, and so it needs to be remedied. If it's not remedied, then it means it's as intended, and we've all been playing wrong.
Skull and Shackle rulebook clearly pictures blessings discard pile on page 5 and clearly states there's a blessings discard pile on page 8 under Advance the Blessings Deck.
Thanks Mike and team for review.
...stuff...Skull and Shackle rulebook clearly pictures blessings discard pile on page 5 and clearly states there's a blessings discard pile on page 8 under Advance the Blessings Deck.
Thanks Mike and team for review.
The picture also shows the Character Deck and Discard Pile, as well as a multitude of other play areas and piles; what's your point?
I totally agree that the blessing discard pile is supposed to be used for blessing discards, but that's not in the rules anywhere. It's simply named "Blessings Discard Pile", and the only direct reference of it in the entirety of the rules doesn't even use the word 'discard' for placing cards into it.
The only reference of "Discard" in the entirety of the rules says that the card goes into the character's discard pile.
If there was a direct set of rules for these terms outside of playing cards, like recharge, etc, then the Sacred Spring question that started this thread would most likely have never come up, because the rules would have covered where said recharged cards go.
My interpretation of the rules, as read, word for word, IE: Rules as Written, that all discards, regardless of where they come from, go into the character discard pile wouldn't even be valid, lol.
However, right now, that's actually the only 'correct' interpretation, because all others are outside the word of the rules, which leads to some interesting situations.
All of this coming up really brought to light just how hard it is for someone to write rules. I can only imagine how many iterations of the rules there were before the game was even playtested, let alone between playtesting and going to print. It reminds me of the "Why do all the dice go 1-faces except the d10, which goes from 0-9 and why would we even roll it if we can get a 0!?!?" question. I'm amazed Mike and Vic and the rest of the team have hair left!
Assumptions go a long way towards making things intuitive, but not everyone has the same past experience to draw those assumptions on, so sometimes people end up playing differently because their experiences are different.
Oh, and the translations! The translations just wiggle things around even more, sometimes. There's plenty of forum threads over at BGG asking about rule clarifications because they didn't make sense, only to find out that the translation totally changed how it works. That's a whole different can of worms all on its own.
...stuff...Skull and Shackle rulebook clearly pictures blessings discard pile on page 5 and clearly states there's a blessings discard pile on page 8 under Advance the Blessings Deck.
Thanks Mike and team for review.
The picture also shows the Character Deck and Discard Pile, as well as a multitude of other play areas and piles; what's your point?
I totally agree that the blessing discard pile is supposed to be used for blessing discards, but that's not in the rules anywhere. It's simply named "Blessings Discard Pile", and the only direct reference of it in the entirety of the rules doesn't even use the word 'discard' for placing cards into it.
The only reference of "Discard" in the entirety of the rules says that the card goes into the character's discard pile.
If there was a direct set of rules for these terms outside of playing cards, like recharge, etc, then the Sacred Spring question that started this thread would most likely have never come up, because the rules would have covered where said recharged cards go.
My interpretation of the rules, as read, word for word, IE: Rules as Written, that all discards, regardless of where they come from, go into the character discard pile wouldn't even be valid, lol.
However, right now, that's actually the only 'correct' interpretation, because all others are outside the word of the rules, which leads to some interesting situations.
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That is an interesting point as, having gone back and reviewed the rules again, I agree with everything you say about "discard", they go out of their way to NOT use the word discard in relation to the "Advance the Blessings Deck" section on page 8.
"Advance the Blessings deck: Flip the top card from the blessings deck faceup onto the top of the blessings discard pile"
So by following the rules, most Blessing Deck cards end up in the Blessing Discard Pile during the course of the game, but are not technically discarded there.
There are a lot of ship powers where the card directs you to discard a card from the blessings deck to gain a temporary power, which would mean that, for the cost of a turn, you not only get a temporary power but also get a blessing in your discard, which might be an upgrade on the ones in your deck (especially in the earlier adventures, which is where I'm living right now).
Intuitively, this should just go to the Blessing Discard pile, but you can certainly make a case for playing that as written as well, which would make the game easier and make the ship powers for some ships more attractive.
So, when a ship, location (Pinnacle Atoll), or other card directs us to discard x number of cards from the blessing deck, we should we be advancing the blessings deck x number of times instead? Or should we play "as written" and discard to our discard pile, possibly picking up an improved blessing in the process?
Sorry for restating, I'm just trying to get my head around it all. I personally like the idea of playing both the Springs and the Blessing Discards as per the current official rules, as I don't think either breaks the game.
There are a lot of ship powers where the card directs you to discard a card from the blessings deck to gain a temporary power, which would mean that, for the cost of a turn, you not only get a temporary power but also get a blessing in your discard, which might be an upgrade on the ones in your deck (especially in the earlier adventures, which is where I'm living right now).
That's a great find. The ship powers are unambiguously covered in "playing a card", and I would agree that the rules as written instruct a players to discard blessings from the blessing deck into the character discard pile in that case.
I would disagree with your assessment that play this way "doesn't break the game." Allowing you use ship powers to grab any blessing you want from the top of the blessing deck and move it to your discard pile trivialize the acquisition of blessings. It makes acquiring blessings far easier than in RotR, and means that you can effectively pick and choose the exact type and number you want for each blessing.
As long as Mike and the design team is thinking about this issue, I would argue that the fixes proposed here are too narrow. We need global definitions for those powers. It would also be great to have a clarification that you never move cards between decks unless explicitly instructed to by a card.
Also, we who play divine casters love to get free blessings in our discard piles.
Dem cures...
Indeed. Healing would become even more powerful.
Most of the time you'd be drawing blind from the deck if you are discarding, and the Sacred Spring stipulates drawing the cards at random from the Blessing discard pile. Unless you've got the right character skills or boon in hand to look ahead in the blessings deck, you don't know what is coming in that discard.
Worst case, the team decide they're going on a "shopping run". Using the special ability of The Man's Promise, they explore two extra times each turn, over ten turns putting 20 cards in their discard pile(s). This is broken as a result as they would end up with 20 unearned blessing cards to rebuild their decks from, but they still need to survive the 30 explores, and they'd not be guaranteed the cards they're looking for.
Some of the new scenarios that mix in oddball cards with the blessings deck would also be broken by allowing discarding banes to the players discard pile.
Drawing blind is irrelevant if you are getting +20 blessings a scenario. Drawing the blessings you want over the course of several scenarios becomes a near-certainty.
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Well the Spring is a location, not a boon or a character power. So the issue of scenario compatibility seems irrelevant to me: as a designer, you just have to make sure you only include it in relevant scenarios. And if the scenario is well designed it limits any abuse you could have of the Spring. IMHO.
Chief Technical Officer
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Recharge is already defined in the book:
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.So the cards go under your character deck.
Pretty much, what the spring does is it takes away time (removes blessings from the blessing deck) but 'heals' the character using it (puts cards into the character deck). Think of it as the person spending a bit of time soaking in the springs to get rejuvenated.
^ That.
^ That.Recharge is already defined in the book:
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.So the cards go under your character deck.
Pretty much, what the spring does is it takes away time (removes blessings from the blessing deck) but 'heals' the character using it (puts cards into the character deck). Think of it as the person spending a bit of time soaking in the springs to get rejuvenated.
So, and this is extrapolation that may therefore be incorrect, if you wanted them to go to the bottom of the Blessings Discard Pile, you would specifically spell it out and avoid using the word "recharge?"
^ That.Recharge is already defined in the book:
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.So the cards go under your character deck.
Pretty much, what the spring does is it takes away time (removes blessings from the blessing deck) but 'heals' the character using it (puts cards into the character deck). Think of it as the person spending a bit of time soaking in the springs to get rejuvenated.
Vic, does discarding from the blessing deck work the same way?
Vic, does discarding from the blessing deck work the same way?
Is there a card right now that does not indicate that you discard the blessing from the blessing deck into the Blessings discard pile?
Advance the Blessings Deck: At the start of your turn, flip the top card from the blessings deck faceup onto the top of the blessings discard pile. You never acquire this blessing, though some cards may refer to it during your turn.
I'd have to point out that you never get them. So maybe we have to change that?
^ That.Recharge is already defined in the book:
Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.So the cards go under your character deck.
Pretty much, what the spring does is it takes away time (removes blessings from the blessing deck) but 'heals' the character using it (puts cards into the character deck). Think of it as the person spending a bit of time soaking in the springs to get rejuvenated.
Except, it doesn't take time away from the blessings deck. The cards come from the blessings discard pile. And, I am surprised to learn, go into the character's deck.