Ichthyodactyl's page

Scar Hex unfortunately doesn't alleviate the need for line of sight, it just extends the range to a mile. I'm guessing this wasn't intentional, but it is what it is.

Generally, applying the same effect to the same creature causes no additional effect other than to extend the duration. As there is a visual effect associated with Scar, I'd personally rule that the newest Scar replaces the previous one. (however, in keeping with how other hexes work, I would also rule this is a per-witch limit, and you could have multiple Scars from multiple witches)

The relevant rules are in the combat section:

Quote:

Total Cover: If you don't have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target's square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can't make an attack against a target that has total cover.

Quote:

Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight, he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can't attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).

and the magic section:

Quote:

Stacking Effects: Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don't stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).

Different Bonus Types: The bonuses or penalties from two different spells stack if the modifiers are of different types. A bonus that doesn't have a type stacks with any bonus.

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same

...

The rules about stacking effects aren't relevant here I don't think unless it actually prevents using the hex on the same target twice because we're not really concerned about whether or not they 'stack' just whether or not it can trigger Split Hex when it happens (whether it replaces the old or otherwise). Useful info though.

I would presume that those combat rules affect attacks only, which hexes definitely are not, is there some ruling or explicit rule somewhere that says SU abilities or (abilities in general) still fall under this? Attack is so specific as a defined term in pathfinder that I'm hesitant to accept that as covering Hexes as well.

Unless otherwise stated, abilities require line of sight to be activated on a chosen target. This means you cannot split hex based on the scarred individual unless you could also see the second target. They are, in effect, an invisible creature to you. If it required an attack roll then you'd have a chance, but would still have to blindly guess the correct square and roll a 50% miss chance on top of that. Scar hex bypasses this issue for the scarred individual, but not for anyone else.

That said, yes, you could use Scar on someone who's already scarred, but all this does is make it slightly more difficult to become completely scar-free. Well, that and it adds a new scar with an appearance of your choosing.

I'd like to get a source to that rule, if you don't mind. Also if that's just generally true for abilities that don't call out exceptions, Scar itself doesn't call out an exception, does that mean that in order to affect a scarred creature with another hex, you still need line of sight? Scar Hex doesn't specifically make an exception to this, it just extends the range which would seem to make the mile limiter moot.

As for splitting a hex, if that general rule about abilities holds true, would I not just need line of sight from the animal I am using to carry hexes and an awareness of where a secondary target is? If not, would a spell or effect such as Share Senses not fill that requirement?

As for the double scarring, would that count as having two separate scars (that would presumably have to be removed individually either by the target or the witch) and therefore count as having two creatures scarred (with regards to the witch's maximum capacity of creatures scarred based on Int Mod)?

I have searched around and failed to find an answer for this specific question;

Can you use Scar Hex on a creature that is already currently under the effects of Scar Hex, assuming that you have a high enough Int to do so (however that need is interpreted for this instance). If so, would that mean that the creature has two separate 'scars' on it and uses two 'slots' of scarring (as two separate creatures would)?

In extrapolation, if you can Scar Hex a creature already under the effects of a Scar Hex then, presumably, you can use Scar Hex on the creature in question anywhere within the mile distance of the already present Scar Hex, yes?

Further extrapolation, based on the apparent RAW interaction between Scar Hex and Split Hex, you could re-scar a creature within the mile limit to also scar a secondary creature within 30ft. of the original creature. In effect, long-distance scarring?

I realize that RAI, this seems utterly ridiculous but I can't find any reason RAW why it wouldn't be true, looking for some insight if there is any to be had here.

*Tangentially related non-rules question for Hex-users who use the Split Hex/Scar RAW interaction; How do you find it best to accumulate and maintain a standing collection of animals to use for this interaction? What sorts of Hexes do you find useful for this, as it would seem that the really good negative ones would be counterproductive unless you have a constant influx of new animals to use?

Any response is welcome

No idea how Pummeling Style would interacty with Stunning Fist, but since Stunning Fist can only be used once per round, I'd say one still has to declare which attack roll is the Stunning Fist applied to; so if some attacks hit and the Stunning Fist attempt doesn't, the Pummeling Style goes off as normal...

Medusa's Wrath won't work with Pummeling as Medusa's Wrath requires a full-attack action which isn't the same as Pummeling's full-round action.

I would agree with that interpretation of how Stunning Fist works with Pummeling Style, given that Stunning Fist doesn't designate any kind of action required in it's use, merely that you must declare you are using it before the resolution of your attack roll (which Pummeling Style does still make).

I think people are reading the interaction between Medusa's Wrath and Pummeling Style wrong though; I've seen that same interpretation quoted a few times and here's the issue I have with it; Medusa's Wrath doesn't require activation to take place, it merely requires that the conditions are met and if they are, you get 2 more attacks when you use the full-attack action whether you use them or not. That is to say that if the conditions are met, your full-attack action will have those two extra attacks available. In addition to this; Pummeling Style says that you get a number of attacks equal to your full-attack action or flurry of blows which, if the conditions of Medusa's Wrath are met, would be 2 more than otherwise would be. Rather than determining whether or not Medusa's Wrath can modify a Pummeling Strike (due to the designation of specific actions, it can't), I think Medusa's Wrath modifies what a full-attack action would look like if you took one and that is what Pummeling Strike is basing its number of attacks on. This is pretty much the way that I assume Haste is intended to work with Pummeling Strike because Haste modifies what a full-attack would look like albeit in a much less conditional way than Medusa's Wrath does.

I don't think that Pummeling Strike could be used with both at the same time, however, given that the conditions which allow Medusa's Wrath to proc would technically have to be applied on the same attack that Medusa's Wrath would proc, I'm guessing there's precedent somewhere about an ability not being able to happen on the same attack as the conditions that would then allow said ability. If so, it begs the question, how would you reliably get Medusa's Wrath to proc while using it with Pummeling Strike anyway?

That Time Bandit talent is only available from class level 10 and up. What character level are you starting at? If it's 5th or less you need a plan which works without it. Note that elves get an alt FCB of +1/2 mote per day for time thief.

I'd be starting at at least 8th, probably 9th, possibly even 10th level. I did notice the Elf FCB, one of the better ones actually. And a Dex/Int build could be interesting, I'm just not sure how best to optimize that. The Monk dip is an interesting idea, I'm curious if the potential ability to deliver 2xint as damage three times a round would be worth it. I definitely wouldn't be making much use of Flurry or Stunning Fist, or MoM's Fuse Style either, unless I spent a normal feat slot to pick up a second style (wouldn't know what to choose even, mantis maybe?).

It looks like the best use of motes is to gain extra swift actions; you don't have quite enough motes to rely on them for roll bonuses. The aevum effects are better but if I'm reading it correctly you only get one aevum point at 5th +1 per 4 levels after. Which is embarrassingly few.

So IMO the best use of the class would be a one-level dip before going into inquisitor, which has a real problem getting all its swift actions done. You could then go with whichever race you prefer for inquisitors; I like half-orcs.

Failing that, forget charisma - the time thief class doesn't need it much - and go with a dex/int elf. Take a 2 level dip in Master of Many Styles monk, get Kirin Style and Kirin Strike and amaze people with your ability to add 2*Int mod to damage.

If you really want a pure time thief, I have no idea how you could build one effectively.

The Time Bandit talent grants extra motes/day equal to Cha mod and can be taken multiple times, effects stacking. The capstone also grants extra Aevum/day equal to Cha mod (admittedly a long time to wait for more uses of Aevum) as well. I guess that's why it seemed like Cha would be pretty important. A good Cha score and a couple Time Bandit talents would do wonders to the daily mote pool. Seems unclear to me if the extra motes should be granted retroactively or not though.

I'd really like to keep it at least half Time Thief, I really like the flavor of the class, a monk dip is an interesting idea though, Could be interesting.

Toying around with the Time Thief class from SGG. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/time-t hief

Curious if anyone has any opinions about about how to build this class and, more specifically, what good race options would be. It would seem, to me, to heavily support a Cha/Dex build and most of the good Cha/Dex races don't seem to have great Alternative Favored Class Bonuses. I also know that not all of the Alternate Favored Class Bonuses are listed on that class page though. Assume that all 3pp content is fair game for this purpose.

Any thoughts about how to build them effectively and especially for good race suggestions would be appreciated.

Actually the reason I was asking was because I was looking at Urban Barbarian, which gets Uncanny Dodge and it occured to me that I was only aware of a couple of reasons someone would be flat-footed and only a couple more that they would be denied Dex to AC.

I will check out these options though, they do sound interesting.

Anyway, thanks for the heads-up there.

@Kazaan - the Scarred Witch Doctor idea is pretty cool, definitely not for this character though. The second suggestion is very similar to how I plan on already roleplaying Quincy. He may not be the classiest person ever, but he thinks he is. However when he finds himself in a rough spot, he is more likely to revert to his baser instincts as long as he wins, because then he gets to gloat afterwards and extol is honor, even if the way he won was less than honorable.

I have a follow-up question here and I didn't feel like making a second thread;

What are the ways that someone can be caught flat-footed and/or lose their Dex to AC?

Being unable to act in a surprise round
Being attacked from invisibility
Being the subject of a successful feint
Being immobilized...

What else?

I don't know a lot about grapple builds but Ive seen tetori at work and they have done well enough. I agree that a monk fits what you seek very well but I would suggest a single level dip into urban barbarian for two reasons... 1) +10 speed and 2) the controlled rage of +4 to a physical attribute can be a huge asset on a limited basis. Finally, being an elf or getting travel domain would also speed you up if you desire to do so and travel domains 1st levelpower does help with your difficult terrain issue you mentioned.

Also, unless I'm missing something, Urban Barbarian gives up fast movement to get crowd control.

These kinds of games can be fun. I recall one game I played a long time ago where my DM let me start the game as a Duergar Werebear Summoner (which was a custom class in this particular game not unlike the Synthesist, except that I adopted the aspect of various deities). It was ruled, at some point, that I could give my aspect forms lycanthropy. I would have single-handedly made all of the encounters we faced negligible. That said, the Solar (yes, my DM allowed one of the characters to be a Solar) outstripped even me in sheer kill power.

The problem when you start allowing powerful monsters and templates is that it is very difficult to gauge a balance between them, it's hard to tell out of the box if one of them is going to end up stealing the limelight constantly. This goes doubly for pumping the Humans to comparable power, it will be difficult to tell where the sweet spot is, balance-wise.

A rules quotes to answer your questions!

ACG wrote:

Grit, luck, and panache represent three different means by which heroes can gain access to the same heroic pool, using it to accomplish fantastic feats. For characters with a mix of grit, luck, and panache, they pool the resources together into a combined pool. (Those who use panache and luck gain twice their Charisma bonus in their pool.) For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain luck points in place of grit or panache points, and vice versa.

A luck user does not count as a grit or panache user to satisfy feat prerequisites.

Seems straightforward enough. You have a combined pool for these things then.

And yes, you'd regain one panache for a crit with a one-handed piercing weapon and one panache for a kill with the same. You would not get two back if it's a rapier though.

I assumed this applied only to a mixture of the three rather than multiple sources of the same thing, hence the question. I was also directed to this when I was trying to find an answer to the question, would you say it's irrelevant then?

RumpinRufus wrote:

Ichthyodactyl wrote:

I actually did consider a Sword Cane for quite awhile but, mechanically, it would probably require a STR build (which I am fine with, just prefer a full DEX one if I can).

Why would a Sword Cane require a Str build? It's a finessable one-handed slashing weapon, so it's a perfect candidate for Slashing Grace.

The Sword Cane is actually a piercing weapon. Feel free to scratch your head as much as you wish.

I was unaware that it was actually finesseable (I thought it was and I did look,guess I must have just missed that it was and assumed it wasn't), but yeah it is a piercing weapon. I kind of expect to be MAD already, so if I can't get Dex to dmg, I would probably favor a STR build.

So, first of all I know this was a hot topic for a few months awhile ago so I want to make it clear now that I am really not trying to stir the Sh@# pot here. I am not trying to start any fights, I really am unsure how this specific instance is supposed to be handled. I have read the FAQ about these kinds of instances and as many of the clarification posts in the old thread as I could find. If there was one that covered this example or ones similar, I couldn't find it.

Daring Champion/Inspired Blade

Daring champion gains Panache as a normal Swashbuckler would (just Cha mod) while Inspired Blade gets Cha mod +Int mod.

The way I see it, it's one of two possibilities;

1. That They stack because Inspired Panache is derived from 'multiple sources' while Panache and Deeds is not. or..

2. Taking a level of Inspired Blade simply adds the value of Int mod to the Daring Champions current pool of Panache.

Ultimately I think it comes down to an issue of parsing, is it:

'a bonus equal to (Cha mod+Int mod)' or..
'(a bonus equal to Cha mod) + (a bonus equal to Int mod)'

Again, sorry if this specific problem was addressed somewhere or if I simply didn't understand an implication in the FAQ and posts, but I am not sure on the wording here.

As a bonus inquiry under the same circumstances;

Am I correct in asssuming that a character with Daring Champ 1 and Inspired Blade 1 could still regain panache with killing blows? Also while using weapons other than a rapier?

Ichthyodactyl wrote:

Geisha are possibly a little out of theme for my character, but the idea of periodically sipping tea in the middle of a dungeon to buff up is amazing. This makes me really want to work leadership in here. As a side note, I suppose that I could approximate this build with a more Samurai-based flavor and it still mostly make sense.

If you're in a game where you can take the pure mechanics of the geisha class and ignore the traditional concept of what a geisha is, it could work quite well. The weapon proficiencies might be a problem though - no rapiers, just simple weapons plus the monk weapon of your choice.

Do you mean for the Geisha? If I had a Geisha cohort, I'd probably make her stay out of combat entirely if I can help it, Just follow me around with her tea set and play music occasionally maybe. :P

More good suggestions from people. :)

@BretI - This will most likely be a roll20 game, but those are some awesome minis, the noble half-orc in particular. thanks. :)

@boring7 - Top Hat and a Cane are likely. I actually did consider a Sword Cane for quite awhile but, mechanically, it would probably require a STR build (which I am fine with, just prefer a full DEX one if I can). A pocketwatch is also quite likely, as for a second function, idk. The Magic Talent trait could be pretty fun, there are LOTS of really good traits to choose from though, I'd have to really think about that.

@Matthew Downie - Excellent idea, that! Geisha are possibly a little out of theme for my character, but the idea of periodically sipping tea in the middle of a dungeon to buff up is amazing. This makes me really want to work leadership in here. As a side note, I suppose that I could approximate this build with a more Samurai-based flavor and it still mostly make sense.

@Devilkiller - Thing with the Dueling Swords is that I feel like I'd be wastng part of their appeal if I took them as a Daring Champion (Double finesse). If I end up outside of Daring Champion or Swashbuckler, that might be something to consider but two feats, idk. One of the other things I was considering was just finessing a Falcata though (They qualify for Slashing Grace and thus Champion's Finesse). They aren't exactly 'dueling weapons', but probably good options mechanically, especially if I don't get to use Fencing Grace.
Dual wielding rapiers will be tough, especially at first. I was considering going off-hand dagger or something for awhile, but eventually I would like to be able to pick up the Effortless Lace mentioned earlier for 2500gp for my off-hand rapier (if I am allowed to do so). If Effortless Lace is out of the question, 11 levels of Two-Weapon Warrior will let me treat one-handed weapons as light for TWF penalty purposes, it will also give me some bonus feats which I think I'll need and TWF penalty reductions. 11 is a lot of levels out of Daring Champion though and level order might be tricky.
I'm wary about TWF with more than one weapon type and I definitely don't want to cheese two kukris (not to mention there's no way to get DEX to dmg with light weapons without Agile enchantment, that I know of anyway).
The MoMS dip idea is pretty interesting, might be worth looking into if my original idea is too feat hungry, sounds pretty fun to me.

Ichthyodactyl wrote:

A bit of a tangent, admittedly, but how viable is a mounted slinger?

Well, assuming a halfing (since they are the only ones with an option I know of that lets them reduce the reload time to free, which is needed for iteratives), you might do well enough. Particularly since halflings can have medium mounts, which means they never really have to get off of them.

That's actually what I had in mind. Probably as a Luring Cav.

A bit of a tangent, admittedly, but how viable is a mounted slinger?

Don't forget to add Magus for an Arcane Pool.

Dotting because awesome.

I love outside-the-box half-orcs! I once played a half-orc Cleric of Abadar named Porq Tendercoin (yes, everyone groaned.) Great fun. I wish you the best of luck, and let me know how this actually plays out!

Lol

This character will be used in a campaign that isn't going to start for awhile, but I may update this thread with a basic build when I figure it out a little more. I suppose I could make another thread of his exploits once I've played him a bit, if that would be sufficient.

One of my PCs is an Orc who carries a book about how to be a “perfect orc”. Unfortunately that book was written by a Diabolist who had the idea of making orcs into unquestioning soldiers for Hell. Maybe Quincy could have a book of etiquette which he frequently consults but almost as frequently misunderstands. Accidentally turning formal greetings and address into insults might be fun.

Order of the Cockatrice would give you a pretty good way to intimidate foes along with a bonus to hit them once they're intimidated. If the duration of that demoralize is a problem you could consider the Enforcer feat. While it would be strictly suboptimal I think you could make a nonlethal rapier attack at -4 to trigger Enforcer. This could represent slashing the opponent's cheek as folks would sometimes do in sword duels. The Marquis of Queensberry stuff Cuuniyevo was suggesting could work there too. Like if a gentleman of the leisure class should be skilled at boxing and fencing why not practice both at the same time? I'd think that hauling off and punching (or even headbutting) somebody in the nose while your swords were locked up also might be an amusing fencing faux pas for a genteel orc to commit.

If you wanted to look at Slashing Grace I'd say that Aldori Dueling Swords are pretty fancy too (think fencing sabers)

I actually really like the idea of him carrying around a series of small books in the vein of 'High Society for Dummies'. He would spend his free time 'studying' these books only to shortly realize how boring it is to interpret the stupid little squiggles on the paper and only take away small bits and pieces. His 'studies' could be the primary factor in his decision to wear dual monocles or carry around a single gauntlet to throw at his opponents' feet (because he once read that knights did that, but he doesn't wear gauntlets so he just carries one around on his belt) or wear a very nice vest but not be able to button it properly.

Getting carried away and punching his opponent with swords locked is exactly the kind of thing Quincy would do and Enforcer could be pretty useful as well. How/When would that take place mechanically-speaking?

Also, are the Aldori Dueling Swords the same as the Dueling Swords from the Inner Sea World Guide? (PFSRD has them listed as such)
If so, then I likely wouldn't be able to use it and if I could, I would just as easily be able to take Fencing Grace and keep the rapiers. (I really would prefer to keep the rapiers if I can, especially if I can find a way to dual-wield them effectively).

What's the question with Frostbite? O.o

Because of the wording of Frostbite, there are a variety of different interpretations of how the spell alone works and especially how it interacts with Spellstrike specifically. Interpetations seem to range from "The spell adds an additional affect to your 'melee touch attacks' rather than lets you deliver the touch spell with a free touch attack and so doesn't let you use spellstrike with it, despite it being a 'touch' spell" to "you get one free touch attack as per any other touch spell, which can be used with spellstrike and the rest of the charges must be used with later actions" to "you can use spellstrike to immediately deliver all charges because it states you can use 'this melee touch attack up to blah blah times' rather than what is typical for touch spells". Then there's whether or not it counts as holding a charge if it has remaining touch attacks left after you've already "delivered" the spell once (which matters if you decide to cast another spell before you've used them all).

Again, some or all of this may have been FAQ'd or Errata'd, I don't know. I generally play in games where I'm only allowed to reference what's on the PRD.

Ichthyodactyl wrote:

I've only GMd homebrew campaigns, so as this pertains to prebuilts, I have nothing to say.

However, GMPCs can be VERY useful story-telling tools. The importance in their use is that you can control them to create interesting hooks or plot twists. Some may argue that they would just be an NPC not a GMPC but, if you're telling the story well, the players shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

There's always going to be a major difference between the guy who stops by for lunch occasionally and the neighbor who moves in permanently.

If the party needs a story hook, I thrown in an NPC encounter who provides the hook and is gone afterwards. That's a major difference between shoehorning that NPC as a recurring party member.

If you're doing it right, it's not shoehorning. If you're forcing a character to recurr where their role could just as easily be served by 'the guy who stops by for lunch', then yes it's a bad idea. If you're doing that, you should reconsider it. That's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about characters that are a consistent integral part of the story. A good writer doesn't need to rely on predictable tropes to advance a story. Diversity of storytelling devices is always a good thing.

My experience playing Magus is limited, but I did do a lot of reading before I settled on my current character who is a Hexcrafter whip-tripper.

My experience thus far has been that;

A) a lot of people really misunderstand how spellcombat and spellstrike function, especially when used together. so, as other people have said, make sure you and your GM are on the same page there.

B) due to some potentially confusing wording both in the descriptions of the abilities above and some of the spells that a Magus can cast, It is very unclear how some spells interact with those abilities; Frostbite is the perfect example of a spell that could potentially be very underwhelming to a Magus or really overpowered due to how it is worded. I don't know if there has been errata for that specific interaction or not, so it may have been cleared up by now.

C) There are lots of things to keep track of; Up-time of your arcane pool expenditures, your arcane pool itself, up-time of your various buffs, duration of your touch spell charges should you fail to expend them immediately. This is compounded if you take an archetype like Hexcrafter where you will end up with probably a couple hexes that have a limited number of minutes of use per day to track as well.

D) There are lots of ways to build a Magus, there's a lot of innate versatility to the class. This is good but it also means you're going to have to make several decisions between multiple good options.

Playing as my hexcrafter whiptripper, I can say that they can be very fun though. Delivering touch spells at 15ft reach and 30ft reach when I am enlarged is quite fun, being able to throw people on the ground when they get closer or being able to put mooks to sleep for coup de graces later on is also quite fun.

I've only GMd homebrew campaigns, so as this pertains to prebuilts, I have nothing to say.

However, GMPCs can be VERY useful story-telling tools. The importance in their use is that you can control them to create interesting hooks or plot twists. Some may argue that they would just be an NPC not a GMPC but, if you're telling the story well, the players shouldn't be able to tell the difference.

I think that creating a GMPC for the explicit purpose of being able to "play" yourself is a very dangerous thing to do, it's going to be very difficult to compartmentalize your character and your GM knowledge and that's kind of what you would have to do.

Making a PC for the explicit purpose of filling out a party, however, can be acceptable. The character should fill more of a support or background role though, as others have suggested.

Most likely.

I'm not much of a melee-munchkin, the characters never really interest me so I never built enough to get good at building 'em. I know that as a general rule multiclassing is problematic since Paizo does its best to make sure classes aren't very front-loaded. I know that on the list, Swashbuckler is the only class that gets real use out of charisma. Finally, I know that a lot of your character type screams "rogue" but Slayer is a rogue that just took all the "suck" away.

Honestly, the most important parts of your character (being goofy, having a manservant who seems to be smarter or more sane than him, being a martial badass) don't require a specific class. Charisma is useful to leadership, but you don't need *that* much. Everything else is simply a matter of acting that way out of combat.

I haven't actually looked at Slayer yet, I think I'll do that.

The most important part of my character, hands down, is all of the stuff I can roleplay. The particular style of combat is somewhat important to me though; the reason I like Daring Champion in particular is because of the flavor of the combat style, challenging one particularly strong foe and focusing him down with superior swordsmanship, topped with lots of bragging and gloating. The fight itself is honorable and prestigious, both parties put their honor on the line for this one fight and whomever emerges depletes the other of their honor.

That is not to say that I couldn't roleplay a lot of that with a different class, it's just nice that, for that particular class/archetype, it's built into the mechanics.

You are right about Charisma though, I don't really need it to be too high. I'd say a 14 or so would probably be as high as I'd really care for it to be and I could settle for less. Problem is I don't yet know whether or not we will be rolling for stats or doing a point buy, so it's hard to plan around that quite yet.

Effortless Lace and Fencing Grace are both exactly the kinds of things I was hoping I would discover here, I don't know if they are going to be viable options though. My DM tends to be pretty strict on the core books thing.

I guess if I took Daring Champion or Swashbuckler of some variety, I could pick up Slashing Grace and use longswords instead? I'd rather not though.

The Low Templar is interesting, some useful stuff in there but there also seems to be quite a few things that would either be useless or anti-thematic for my character. He doesn't really concern himself with morality, all he really cares about is his reputation (or what he thinks it is). Dirty Fighting is pretty cool, Flag of Convenience would be useful if I can fit Leadership in here somewhere. The three alignment abilities don't fit my theme very well though and the prerequisites are ones that I'm not sure I can reasonably afford (either because I expect to be feat-hungry already and am not sold on mounted combat or because my skill points are going to be tight as-is and I don't know if I will be able to spare 12 points to qualify). This is also out of a splash book, so it may not really be a viability anyway.

As a last note, does anyone have any experience or opinions on Two-Weapon Warrior? It looks pretty good to me; leveling untyped bonuses to attack, two-weapon fighting penalty reductions and doublestrike.

Would some hybrid of Two-Weapon Warrior and either Daring Champion or some kind of Swashbuckler be viable?

Wow, lots to respond to.

I haven't looked much at Swashbuckler archetypes, so I may have to do that. I HAVE however looked pretty closely at Daring Champion ( of the Cockatrice, even) before, it was actually one of the options I was pretty happy with but I remember finding myself at an impasse trying to build him that way although looking through my notes, I can't remember what that was now.

The Idea about the fisticuffs brawler is actually pretty awesome, I may explore that option also as I think it would suit him fairly well.

As for a mounted cav, it would be representative of high-society (I especially like the suggestion about the young dragonling mount that is really just a cave lizard, very funny), but I'm not sure I like that flavor as much as a duelist sort of character. I could roll a Daring Champion and still take a 'dragon' mount, I just wouldn't be very good at fighting on it.

I really don't want him to be a Paladin, I don't know that I can elaborate on that much, I just don't think a Paladin would suit his character the way I envision it.

As for Wisdom vs. Int; you make a valid point, but I'm not sure that I really expect him to be able to do much reasoning either. Neither wisdom or intelligence are going to be strong stats for him (if I can find a good way to avoid Int requirements on feats especially), which one is lower may very well be a moot point. His deeply-seeded desire to emulate what he perceives as the upper crust, the truly important and significant people of the world is intended to be impeded by his inability to decipher complex social and political structures, his inability to separate his brutish Orc instincts from his ability to reason and his complete inability to understand nuance and subtlety especially as they concern the tropes and stereotypes of nobility.

One of the other things that I should've put in the OP that I forgot about was that I'd like to fit Leadership in there somewhere, the idea being that I would have some kind of perpetual cheer section following me around and maybe eventually a squire, of sorts (yes I know that squires are usually only for knights, but seeing a squire as something prestigious even if it doesn't make sense for him to have one seems like something he would do).

Is there any reason why a core book bard is not considered?

ok, he doesn't have full bab and he has a smattering of spells but 'lovable oaf' is highly doable with a bard, his antics even improves morale (bonuses) for his teammates!

The only real reason it hasn't been considered is because I was fairly set on being a melee, non-caster. The 'lovable oaf' quality is definitely not on the top of my priorities, just would be a fun addition I think. That said, I may look at some bard builds now, I haven't really done that yet.

I have been trying to theorycraft a character that has been on my mind awhile and I've hit several roadblocks, so I thought that posting a thread here might help shake loose some good ideas.

Basically, Quincy is an Orc (or a Half-Orc) who thinks of himself as an exceptionally fancy person, obsessed with his own personal prestige and social standing and, in his mind, perfectly espouses the ideal of a noble gentleman. He is also dumb as rocks and doesn't quite understand the subtleties of high society, often relying on 'common sense' to come to conclusions such as; if wearing a monocle makes you fancy, wearing two of them at the same time must make you really fancy.

Originally the idea I had was to make a Dual-Rapier Duelist as the Duelist (and thusly the rapier) seem to me the most iconic of combat styles for a nobleman. I ran into all kinds of issues trying to make a viable character and ended up having to compromise a lot of what I wanted to accomplish in the process, which is rather annoying.

Here are some basic things that I am looking for in a build;

Uses Rapiers - I realize they are sub-optimal weapons, but the thematic elements to this character are really important to me and I can't think of another weapon that is as 'fancy'. One thing I was briefly considering was making him wield an oversized rapier, possibly as a themed Titan Mauler, but it seems like Titan Mauler is kind of broken/useless? He also does not necessarily need to rely on Duelist-style Dex-based combat, but it is preferred.

Does not rely on Int for viability - I fully intend to dump the crap out of Int.

Makes use of Intimidate - Quincy doesn't understand what it means to be aloof and thoroughly enjoys making people pee their pants.

Able to put points into Cha - not an absolute necessity but it would be nice to make him rather charismatic, a lovable oaf of sorts.

Viability - I don't expect this character to top DPR charts or anything but he would eventually used in a game, so he needs to have some semblance of viability as a melee combatant.

PRD only - I can only reference the Paizo PRD for materials. If it's not on there, I can't use it. (but if it fits the characters theme particularly well, feel free to suggest it anyway as I might be able to negotiate).

So if anyone can think of any suggestions as far as class choices and/or feat/trait choices, I would be much obliged.