From the Double Crossbow's description:
Reloading one bolt is a standard action; the Rapid Reload feat reduces this to a move action. Crossbow Mastery allows you to reload both bolts as a move action
Assuming that I have both Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery, does Inexplicable Reload reduce the reload time from a move action to a Free Action?
Also: Do you start your turn with both bolts loaded? Or just one? I would assume both because the Double Crossbow's description makes no mention of loading one bolt at a time.
Nope. Inexplicable reload specifically states an aorder of quickeness
it specifies a move action becomes a swift. So a lv 11 bolt ace can reload a double crossbow as a swift action. Allowing for only 2 (3 with reloading hand magic active). So it'll never fire more bolts than a normal xbow or bow. I'm thinking hte specicfic nature of the wording is to prevent reloading too often with it.
So you could realod both bolts as a swift action.
"Also: Do you start your turn with both bolts loaded? Or just one? I would assume both because the Double Crossbow's description makes no mention of loading one bolt at a time."
Do you mean at the beginning of a fight? as long as you had preloaded it then yes both bolts.. If you happen to have it empty before the fight starts then you have to load it. By whatever action it is.
If you do not yet have crossbow mastery then it would take 1 moveaction per bolt. So 2 move actions to reaload both. If you have mastery then you load both with just the one action.
Is that what you were asking?
Zwordsman wrote: it specifies a move action becomes a swift. So a lv 11 bolt ace can reload a double crossbow as a swift action. Allowing for only 2 (3 with reloading hand magic active). So it'll never fire more bolts than a normal xbow or bow. I'm thinking hte specicfic nature of the wording is to prevent reloading too often with it.
So you could realod both bolts as a swift action.
Wow, I'm not sure how I missed that in the rules text. Thanks for clarifying that.
Zwordsman wrote: "Also: Do you start your turn with both bolts loaded? Or just one? I would assume both because the Double Crossbow's description makes no mention of loading one bolt at a time."
Do you mean at the beginning of a fight? as long as you had preloaded it then yes both bolts.. If you happen to have it empty before the fight starts then you have to load it. By whatever action it is.
If you do not yet have crossbow mastery then it would take 1 moveaction per bolt. So 2 move actions to reaload both. If you have mastery then you load both with just the one action.
The second sentence of Inexplicable Reload reads "As long as she has at least 1 grit point, she always starts each round of combat (even a surprise round) with her crossbow loaded." I'm assuming that this means both bolts in the double crossbow, but I was hoping someone else could confirm that I'm not completely insane.
ah i see.
and yeah it means both bolts. Because the crossbow isn't properly loaded without both. Due to what it is in specific.
No real RAW rule there but it makes the most sense. Since if you were using a repeating bow it would mean the clip. So it should mean by logical conclusion that it's "properly loaded" for the crossbow. I.e. Both shots for a double.
It's a lil debatable if you odn't have crossbow mastery. I could see a gm saying no. But once you have the ability to load both as one action. it makes the most sense that it works like that.
which means once per battle you could as a full round action fire 6 total bolts~
No doubling up on precision damage but double dex, double enchantment bonus, double elements you put on it~
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I believe the minotaur double crossbow would allow free action reloads.
Techincally they do. and techinally its allowed in PFS
but it's not actually listed out cost wise anywhere that I can find. I can find it's stats on the minotaur's page. But it's a bit fuzzy for some gms. Such as.. is it large sized like a minotaur and we have to scale it down or something? etc.
I wasn't allowed to snag it due to the missing data. I had to go on a quest to hunt down a existing version to backwards make into a smaller on in my last game.
but with rapid reload it makes it move action per arrow.and does not have a specific wording agianst crossbow mastery. So it would reduce it to free.
That it does. The non-Minotaur version should be trashed/ignored/derided/mocked and permanently replaced.
Basic version being minotaur sized would in fact be large already. Fine if you're large or if you've got Powerful Build, but otherwise you will require a smaller version.
There was a minotaur book (very small/short) that had the crossbow. I do not recall if prices were listed, but given the abberant feat requirements and cost of the basic double, "same price" is already more than enough
yeah so minotaur is a matter of GM ability.
honestly I'm not sure how one buys it in pfs if they can't find the cost etc.
maybe in that minotaur book you mentioned but i've never seen it outside the beastry..
SO yeah if home game, see if you can have a downsized minotaur xbow (or if you can hunt it down). That'll let you reload as a free action and fire 2 shots per shot in a round.. which can turn into quite a few per round. It basically becomes Edgar's autocrossbow or Vanhellsing's autocrossbow
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Yeah, apologies for not going a bit more in-depth.
The Minotaur Double Crossbow is in Core Monsters Revisited. You can find info on it on the d20pfsrd under the Minotaur entry.
Getting it is tricky, the stats are tricky, and it should probably be replaced by the Double Crossbow. But it is allowed in PFS as Zwordsman mentioned.
My recommendation is to speak frankly with the GM about it. Don't try to deceive him or her or things could get sour.
Yup. Pretty well need a fair bit GM help/sign off on it.
worth noting while your talking If they don't like the minotaur one. Then ask if you can reload one bolt on the double xbow as a free action with crossbow mastery. It honestly makes sense.. You know the crossbow canload one at a time and still fire (sincce at first you can only load it one at a time).
If they let you load one at a time then at the least its no worse than any other xbow, and occcasionally you get a twofer shot.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Makes sense. I'm actually curious how the DPR would hold up vs a classic Gunslinger (and also compared to a double-barreled version), but my guess is in-line. Especially when you consider taking a feat for Exotic Weapon Prof.
As a note, I dug up my Classic Monsters Revisited. Minotaur double crossbows are exotic weapons worth 300 gold. They deal 2d8 damage (1d8 times 2) for a medium creature. Still, unlikely to just find one of these sitting around the world or in a shop and especially not one for a medium creature.
Xethik wrote:
the stats are tricky, and it should probably be replaced by the Double Crossbow.
Nah, that's the part where I have to disagree. The core book double crossbow is a mess of worthlessness. A "trap option" in every sense, which I have great difficulty believing was anything but deliberate design. It requires more training and feats than a simple weapon, performs far worse, and completely breaks down the moment additional attacks are available for other options even though multiple attacks are the primary method of growth for martial damage dealers. It is also very expensive.
Some look at the handful of exotic weapons that are particularly powerful and say "They have to be better because they require additional feats and training to use effectively". They look at the repeating crossbows and say "Well crossbows are a simple weapon so they must not be as good", get reminded that these are exotics, and "oh well not all weapons are created equal lol".
Fact is, game systems require consistency. The standard Double only works to hamper and hold-back a character, and no amount of "but you can still choose it for roleplay reasons" makes how badly it screws the character okay. The Minotaur Double may not be ideal, but it works within the system and its use can grow along a character.
In a related question: what happens with a Repeating Crossbow?
Does Inexplicable Reload replace the magazine of the repeating crossbow each round?
Well a lv 11 bolt ace +some access to repeating hand makes it pretty nifty.
Though I prefer gunslinger 5 + someo ther class ( I like Feral Hunter) that has reloading hands. Then go down the vital strike line (the weapon damage is both bolts. so I personally think it does both for vital). Then I just focus on the vital strike shots + gravity bow and reloading hands. It makes a decent sniper. Though not the best at all.
Even with minotaur crossbow your damage will be equal to a bow guy until the third bab attack comes online. Then you shoot a few more a round in total.
both get bab and rapid shot. Manyarrows for a bow. counting crossbow mastery the feats for both are pretty close to the same, maybe 1 more on the crossbow side actually. so only once you get to the third bab where the bow is firing 5 does the crossbow fire more bolts at 6. Doubling all the damages except for precision. and crits.
I honestly feel like crossbows are very much made for hte one shot a round style. Which is near impossible to pull off without something like a double crossbow with vital strikes. Even then it's not the best.. though you can go vs touch with a grit spend. (later free if you wish).
And Inex Reload does give you the option to replace the whole magazine yes. Because that is how the weapon is reloaded. In actual fact Crossbow Mastery itself would make it a free action to reload a repeating crossobw. Reloading is the clip. loading is the level for a bolt.
I think anyway
i will say I really wish Inexpelicable reload came at a much loweer level and counted as rapid reload for purposes of feats..
For a Bolt Ace the Minotaur or regular double crossbow is an exelent option.
Crossbow Mastery (advanced players guide):
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot.
Benefit: The time required for you to reload any type of crossbow is reduced to a free action, regardless of the type of crossbow used. You can fire a crossbow as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow. Reloading a crossbow for the type of crossbow you chose when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.
Now, combine this with crossbow training that gives you dex mod. to dmg on one or both bolts+ any other dmg like deadly aim, gravity bow etc. and you are looking at some serious dmg.
on lvl 11 you kan take signature deed that reduces grit cost of sharp shot to 0, and you now use ranged touch on all attacks
That combo does work for Minotaur double xbow. but will not work with the standard double xbow. That has wording restrictions on it that cite that even with crossbow mastery it can only go to .. move? i think it was to load both bolts.
crossbow mastery shoudl work on the minotaur double xbow, due to the lack of special wording on it.
Zwordsman wrote: That combo does work for Minotaur double xbow. but will not work with the standard double xbow. That has wording restrictions on it that cite that even with crossbow mastery it can only go to .. move? i think it was to load both bolts.
crossbow mastery shoudl work on the minotaur double xbow, due to the lack of special wording on it.
You are right in that on the regular double crossbow its a move action to reload both bolts. Bolt Ace still have a trick up his/her sleeve.
Inexplicable Reload (Ex): At 11th level, loading a crossbow becomes unthinking and automatic for a bolt ace. As long as she has at least 1 grit point, she always starts each round of combat (even a surprise round) with her crossbow loaded. Also the amount of time needed to reload a crossbow decreases by one step: a standard action becomes a move action, a move action becomes a swift action, a swift action becomes a free action, and a free action becomes not an action.
This mean that you will get at least 2 shots every round. You start the round loaded, fire first shot, reload as a swift action, and fire again. You might even get 3 shots if you can also use a move action to reload.
Is it legal to craft a minotaur double crossbow and use the stats for that instead of the regular crossbow?
It sort of make sense if the Minotaurs have taken the original double crossbow and improved it.
and then the PC came across the improved crossbow and scaled it down again for their own uses. It makes sense that an adventurer type would be exposed to something like that and being an archetype of Gunslinger, they would be drawn to an exotic and unique to them kind of weapon.
Xethik wrote: The Minotaur Double Crossbow is in Core Monsters Revisited. You can find info on it on the d20pfsrd under the Minotaur entry. You can't, actually. The Minotaur Double Crossbow listed on d20PFSRD has the wrong stats. The weapon costs 300 GP, does 1d6 per bolt for a small character, 1d8 per bolt for a medium, and 2d6 per bolt for a large. For some reason the d20PFSRD not only omits the price and stats for small and medium, but it lists the wrong damage for large.
Also, it's Classic Monsters Revisited, not Core.
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