Question on Summon Natures Ally Spell


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Summon Natures Ally

Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 round Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: One summoned creature Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No

This spell summons a natural creature. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.

The spell conjures one of the creatures from the 1st-level list on the accompanying Summon Nature’s Ally table. You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can change that choice each time you cast the spell. All the creatures on the table are neutral unless otherwise noted.

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Question/Situation:

A 10 lvl Druid Summons an Earth Elemental and instructs it to attack a demon that he is in combat with. The Elemental attacks following the demon into a hallway, out of site of the Druid.

The druid is attacked by another creature and takes massive damage-a comrade of the druid moves forward and changes the druid into gaseous form to keep him from taking more damage.

The Earth Elemental kills the Demon.
The spell still has another 5 rounds to go---what does the Earth Elemental do?
He CANNOT communicate with the Druid.

Does the Earth Elemental become "free-willed" now that the initial instructions been fulfilled?

If so would be angry and attack the nearest creature?

What would any summoned creature do after its initial instruction has been fulfilled?

Thanks Guys!/sorry for the rambling.

Dark Archive

I would have it come back to the last area it received instruction from. It would then hang out until given additional instruction as to who to attack, not attack. If it was attacked then it would attack back ea. rd. On those opp. Till given a particular direction.
also I would say it would avoid areas, etc.. that would cause it harm.
if anyone else spoke the lang. Then that could have some bearing.

Contributor

If there are any still standing, I would default back to the "[i]t attacks your opponents to the best of its ability" line. Even in the unlikely event one of the druid's allies speaks Terran, I'd be hesitant to allow anyone else to give it directions, but neither would I have it attack the druid's obvious allies. Summoned creatures, as I understand it, follow those directions of its summoner it can understand and if no such directions are forthcoming are pretty much limited to attacking opponents of the summoner.

If things get really complicated (as in this situation!) I would take the summoned being's language, alignment, Intelligence score, and Wisdom score into account and adjudicate according to what the summoned creature understood of its (now-absent in this example) summoner's desires. Which is to say, if there are still bad guys back in the room with the druid (gaseous druid!) and his allies, he attacks the bad guys. If there are no bad guys left standing, then I suppose it would just do what Joe suggested and "hang out."


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm thinking of assigning a percentage to the following below and trying it if it happens again. Since it is of Neutral alignment and intelligent and basically stranded with no direction.

After the initial task is completed and no communication is possible with it-
It may

Try to return back to its own plane-(which upon realizing it can not- may antagonize it more) It has fulfilled its part of the bargain and quite rightly wants to go home--if it realizes that killing its summoner may return it home-it will attack. (Intelligence check here) Highly unlikely, but possible.

Attack the closest creature (excluding the druid-because it may still feel some connection)-unless the summoned creature realizes that it has been compelled to do an evil act such as kill youngins-etc. Unlikely, but possible.

Move/defend a creature(s) that appears to be weak. 50/50?

Run off..Highly possible

Return back to its summoning spot.Highly possible

Grab the loot and run. Which seems to be logical-it feels it has done its part-it takes whatever it deems valuable as payment and waits for the spell to return it and its new booty...Highly possible

Its possible that it would do a combination of the things above depending on the situation.

Also factoring in its Health-Intelligence-Alignment and its initial command.


If you want to be pedantic, the spell allows the earth elemental to attack the druids enemies, which by neccesity involves some way of knowing who those enemies are. While I don't allow that to be used as a traitor detector, the earth elemental still has human level intelligence and can most certainly tell the difference between an ally and an enemy.

Silver Crusade

Where is all this other stuff coming from? The summoned creature will attack opponents of the summoner to the best of its ability. If it can't figure out what those are, it should just 'hang out'. There should be no risk of it attacking the summoner without magic to compel it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Im more looking for what the creature does after it opponent has been defeated, and the Druid cannot communicate with it. As for attacking its summoner-thats why I said Highly Unlikely.

Since the spell doesn't confer any kind of mind control -it is free to do what it wants after the initial instructions have been fulfilled. And since it is Intelligent and Neutral it has a wide range of possible things - of course depending on the combat/situation.

Summoning creatures I believe is inherently dangerous and in this case you are pulling an intelligent being from its own plane and forcing it to do battle for you.

Im not trying to pick sides in the battle but just figure it out beforehand.

Silver Crusade

You quoted the rules above. They are quite clear. Lacking communication with the summoner, the summoned creature attacks the summoner's opponents to the best of its abilities.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

And then? After they have been defeated?

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

You can't have the summoned creature turn on the summoner. That's way outside the scope of the spell. There is also a specific spell, bite the hand that does this to summoned creatures.

The kind of summoning you can turn back on your players is when they preform a planar binding spell. In the description of that spell text, it says things like "..if you ever roll a natural 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the spell's effect and can escape or attack you...Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only to inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge."

There is also such text when attempting to control undead. "Intelligent undead creatures remember that you controlled them, and they may seek revenge after the spell's effects end."

But there is no such qualifier when casting a summon nature's ally (or summon monster) spell. So no, it won't turn on the summoner.
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I'm getting the vibe, and I may be wrong, that a player summoning creatures to fight for them is an irritating tactic for some people. So here's an aside on that.

I completely agree. Both as a GM and a player I dislike summoning. It's time consuming, rather bland, and overall fairly unimaginative. Everyone ends up summoning the same 1-3 things off each list. That said, it's a perfectly valid tactic in PFS.

I can't stop players from doing it nor can I tweak the rules of the spell to punish players that choose to cast it. Nor would I want to. That's not how PFS works. This isn't a home game, we've got to follow the rules as presented by the campaign leadership to provide a stable environment for our players as they move from table to table. It would be frustrating for players to be able to summon freely at one table then not at a second, for fear that their creatures might turn on them.

So my recommendation is to do what you should do whenever a player uses a tactic in combat that bogs down the game or makes other players feel invalidated. Try to streamline that tactic and communicate with the player (perhaps in confidence) your concerns.

"Hey Walter, if you're going to summon those monsters each fight could you jot down their important stats so you don't need to keep borrowing my bestiary? Also, can you keep track of their remaining rounds so I don't have to? Thanks!"

"Hey Walter, summoning is awesome strong and your character is great at it. However, when you summon _____ each fight it tends to overshadow the other players at this table. Perhaps you could reserve it for the most dire circumstances and let the other folks get a few swings in? I know they'd appreciate it. Thanks!"

Silver Crusade

malier wrote:
And then? After they have been defeated?

If there is no communications, then how can the summoned creature know they are all defeated? It should wait and see if there are more opponents.

If there is communications, then the summoner can

SNA wrote:
If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.

Edit: Added reference quote.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

malier wrote:
And then? After they have been defeated?

They mill about? They act in character?

The summoned wolves start biting at the corpses of the downed foes.
The summoned celestial kneels in solemn remembrance of the fallen NPC.
The summoned earth elemental starts looking at the stonework with keen interest.

If the PC that summoned them can communicate some how--speak with animals, or they speak the language the creature shares--they can give the creature updated instructions.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Fair enough Walter--The point of the my posting is to streamline everything, before the next game. This last time was unique in that the Druid was unable to communicate (grunt and point) or whatever and left the direction of the summoned creature up in the air.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

No sweat--it's a good question to post. Summoning is complicated enough that it has an entire page in the CRB. And there's a reason why it's commonly thought of as one of the most powerful tactics in the game.

If you know that this player is going to summon in the future, I'd ask them to print off the stat blocks they need for their creatures, and get extra sets of dice so they can do their turn quickly. Combat slows down when one player has 3+ creatures to control on their turn. Anything your player can do ahead of time to speed that up makes your life GMing a whole lot easier.

When I've summoned in the past I've handed my creature's stat blocks to another player (a fighter or barbarian) and let them run it in combat for me. Anything you can do to speed up the turns is appreciated.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah and this player has been known to cast more than one summoning spell in combat and summon multiple Elementals at a time...ha
But that is a good point in it does kinda over shadow the other players in the group when he does it--I can see why I heard certain side comments on it.

Thanks again!


In the specific question asked in the OP, I would think the earth elemental would return to where it last saw its summoner, and if its summoner is still there, wait for further instructions or if it sees an enemy, attack. If the summoner is unconscious or otherwise unable to give instructions, it will guard him. If the summoner is no longer there, it will use the remaining rounds its summoning will last looking for him.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

You can also when you summon it designate the enemies and an order to attack them. That way the creature will just go down the list of Foe 1, Foe 2, Foe 3 etc..

If you decide later you really want him to attack Foe 5 than you must be able to communicate.

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