I was curious about this as it seems after Paladin-alignment questions, questions about how to play a magus is the second most frequent topic.
Are they really that difficult / finicky to play?
If you like Wizards, no.
Magus definitely needs a cheat sheet, sometimes even for players that people that've played them many times.
That said, the Magus two modes.
Easy mode: Shocking grasp scimitar wielding ultra-buffed hyper nova strike that can one shot the terrasque.
Hard mode: Anything else.
Or at least that seems to be the general consensus. I've not played the shocking scimitar build, so, I'm not familiar with how 'easy' it is. I HAVE done a Ganondorf (ssbb) inspired Magus centered around the longsword and Pool Strike. Hard mode is fun.
I think eidolon confusion/consternation is still more prevalent, as is gun dispute.
The issue that comes up with the Magus is the way that Spell Combat and Spell Strike change the flow of action. They're very unique ideas that don't build on precedent, but create new ones. Because of this they can take people by surprise, and have caused some confusion.
Personally, I didn't find the class or it's abilities difficult, so I wouldn't say that it's a difficult class. I came to Pathfinder specifically for new ideas. I can understand though why others might think that it is.
The thing to keep in mind is which type of action each ability uses, and what they can be combiened with.
Its a tricky class to play for several reasons.
A) You have a lot of spendable resources and a lot of actions other classes dont have access to. Pool and Arcana swift action economy alone has enough fiddly bits to confuse some players.
B) As a magic user with a severely limited spell pool per day, along with access to a pool of extra abilities it can be difficult to decide when, where and how to spend your abilities and which one to use each time. "Do I enhance my weapon and attack or do I cast Magic missile?" for example is a conundrum with no obvious answer.
C) As a magic user that wants to go into melee it is easy to wind up with a character build that just falls over itself and dies, often because offence is over-emphazised.
D) The magus also is not particularly good out of combat. With such limited spells per day they dont have much room to spare for utility. They do get a moderate amount of skillpoints thanks to having at least 16 intelligence in most builds.
To sum it up, Magi are intense because their round generally has more actions and decisions then most other classes. In a combat round a fighter has to decide "Do I attack him with my Sword or my, oh right theres just the one sword" while a Wizard has to decide "Hmmmm, this spell... or that spell...... hmmmm...". The Magus has both of those and then some more options unique only to him.
No.
Strat: Get strength to 18, pump int.
I like dual talented humans for this.
Here I wrote this magus for a 26 point buy campaign for lower point buys just lower con or/and cha.
Polymorph effects increase strength enough to keep the damage up and Arcane accuracy makes my to-hit very high. Spell blending can grab critical spells that address weaknesses (lowish HP).
I actually do not use spell combat or spell strike all that much. Spont casting and pre-buffing work wonders. Being strength based also means that two-handed attacks do a lot more damage than one-handed.
Magus is a complicated class, but I think it is easier to play successfully than fighter. If you go the dex-magus route, you will be doing more finicky things.
NOTE: The way I built Magi, they are drowning in pool points, which is the best resource to be drowning in.
Absolutely not, it's a class where you can remember all of your stats in your head.
You may or may not find them difficult. I definitely wouldn't recommend a magus for first-time players though, for what it's worth.
edit- Magi do have numbers that change often, though I've found my inquisitor and ranger to be a little easier to lose track of. I haven't played a higher-level magus yet though.
I would also add that the power of a magus seems to wane as levels increase (in comparison to others). At low levels the scaling damage of shocking grasp can really put out a lot of damage. With a few tricks you can keep things going through mid levels by using intensified empowered shocking grasp as a 2nd level spell by combining wayang spell hunter and magical lineage (which I personally find cheesy but is legal). However, somewhere around levels 12-14 you just can't add that much more damage to your routine and you don't put up the same kind of damage numbers as a two-handed weapon power attacking fighter/barbarian but you'll still be doing enough to remain relevant.
The staying power will also depend on number of fights and combatant in those fights. Magi are incredibly resource dependent, and if mismanaged can become abysmal combatants.
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The Magus spellstrike mechanic can be a bit tricky for a new player.
I have seen it trip up more experienced players as well, from time to time.
That said, just like most other things in this game, if you read up on it and give it a play-through or two you'll be just fine in most cases.
My lvl 13 strength magus keeps up in damage just fine as a non-mythic char next to a tier 2 mythic synthesist summoner.
Polymorph spells are still strong. Being able to haste yourself is really strong. Two-handing your longsword is also a big damage boost.
Spell combat boost action economy not damage. This is more true once SR starts becoming an issue.
So how does the power level of the Magus arc out?
People seem to be saying they start out strong, but then fall off the power curve somewhere- at least that's what I've seen posted on these boards.
Sorry if this is off topic, but to me seeing their relative power has something to do with if they're tough to play or not.
So how does the power level of the Magus arc out?
People seem to be saying they start out strong, but then fall off the power curve somewhere- at least that's what I've seen posted on these boards.
Sorry if this is off topic, but to me seeing their relative power has something to do with if they're tough to play or not.
They peak in relative damage at mid. That is when the their ability to enhance weapons combos best with things like arcane accuracy.
At higher levels they are not fullcasters, but their utility makes them a martial that work. Imagine taking a fighter, cranking their DPR from 11 to 10, then dumping on endless piles of utility. Sure at the highest level your DPR falls behind, but chances are you will full attack far more things or do things far more useful than full attacking.
NOTE: Talking about strength magi. Dex magi just scale poorly. SR starts to negate their main source of damage.
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Dex Kensai Magi can get some insane defenses, making them viable front-liners. My group has two front-liners, with the other being a full plate fighter wielding a two-handed dorn derger. Makes for a good balance, with one having a great touch AC, and the other having a solid flat-footed AC.
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NOTE: Talking about strength magi. Dex magi just scale poorly. SR starts to negate their main source of damage.
Dex magi scale pretty well either with Dervish Dance, or now with Fencing Grace. Their damage is a bit lower - but they get all of the secondary benefits of dex (AC/reflex/initiative etc) - in a round where you use combat casting and can't two-hand your sword, strength isn't even higher damage.
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The Magi flurry of blows thing can be confusing as hell, you REAALLY need to make a flow chart between spell combat and spell strike to figure it out, and then it sounds like you're doing some wookie defense level rules lawyering.
touch Spell zap zap
Dervish Dance + Black Blade + Kensai = lololololol Win
C) As a magic user that wants to go into melee it is easy to wind up with a character build that just falls over itself and dies, often because offence is over-emphazised.
I don't claim to be an expert, I have never played one.
But in my current campaign, where I am playing a cleric, I have had to go to the rescue of a PC twice. And both times it was the Magus. Once he wisely retreated as he quickly lost most of his HPs and I went to his aid, and the other he lost all his HPs and was bleeding out till I fixed him up.
And I think this is to some extent innate in the class. Fighters, Paladins et al just innately have a better AC and more HPs than a Magus. A Magus might get an opportunity to change that, and might elect to up his/her defence rather than concentrate on doing damage.
And the Magus is more capable of doing damage, more immediately dangerous. If I was up against a group with a Magus in it, I would hit the Magus very hard to get him out of combat asap. It just makes sense. Then you tackle the longer term project of taking down the fighter types later.
In my experience, the Magus is a glass cannon. Great dishing out the damage, but not very good at taking the hits. Have only seen one in play up to level 9 though...
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Like a lot of 3/4 BAB classes, the magus has a lot of different buffs that can be floating around which alter various aspects like saves, AC, to-hit and static damage modifiers, as well as having various swift actions and switching between casting and melee distances to avoid attacks of opportunity and maximizing their action economy.
From the looks of it I'd dare say they're on par with some druid builds as far as complexity goes.
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One of the players in our group found and recommended this guide:
Grick's guide to touch spells, spellstrike, and spell combat
I played a dwarf barbarian 1/magus X for a while. Got him up to 8th level, I believe, but I think I only played him up to 7th level.
Anyways, I wielded a dwarven waraxe and had rage and Power Attack, so I had A LOT of combat options. One-handed or two-handed, raging or not raging, buffed or not buffed, shocking grasp or just Arcane Strike? Or Enlarged, Arcane Striking, Raging, Two-handed Power Attack with Shocking Grasp? (obviously, I had to cast before raging, hold the charge, and then rage, and then possibly do a different kind of charge....)
He also discovered how to get Aggro: 6 Charisma and really bad Diplomacy rolls. ;-)
I never thought so. I ran a Dwarf Magus named Dolgar through Rise of the Runelords as a front liner and party crafter. No Magical Lineage or Wayang Spellhunter, not even an Archetype; just a mix of spells and a stout weapon to slice or smash things with. It worked well as far as I could tell. There is resource management involved as you have a pool of points and spell memorization, but you can do fine just using pool points for weapon buffs and Spell Recall and still do whatever mix of spells you want. (Dolgar normally had an even mix of touch attack, ranged attack/control, and utility spells.)
I guess I'd say that if you're newer to D20 D&D/Pathfinder and you haven't played a primarily melee character and/or a primarily magic character, you might want to try both individually first just to get used to the systems involved. I don't think you have to, but it's easier to learn with less moving parts.
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I have played over 7 different magus's since they were introduced. All of them have been fun and effective in their own right. I have been through the typical dervish dance/magical lineage (Intensified Shocking Grasp) and frostbite rime spell variant builds. The bladebound is pretty nice imo and is the only archetype of the magus that I absolutely love besides the Eldritch Scion (which i'm not sure is PFS legal or not). The Hexcrafter can be fun and flavorful for sure.
Though some archetypes are really nice I try to avoid all that give up Spell Recall (though not always successful in my avoidance).
Like everyone else has mentioned there is quite a bit of book keeping and tracking required in the magus and it's definately not a beginners class for sure. But if you are familiar with playing a caster and anywhere near familiar with the basics of combat it is relatively easy to learn.
My two favorite magus builds I have played so far (out of the seven) has been:
-Tengu (Bladebound) Scimitar/Dervish Dance w/ Magical Lineage and Intensified Shocking Grasp---Tengu is by far a non optimal choice but fun for the flavor and probably because I just really like the tengu for some strange reason ;)
-Kitsune (Eldritch Scion)/Swashbuck dip Rapier w/ Magical Lineage and Rime Spell + Frostbite---Kitsune is AWESOME for the Eldritch Scion imo but probably not an optimal choice (I try to always go for the fun side of things not optimal-min/max-powergamer material)
I played a Blade Bound Magus in a friend's campaign for awhile, and thoroughly loved it. As long as you've read up on the rules for the class and are prepped with your spells and abilities it's a fun class to play.
Interesting I had simply assumed you could spell strike with it. However the wording is odd.
It is not odd. You can spellstrike with every charge.
Don't let other people confuse your initially correct interpretation.
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There is definitely a ruling on Frostbite (specifically spells with multiple touches) with Spellstrike:
Also if you go to the PFSRD page on the Magus, multiple FAQ's and Errata's are posted on it's page which link you to the original source.
Is a Magus Difficult? Somewhat. It's not a class you can just pick up and play. But a little bit of reading and playtime will get you fairly comfortable with it.
Playing a martial melee character means you need to have a decent handle on how melee combat works - keeping tracks of buffs and debuffs, flanking, five-foot steps, Attacks of Opportunity, CMB/CMD and so on.
Playing a spellcaster means you need to have a decent handle on how magic works - range, components, duration, concentration checks, line of sight/line of effect, spell resistance, and how the spells you have access to work and interact with one another.
Playing a magus means you need to have a decent handle on both. Then you have a fair amount of resources to keep track of (arcane pool, spells prepared, spell recall) as well as a few unique shifting modifiers (spell combat). It's not exactly difficult, but it is a bit more involved than playing a Power Attack fighter or Heavens Oracle.
Mechanically, I think the magus starts off as one of the more complicated classes to play, but is fairly intuitive once you've played it for a few levels and get the hang of it.
And if someone tried to have frostbite up and spellstrike by casting the brand cantrip, the frostbite would go away right?