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Are we still making a list of all the features that got hit by this? Because I think I found another one: Vivisectionist (I know, not allowed in PFS, but it's an official Paizo archetype)

Torturer's Eye wrote:
At 2nd level, a vivisectionist adds deathwatch to his formula book as a 1st-level extract.
Torturous Transformation wrote:

At 7th level, a vivisectionist adds anthropomorphic animal to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract.

[...]
At 9th level, a vivisectionist adds awaken and baleful polymorph to his formula book as 3rd-level extracts.

Since the Alchemist isn't a spontaneous caster he doesn't have "Spells Known" he has Formulae in a Formulae Book. These are given by a "Class Feature" but some clarification may be needed.

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Collegiate Arcanist is a little odd, since it says "At each class level, a Collegiate arcanist chooses a spell from the druid spell list and treats it as if it were on the spell list of one of her arcane spellcasting classes.", but doesn't actually add it to your class list. (semantics, but I know there are others on the forum who'll pick)


I'd personally say that it doesn't actually make you warm, but it makes you feel warm.

A 'fun' GM trick would be to create a phantasmal flame that makes people 'feel' warm around it, but then they start making Fort saves overnight due to the actual cold (and I suppose Will saves due to them 'interacting' with the lack of real heat).

That would actually make a really cool encounter. Someone in a cold climate / high mountain pass creates a story about an 'eternal bonfire' and then kills / consumes the people who freeze to death around the 'bonfire'.


Another 'Cheesy' use of Spell Like Abilities was early entry into Eldritch Knight. There aren't too many builds that call for it other than Arcane Archer, but there was that.


Don't forget Ioun stones, you can have (theoretically) infinite of them floating over your head.


Protoman wrote:

Aren't both those questions sort of asking the same thing?

If a shield champion is level 5, he's got throwing and returning shield and brawler's flurry and BAB of 5. Can flurry for +3/+3. He can use his thrown shield for both those attacks (it'll bounce off first target and hit second, but no consecutive attacks on same right; though bouncing off two or more targets repeatedly ought to work), 1 shield bash and 1 thrown, 1 shield bash and 1 unarmed/other brawler weapon, or 1 thrown shield and one unarmed/whatever else qualifying weapon.
If shield champion 6, or your example of shield champion 5/fighter 1, the BAB is +6/+1. So flurry is +4/+4/-1, and can be used with any combination of thrown shield, shield bash, or other melee brawler attack.
One thing to remember is that if you throw the shield, it comes back at end of your turn so you can't go throw shield THEN shield bash in the same turn.

There's a bit between the two quotes that basically says you can bounce off other stuff and it won't be damaged.

Anyway, the two rulings are if the line "additional attacks from a high base attack bonus" mean you only get your BAB attacks, or does "A shield champion can throw a shield as part of a brawler's flurry." supplant the first rule and allow you to make all your attacks (including the offhand ones)?


Rapid Shot wrote:
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
Brawler's Flurry wrote:
Starting at 2nd level, a brawler can make a brawler's flurry as a full-attack action. When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the "monk" special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.

Rapid Shot kicks in when you're making a full-attack, Brawler's Flurry IS a full-attack, neither contradicts on the action economy.

The question there is the wording on Rapid Shot "you can fire one additional time this round", which sounds like it's limited to a bow, crossbow, or firearm.

Everyone seems to 'know' that Rapid Shot works with thrown weapons, but there's no rule anywhere that explicitly states it (probably a 3.x FAQ that got eaten by Wizards and Paizo never reprinted)


I created a new thread about a similar question here, but I'll ask this here:

Returning shield says both "If a shield champion has additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, these additional attacks can be ricochets off an earlier target." AND "A shield champion can throw a shield as part of a brawler's flurry."

Does the first part about "additional attacks from a high base attack bonus" mean that you can ONLY get those iterative attacks from your BAB and the part about working with brawler's flurry is just repetitive? (IE: Brawler 5 / Fighter 1 gets two 'Returning shield' attacks and one 'offhand' for something else)

Alternately, does the part about it working with brawler's flurry actually mean that you get all your Two Weapon Fighting attacks as per brawler's flurry AND any extra from BAB (IE: Brawler 5 / Fighter 1 gets two iterative attacks and one TWF attack)


Just a silly thing that came from showing a friend this thread a few weeks ago:

If brilliant energy arrows are effected by gravity but pass through solid (nonliving) objects, at some point there's going to be hundreds, if not thousands, of arrows, crossbow bolts, ballista shot, etc. orbiting the planet's core.

Do with this idea as you may.


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

So it's come up in a game I'm in that returning shield says both "If a shield champion has additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, these additional attacks can be ricochets off an earlier target." AND "A shield champion can throw a shield as part of a brawler's flurry."

Now I (the Shield Champion) argue that the last line is meant to be that the Shield Champion can make all their Brawler's Flurry attacks with the thrown shield, since they can normally wield a shield with Brawler's Flurry (they're a Close weapon)

The GM refers to the first line and says that the Shield Champion can throw the shield and get his BAB attacks, but can't throw the 'Offhand' attacks, since they're not 'Iterative'.

-

Any official word that I've missed that clarifies this?

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Bonus question: Can you combine any of that with Rapid Shot?


Wands do make it MUCH cheaper than Ioun Stones, though they're not Permanent.

Price costs at minimum caster level:
Lesser Evolution Surge = 6,000 GP
Evolution Surge = 15,750 GP
Greater Evolution Surge = 30,000 GP

That's a hell of a lot more reasonable than 320k for a single fixed 4 point Evolution.

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That brings up a point I forgot to mention. The Evolution Surge Ioun Stones would be a FIXED Evolution.

Dafydd wrote:
Tell them to buy Wands of Evolution Surge, it will be cheaper and will help level out the action economy. Well, unless they have a Wandolon (hands and skilled UMD).

That could be solved by dropping one level of Broodmaster Summoner into a Wandolon with UMD and hands specifically to cast buffs.


It gets worse when you do silly things like make the shield Adamantine (which isn't covered as a defensive item) or Mithral (which has a listing for Shields that covers if it's used as a weapon too)

It gets even worse if you do something silly like wanting a Mithral (Defense) / Adamantine (Weapon) Shield, which RAW may or may not be allowable!


Lesser Evolution Surge is a 2nd level Summoner spell that lasts minutes per level.
2nd level spell (2) x Minimum Caster Level (4) x Continuous (2,000) x Minutes per level (2) x Slotless (2) = 2 x 4 x 2,000 x 2 x 2 = 64,000 GP

Evolution Surge is a 3rd level Summoner spell that lasts minutes per level
3rd level spell (3) x Minimum Caster Level (7) x Continuous (2,000) x Minutes per level (2) x Slotless (2) = 3 x 7 x 2,000 x 2 x 2 = 168,000 GP

Greater Evolution Surge is a 4th level Summoner spell that lasts minutes per level.
4th level spell (4) x Minimum Caster Level (10) x Continuous (2,000) x Minutes per level (2) x Slotless (2) = 4 x 10 x 2,000 x 2 x 2 = 320,000 GP

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Holy crap, that's expensive! But you're essentially getting Extra Evolution 'free'.


Easier than Permanency (which isn't on the Summoner's list) is a Slotless (Ioun) Wondrous Item that provides the same effect.

It might cost more GP, but the mechanics are sound.


It'd just be an expression of your heritage coming out later than usual.


In a related question: what happens with a Repeating Crossbow?

Does Inexplicable Reload replace the magazine of the repeating crossbow each round?


Yea, visibly outlining doesn't have the explicit mechanical benefit of breaking concealment like Faerie Fire does.


So I was looking at some related things and thought I'd share this discovery:
Faerie Fire explicitly says "Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. ", thus allowing you to apply your Dex to AC.

Glitterdust Mechanically only provides a -40 to stealth and a chance to blind. There's nothing in it that breaks Invisibility's Total Concealment.


There's a trait that lets you wield any object related to your work as a weapon: Rough and Ready

It doesn't say if it's a Simple or Martial weapon, but it's NOT an Improvised weapon.


Covert Operator wrote:
Valdimarian wrote:

The important thing this boils down to is order of operations:

1) Feral Combat Training 'modifies' (replaces) the Natural Weapon [Claw, Bite, Wing, etc.] damage (thus it is now a Natural Weapon with base damage the same as your Unarmed Strike damage) THEN apply Improved Natural Weapon, increasing the damage by one step.

2) Improved Natural Weapon boosts the Natural Weapon damage, THEN Feral Combat Training kicks in to modify the damage.

Nice summary, but I would add:

3) Improved Natural Weapon boosts natural weapon damage by nature of counting as one size larger, then Monk Unarmed Strike kicks in, increasing damage to the amount shown for large monks on Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.

For your other question, the Bashing/Shield Spikes + Brawler's Close Weapon Mastery would have the same answer as whatever answer we eventually reach on the INA + FCT discussion.
This answer really boils down to: ask your DM because there will never be a unanimous agreement on these messageboards.

Good point on 3, which raises the question: "Does Improved Natural Attack stack with Enlarge Person or Lead Blades?" (which can be applied to a Catfolk with Claw Blades)

As to the other question I did ask my GM, he shot it down. Most of my research on the question said that there was a 3.5 FAQ post that was never was never approved or denied for conversion to Pathfinder and James Jacobs is the only Pathfinder resource that's said anything on the topic.


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Krith wrote:
The definition of sneak attack states "If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage." I'm arguing that knowing where the attack is coming from and when, and not being otherwise flatfooted is a valid argument for a negation of the SA.

Knowing where the attack comes from doesn't break Invisibility, and Invisibility says the target is denied their dex to AC, therefore they're eligible for sneak attack. You can houserule it yourself, but Invisible creatures deny Dex to AC, and if you're denied Dex to AC you're eligible for Sneak Attack, that's just how it goes.

Krith wrote:
Again, the rules specifically state the DC to hear a bow being drawn which to me, means the designers intended to allow reactions to said bow draw with a perception check.

Reactions yes, but it doesn't specify what those reactions are. My reading is that this would be the DC to roll Perception in order to act during a Surprise round or locate the square of an invisible archer. We've already established that the square has been located, but it doesn't change the invisibility rules that anyone targeted by an invisible creature is denied their Dex.

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About the Flour issue, there was an item in Ultimate Equipment which settles this question perfectly:

Ultimate Equipment, page 70 wrote:
Powdered chalk, flour, and similar materials are popular with adventurers for their utility in pinpointing invisible creatures. Throwing a bag of powder into a square is an attack against AC 5, and momentarily reveals whether an invisible creature is there. A much more effective method is to spread powder on a surface (which takes 1 full round) and look for footprints.


I recall a feat or trait somewhere that let you treat a Torch as a Club (possibly Improvised) that did an additional 1d4 fire damage.


The important thing this boils down to is order of operations:
1) Feral Combat Training 'modifies' (replaces) the Natural Weapon [Claw, Bite, Wing, etc.] damage (thus it is now a Natural Weapon with base damage the same as your Unarmed Strike damage) THEN apply Improved Natural Weapon, increasing the damage by one step.

2) Improved Natural Weapon boosts the Natural Weapon damage, THEN Feral Combat Training kicks in to modify the damage.

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Not sure if it applies, but past rulings on Bashing Shields and Shield Spikes have been that the Shield benefits from both.

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Related question: If you were to use a similar boost with a Brawler's Close Weapon Mastery would the bonus damage come before or after the replacement?

(If I were to use a Bashing Shield would my shield do Unarmed Strike damage 2 sizes larger, or would it just flat replace the damage?)


I could see it as an Improvised Knife, -4 to hit and does 1d4 Piercing or Bashing with a crit of 20x2


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
It's because the extra penalties for TWF when using a not light weapon are only for the offhand. With the brawler's flurry, there is no offhand weapon to be something other than light.

That's my thinking too, I just wanted it to be made official somewhere. (Or at least to help anyone else with this line of thinking later)


@LoneKnave & @Imbicatus, Do either of you have an official ruling for that? I know it spells out the strength bonus as your full strength bonus, regardless of if it's off-hand or two-handed, but there's no specification for the To-hit penalty.

@NokolaiJuno: No, they're two separate powers, which is why the Style feats specify Brawler's Flurry OR Flurry of Blows.


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So I've looked around a bit and nobody's asked this question yet, at least not that I can tell.

What is the penalty for using a 1h (or 2h) weapon with Brawler's Flurry? I can see it going one of two ways:
1) It's a 1h weapon, and you're using it for the 'offhand' attacks portion of a Two-Weapon Fighting attack, therefore you suffer -4 to hit with all attacks.
2) Since all attacks are made with one weapon you don't have an 'off-hand' weapon, therefor you only suffer as though using Unarmed (Light) weapons.

I think the implication is that it's more like #2, since that's how Monk's Flurry of Blows works, but Flurry of Blows uses it's own rules and Brawler's Flurry borrows from Two Weapon Fighting.


As Crazy Alchemist said, the GM said no, so you're kind of screwed there.

That said, there IS a spell that allows you to do it, Telekinetic Charge, which explicitly lets you hurl your ally at an enemy using the power of your mind. With some discussion with your GM you might be able to use Telekinesis to replicate the lesser spell (and if you get a boatload of money get a ring of Telekinesis).

I suppose you could discuss using your leech as an improvised weapon and hurling it bodily at your enemy, but that would require GM permission.


I don't see why Cloak of Human Guise even mentions that it works like Hat of Disguise since the effect is very different.

Hat of Disguise grants unlimited uses of Disguise Self per day (so you have to keep re-activating it). Disguise Self grants a +10 bonus on Disguise checks and can be used to change your apparent height, weight, race, gender, age... pretty much anything a Disguise Check can change, just as a Standard Action and with a +10.

Cloak of Human Guise basically automatically succeeds a Disguise check that already has a +3 modifier (+5 minor changes, -2 different Race). It really doesn't work like a Hat of Disguise or Disguise Self AT ALL, since both of those let you majorly change your appearance. The only way it's like a Hat of Disguise or Disguise Self is that it doesn't physically change your appearance, just what people see.

****

As to the question if you can stack them, I don't think you can, since they come from the same source (Disguise Self spell), but you might be able to argue with your GM that it negates the -2 penalty for disguising yourself as another race.


It's right there in the FAQ, "as soon as you remove an item that grants an effect to the wearer, you are no longer the wearer"

If you're wearing something and the effect is "The wearer gains X" and you stop wearing it, you're no longer the wearer and no longer qualify.

On the other hand, if something says "Cast this spell" or "Use this spell effect" then it's an instantaneous effect of "Cast this spell", which may have a duration that extends beyond the casting.

Similarly, if you use a Scroll to cast a spell with a duration that spell keeps working, even though the scroll itself has disintegrated.


Scorpion Whip is a Light weapon, not a 1h weapon, so it works with Weapon Finesse just fine on it's own.

Whips are called out as Finesse weapons, letting a One Handed weapon qualify for Weapon Finesse, just like the One Handed weapon Rapier is specifically allowed to be used for Weapon Finesse.


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One goes across your waist, one goes across your chest, this is pretty common actually.

Most people think of double bandoliers as having the iconic crossed bandoliers on the chest, but instead it could be referring to one bandolier across the chest to hold up the belt bandolier and the pistol there in.


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Reading through this thread I'm not sure if the desire is for a character who is transgender, and how to play it, or how to bring the stigma and emotional feel of being transgender to a character.

Given the cost of the potion, or spell* a level 1 character probably won't have enough to have it, so it might be worth some to think about it if you're dedicated to the idea. There is a lot to be said about the personal implications, but 90% of the time Adventurer's wont be anywhere near their home or anyone from home without either GM or Player specifically invoking it. In most of Golaron your sex/gender won't matter because magic is a great equalizer ("I don't care if you're male, female, or sprout 3 of each genetalia once every 3 months, all I want to know is if you can kill the thing eating my sheep!") so unless you work with the GM to make it an issue, it probably won't come up.

*Mechanically Bestow Curse imposes a Permanent change to your character with some rather harsh maximum effects, but it can explicitly do lesser things. With GM approval one 3rd level spell and a willingly failed Will save and you've just changed Gender (sex? not sure which fits).

On the flip side of that, if you want the stigma of a real world transgender character in Pathfinder then perhaps someone who wants to be another RACE will fit the RP better. There's a few ways to change your gender in Pathfinder, but I don't know of any to permanently change your race without being reincarnated into another body. Sure your human could get surgery to have their ears pointed, or cheeks thinned, etc. but there's nothing that will permanently change them to BE an Elf.

So for the example human to elf might LOOK elven, but there are ways to divine if someone is an elf or not, and some powers or items may need you to actually be an elf to function right. (Which fits the feel of a transgender who may want to father/birth a child but lack the parts to do it). This also brings up the question of how said person is viewed by either race's xenophobic populace. Do human elitists view this person as a traitor, abandoning their native race? Do the elves view them as a poser and reject them from their community, or welcome them as a convert?


ShadowcatX, I might agree with your views, I don't agree with your arguments.

The reason this needs an FAQ is because there are multiple locations where the rules refer to "Spell Level" interchangeably with both "Effective Spell Level*" and "Spell Slot". The reason I agree that RAW refers to Effective Spell Level is that it most times it refers to "Spell Level" it spells out that it is the Effective Spell Level, and explicitly refers to the Spell Slots as such. The problem is that there are times in the rules where it isn't explicit.

*Effective Spell Level = the original spell + Heighten metamagic

* * * *
On to the RAW argument though:

Compare the wording on the limits of Globe of Invulnerability and Rod of Metamagic and they're the same:

Globe of Invulnerability wrote:
excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower.
Rod of Metamagic wrote:
[...] can be used with spells of 6th level or lower.

Both refer to "spells of x level or lower", and it's spelled out elsewhere that Globe of Invulnerability refers to the Effective Spell Level, NOT the Spell Slot.

* * * *

By the way, Metamagic on Magic Items is spelled out clearly in the Magic Item Creation section:

SRD wrote:
Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.

Cross referencing this with the Heighten Spell FAQ and "higher level" here has to mean Spell Slot, otherwise you break the rules on Metamagic changing the Effective Spell Level. (Part 2 of the Heighten Spell FAQ entry, Metamagic other than Heighten Spell raises the Spell Slot but not the Effective Spell Level) It is one of the few times where Level is ambiguous as to whether it means Effective Spell Level or Spell Slot, it's only by referencing the Heighten Spell FAQ that it becomes definitive.


Actually bbangerter, that last argument convinced me in terms of RAW... now the question for the FAQ is if it's RAI?

The fluff leans towards Metamagic Rods and Concentration Checks operating based on Spell Slot, but RAW it more often refers to Spell Level as being the Effective Spell Level, not the Spell Slot.

Personally I think it should refer to Spell Slot, but I have to agree that RAW it refers to Effective Level.


ShadowcatX wrote:
You're asking me to prove that spell level = spell level and spell level =/= spell slot.

Didn't I do the opposite of that mathmatically? In the FAQ they refer to Spell Slot as added Spell Levels.

bbangerter brings up a good point in his post, and to build on that: does using Metamagic change the DC of a Concentration check based on it's Spell Slot or it's original Spell Level?


I think we've all been sidetracked by what the real ambiguity is:
Do metamagic rods refer to the EFFECTIVE Spell Level or the Spell Level SLOT? They are both referred to as Spell Level, so the ambiguity lies with the Metamagic Rod description, not the Metamagic description.

We know that Globe of Invulnerability refers to the Effective Spell Level, but Crafting seems to refer to the Spell Level Slot (at least I've always used it that way), the question is "What do Metamagic Rods refer to?"


It's my (regrettably) poorly worded attempt to rationalize game mechanics with SCIENCE!

... which might not actually be the smartest thing in the world.

Also: why are you people quoting whole posts? I can't tell what you're referencing out of a post when all I see is a wall of text referring to 3 different things. Are you referring to my attempt at using geometry to break down the difference between spell level slot and effective spell level or are you referring to my heavy handed use of bolds and italics?


I agree with Case 1, Metamagic Rods (and crafted items) use the Spell Level (Slot), not the (Effective) Spell Level.

Heighten spell actually explains the difference between Spell Level (Slot) and (Effective) Spell Level

SRD wrote:
A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies.

So Spell Level is the Spell Level Slot and Effective Spell Level is the base spell (plus Heighten spell).

This is backed up in the wording of the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:
If he prepares a quickened fireball, that requires a 7th-level spell slot (fireball 3rd level + quicken 4 levels). The spell's DC is still 13 + his Int bonus because it's still just a 3rd-level spell, even though it's in a 7th-level spell slot.

This says that Spell Slot (7) is equal to addition of Spell Levels (3+4) but the Effective Spell Level (3) remains the same.

So if a Spell Slot is the simple addition of Spell Levels according to everything I've ever learned about adding variables in math and science since Geometry means that it IS in fact Spell Levels:
3x+4x=7y
7x=7y
x=y
replace X with Spell Level
replace Y with Spell Slot
Spell Level = Spell Slot