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This actually came up in a game, recently, but if they don't make the roll, they shouldn't know even what type a critter is.
Player: I roll a 5 total
GM: this creature looks sort of humanoid, but you cannot figure out what it is.,
This is important when characters have abilities that might key off of knowledge, such as an inquisitors bane ability.
At higher levels, do you know if that creature is a unique or rare type of giant, an Efreet, a demon, devil, etc. maybe it is a golem? You do not roll high enough, you get nothing.
This is a reason at least one GM I have played with collects the players knowledge skills ahead of time, and if you want to identify, you do not know which skill you are using, at lest if you fail!
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I played the other day in an elf-themed PFS scenario.
I decided to be a smartass and ask about the racial abilities of elves, and proceeded to botch the untrained Knowledge:Local with Int as my dump stat. (Barbarian Sorcerer PC..)
Ended up spending the whole scenario convinced elves lived in little mushroom houses passing out cookies.
You take the Knowledge skills super literally, and stuff gets stupid. Like, "You've never heard of elves before" stupid.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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For races, I separate the questions they get from the Name / Type / Traits. So at making the check, they get Ghoul, Undead, Undead traits, and one question.
I'm used to the questions going into some pretty broad categories, and some very specific ones. Every 5 successes grants one category, with the player picking which categories:
Elemental Stuff: Gives all the elemental resistances (with their amounts in terms of "a little", "some", or "a lot") and immunities
Damage Reduction: Gives all the physical DR (I'll give the actual numbers here)
SR: It's own little question, and gets the specific amount.
Special Attacks: All of them, with numbers
Special Defenses: All of them, typically immunities not listed under undead trait type things, with numbers
Other Special Abilities: All of them, with numbers.
Feats (sometimes I'll include this in the other parts)
Saves
AC
HP
attack modifiers
If something doesn't have anything in a category, I'll tell them so and give them some other category that's close, ie if they ask for SR and it doesn't have any, I'll give them elemental or defenses.
So, that's what I'm used to as a player and what I try to do as a GM in standard play. When the GM knows the character well from prior experience, this is the one I love to hear: "What's the most important thing for my character to know about this monster?" When I'm using my sorceress, the GM will typically give me elemental, then SR. When I'm using my gunslinger, he'll give me it's DR.
The other question I love to hear is "What is it's thing? / What does it do?" Which allows me to say what the monster is all about its most famous aspects.
BTW, I disagree on casters not needing to know if something has SR because they do the same thing anyways. It lets them know if they should use that piercing metamagic rod or dweomer's essence on their next spell.
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As a player I frequently ask broader, less mechanical questions. Helps encourage the GM to give more flavorful answers.
Like: "How is it most likely going to try and kill us?"
"What would this creature be most famous for?"
"What would Marcus Farabellus have told us to watch out for when fighting this creature?""What should we not bother doing when fighting this creature?"
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As a player I frequently ask broader, less mechanical questions. Helps encourage the GM to give more flavorful answers.
Like: "How is it most likely going to try and kill us?"
"What would this creature be most famous for?"
"What would Marcus Farabellus have told us to watch out for when fighting this creature?"
"What should we not bother doing when fighting this creature?"
My new favorite:
"Can I pet it?"
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When "asking a question" I've thought of it less meta-gamey. A wizard isn't all that concerned about DR or special abilities, but is very interested in elemental resistances and immunities.DR is usually the first question asked, even by players of wizards. It shouldn't be surprising, a wizard has a vested interest in making sure the fighters protecting his soft hide be able to do so as efficiently as possible.
I agree. DR is usually the first question asked. Which is ironic because it is the question most likely to generate a useless answer since most monsters don't have DR. This highlights the problem of letting the players ask the question.
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As a player I frequently ask broader, less mechanical questions. Helps encourage the GM to give more flavorful answers.
Like: "How is it most likely going to try and kill us?"
Based on the questions I have had players ask me, I would say they are usually far more interested in finding out how to kill the monster than how to not be killed by it. After all, if they succeed in doing the former, they don't have to worry about the latter.
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When "asking a question" I've thought of it less meta-gamey. A wizard isn't all that concerned about DR or special abilities, but is very interested in elemental resistances and immunities.DR is usually the first question asked, even by players of wizards. It shouldn't be surprising, a wizard has a vested interest in making sure the fighters protecting his soft hide be able to do so as efficiently as possible.
Wizard here - ....
First Question: "is it Mindless - can I effect it with Enchantments?"Second Question: "Is it resistant to or vunerable to any particular energy type?"
Third Question: "Does it have SR?"
Forth Question: "Does it talk? And Is it smart enough to understand us?"
In fact, I can't recall every asking about DR for any creature ever encountered...
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BTW, I disagree on casters not needing to know if something has SR because they do the same thing anyways. It lets them know if they should use that piercing metamagic rod or dweomer's essence on their next spell.Or just buff the party rather than drop SoD's on the monster.Maybe when you're playing at level 10+, SR becomes impenetrable, but in the games I've played, I have never seen a caster not cast a spell because of SR. And I've never seen a player with a piercing metamagic rod or dweomer's essence.
Now, if the player knew what that SR was, as in they knew they had little chance of beating it, that's different. But that information isn't typically given out, and if it its, it's the GM telling the player what to beat after they've declared the spell. But the point I'm making is that telling a 3rd level wizard the target has SR hasn't changed someone's action, ime.
SR determines if I drop a glitterdust or a blindness on it.
SR is often the FIIRST thing I ask for...Wand of Magic Missile? or Snowball?
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Based on the questions I have had players ask me, I would say they are usually far more interested in finding out how to kill the monster than how to not be killed by it. After all, if they succeed in doing the former, they don't have to worry about the latter.As a player I frequently ask broader, less mechanical questions. Helps encourage the GM to give more flavorful answers.
Like: "How is it most likely going to try and kill us?"
Depends on the players - guess this is kind of a YMMV item but for players rather than Judges.
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Maybe when you're playing at level 10+, SR becomes impenetrable
Actually, SR remains about the same the whole game as it scales based on CR rather than HD in Pathfinder. It may even get easier, since as it is more prevalent at higher levels, most PCs who use magic offensively will have strategies to beat it.
When a player asks me about a creature's SR, I generally say "This creature has (Weak/Average/Strong) Spell Resistance for its Challenge Rating." If the thing is significantly higher level (at least 3) I will say "You may have trouble getting past its SR"
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As a GM, I do:
"Would you like information about its offenses or defenses?"
This gives the player a chance to not waste his information, while still tailoring it to what his particular PC would be more interested in.
When I'm prompted to ask questions as a player, mine are:
1) "How is it most likely to ruin my day?"
2) "How is it next most likely to ruin my day?"
3) "How is it next most likely to ruin my day?"
4) etc.
Of course, this gets flavored for the individual PC- -Shadow Lodgers would ask "What did the Decemvirate leave out of the briefing?" while Silver Crusaders might word it as "What should our party be most wary of?" Etc.
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Not buying it. Most casters don't prep both glitterdust and blindness.Then you dont really know casters. I commonly with have both as a spell known on my sorcerers. They target different saves which is important for getting them to stick and blindness is one of the best conditions you can impose on an enemy. There is little that is more sad than a permanently blinded arcane caster.
In a similar vein my Oracles geenrally know both Blindness and Burst of radiance because targetting different saves is important and can easily represent a 50% or larger swing in the chance to fail.
wow... missed that comment ("I didn't SEE it, lol")
Yeah, I'm an Arcane Trickster - so I have lots of ways to make people blind... acid splash doing 1d3+5d6+1 is just ... to nice to pass up.
Glitterdust for Martial types (poor Will saves) and because it has so many other uses...
Pyrotecnics for much the same reason... (blinding, or even to just put a fire out)
Blindness for those creatures with good will saves - and for those creatures without eyes (deafness or when we are facing (or going to face) Harpies. It also helps that it is a 3rd level spell for me (Arcane) so isn't the save level as the others. I also like it for the duration (Perm until dismissed).