FatR |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Way of the Wicked isn't a paizo adventure path, but in my opinion it is the most masterfully written adventure path ever written.
WotW has its problems.
It is places more demands on players. You cannot run it for a party that expects to be railroaded, you cannot run it for a party with murderhobo tendencies, and it has a very specific premise that requires player buy-in or else it doesn't work (PCs must lack conscience or be driven by revenge, but remain reasonably loyal to each other, and willing to work for a boss who doesn't take "no" for an answer until it is the plot time to get their Sith promotion).
Of course, it also demands clearly establishing comfort zones for the GM and the players. During its course PCs, besides various off-screen consequences of the invasion and the plague they cause, are straight-up commanded to massacre a town, and it is beneficial for them to order a couple more of similar acts; employing torture is encouraged. Well and while murdering a ton of people guilty only of getting in their way, is little different from the standard adventuring fare, here PCs are the sorts of people who might just go an extra mile to make their enemies suffer. The author discusses this problem, to his credit.
At some points it is possible to pretty much fail the whole plot without dying. The end of the first adventure comes to mind.
Extensive adaptations for specific player groups are needed more in WotW more than usual.
And it still disregards certain basic properties of DnD. Like, a part of Part 3's premise doesn't seem to take into account that most of the angels that the targer of your attack is filled with can bloody teleport, therefore hunting for runaways and stragglers is entirely pointless and the enemy relief force should invariably be expected as soon as the road is physically passable. Early parts also retroactively get a bit silly after you see what all the overleveled enemies from the later parts, this is perhaps more grievous than usual in WotW than in most adventure paths, which often feature the endgame baddies only just making their reappearance in the world after long dormancy or whatever.
I'd hesitate to call WotW the best adventure path ever.
Brother Fen |
Age of Worms, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Wrath of the Righteous.
Here's the thing with Wrath of the Righteous - some folks [like me] will love mythic rules and others will cry about "balancing" and their unhappiness with the rules. I think Mythic Adventures and Wrath of the Righteous took guts and balls to produce ... Jason Bulmahn & Paizo took a serious creative chance and thought outside the box. Kudos for that!
How many of those that decry the system make equally bold creative efforts in their professional lives?!
According to some, the game has been broken since 1973 so complaints about Mythic are to be expected.
I love having the option because despite my thirty plus years of playing, I've never had a character advance to epic level play naturally.
xeose4 |
Wrath of the Righteous is, hands down, my favorite AP by far (either played, DM'd, or simply read through). DMing the NPCs in that game was one of the funnest experiences I'd ever had. It was a real joy to have the party not be the focus of every single interaction and instead just show them that the world they're in has a lot of depth that doesn't include them. The railroading that people complain about imo was perfect because it brought together a bunch of characters from some disparate backgrounds in a smooth and really organic way. The fact that the NPCs stay with the party and continue to evolve was just icing on the cake.
I am currently in the middle of the The Jade Regent for a tabletop group, and I have to say that I do not care for DMing this one at all. It feels like a constant downgrade every time I switch back. It just doesn't feel like there's much for me, as the DM, to do, other than just run the encounters.
Mercurion |
Best Tier
Age of Worms
Skull and Shackles (and I didn't expect to like a pirate themed AP)
Rise of the Rune Lords -- primarily because Burnt Offerings is amazingly good
Good Tier
Savage Tide
Jade Regent -- as long as you ignore the broken caravan rules
Kingmaker -- loved the sandbox approach, needs rough edges smoothed off. See Lord Snow's post on suggested improvements
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Bad Tier
Shattered Star -- some very good dungeons, but the overall plot was horribly disconnected and railroad
Legacy of Fire
Second Darkness
Not Interested
Mummy's Mask -- read through entire thing, setting not my cup of tea
Iron Gods -- after being a loyal subscriber since issue #29 of Dungeon, this finally made me suspend my subscription after reading through first adventure. YMMV if you love robots
Adjule |
I haven't done many APs, but of the few I did do, Curse of the Crimson Throne was the best one.
CotCT was a fun AP, even if we only got to the point with the plague (which I think is book 3) before the DM decided to vanish.
Of the others, I didn't enjoy them.
Second Darkness started out good, but then it became Drow this, Drow that, Drow EVERYWHERE! I absolutely HATE drow. We got to book 4 before we called it.
I tried to DM Kingmaker, but thanks to it being over virtual tabletop, I came to the realization that one of the players had a map of the area open and knew where everything was located. That put a halt to that game.
I tried to DM Carrion Crown, but I am not a fan of horror as a whole, and the players weren't the best when it came to playing a published adventure. It ended before we finished the prison dungeon. I just couldn't do it anymore.
I played and finished Wrath of the Righteous. The premise of the AP was pretty cool, and made for a good possibility for heroic characters (which I vastly prefer). My experience with it was absolutely terrible, turned out to be the worst year with me not looking forward to Friday afternoons (I should have quit after the 2nd month but I kept with it because I liked the DM). Killing everything in 3 or less rounds (including the demon lords) was not fun, and there was absolutely ZERO roleplaying done despite me and the DM trying to insert some into it, but the other 3 players were all about the powergaming BIG NUMBERS!!! which killed my joy.
The moral of the story: the group makes the AP. WotR had huge potential for me, but the group ruined it (and ultimately turned me off of Pathfinder as that was the type of player that I always ended up with). The mythic portion was a detrimient to me, because of the type of player that was in the game. I rolled my eyes at all the threads decrying Mythic, but then I understood where they were coming from. I like Pathfinder, but I hate the players (there are some good players out there, but I haven't found them, except for 1 group).
TL;DR: Crimson Throne had the best experience for me.
Adjule |
Take heart Adjule,
we aren't all Math manipulating* a@###~&s:-)*math is awesome, unless thats all you see:-)
I know there are some out there that aren't "Math manipulating* a@###~&s", as you put it. I just wish I could find them. I love Pathfinder, but the players I come across leave a lot to be desired. I guess that's what happens when you just play online.
Maybe one day...
Mackenzie Kavanaugh |
I tried to DM Kingmaker, but thanks to it being over virtual tabletop, I came to the realization that one of the players had a map of the area open and knew where everything was located. That put a halt to that game.
I don't care if players have plenty of knowledge of the campaign I'm running, and I'm actually GMing a Kingmaker campaign right now in which one of the players is the GM of a Kingmaker campaign in which I am a player. However, there's a lot of players out there who don't understand the concept of player knowledge vs character knowledge and exploit the frelling dren out of stuff their character couldn't possibly know, and that does indeed kill the fun and ruin the game. As a player, I might happen to know that ______, but if my character doesn't know that, my character isn't going to act on that, and may actually take actions based on what my character does know that are deleterious and would never be taken given that knowledge. But that describes only about 10-20% of gamers I've ever played with.
Ulfen Death Squad |
Adjule wrote:I tried to DM Kingmaker, but thanks to it being over virtual tabletop, I came to the realization that one of the players had a map of the area open and knew where everything was located. That put a halt to that game.I don't care if players have plenty of knowledge of the campaign I'm running, and I'm actually GMing a Kingmaker campaign right now in which one of the players is the GM of a Kingmaker campaign in which I am a player. However, there's a lot of players out there who don't understand the concept of player knowledge vs character knowledge and exploit the frelling dren out of stuff their character couldn't possibly know, and that does indeed kill the fun and ruin the game. As a player, I might happen to know that ______, but if my character doesn't know that, my character isn't going to act on that, and may actually take actions based on what my character does know that are deleterious and would never be taken given that knowledge. But that describes only about 10-20% of gamers I've ever played with.
I would so have a chat with them if you haven't done so already. As a gm, if a player is making it to where I am unable to have any fun, either they shape up or they are gone. When a gm has to do that much prep work only for some to ruin it, it ruins the fun of GMing. So have a private chat with them and give some sort of warning on what you level you feel appropriate. Also try to educate on the differences between the two.
Mackenzie Kavanaugh |
I would so have a chat with them if you haven't done so already. As a gm, if a player is making it to where I am unable to have any fun, either they shape up or they are gone. When a gm has to do that much prep work only for some to ruin it, it ruins the fun of GMing. So have a private chat with them and give some sort of warning on what you level you feel appropriate. Also try to educate on the differences between the two.
Oh, we chat regularly about stuff and even bounce ideas off each other. I keep some stuff secret so as not to spoil things which I feel will be more fun as surprises, but those are things which are my own custom additions to the campaign, and Kingmaker all but begs for the GM to add custom stuff.
J-Bone |
I've run and played in only a few APs so far so that will limit my experience. On top of which only Serpent Skull was run face to face.
Kingmaker - Absolutely the best! I loved the setting, story, openness of the world and character by in to a set place. Took a lot of investment from one player for the kingdom building but that went well as a one on one game.
Serpent Skull - I loved it for the first 4 books, then it dramatically switches gears which proved too jarring for me and the PCs.
Shattered Star - This is a very linear/railroady AP but went really good as I had players who were awesome at creating their own RP. All I had to do was get out of their way. But it has some interesting encounters and the last book was really good.
Jade Regent - This proved to be a slog. The encounters were really underwhelming and had IMO very little to really immerse the PCs in the exotic locale of Tian Xia.
Fletch |
I'm honestly surprised at all the love for Skull & Shackles, but I'll defer to actual play experience over my very disappointed half-read (I cancelled after vol 3).
Savage Tide remains my all-time favorite Paizo AP mostly for the way it incorporates so many different styles of adventures into a party's career (dungeons, sea travel, wilderness exploration, city-building, planar travel, etc. etc.) Pathfinder APs since then mostly stick to a single theme. A justifiable choice, but still kind of a narrow path compared to Savage Tide.
If I had to pick a current Pathfinder AP to be my top pick, I'd probably go with Kingmaker because I'm a sucker for a good hexploration adventure which also has a good through storyline, and the addition of kingdom building and mass combat just makes this one stand out.
KutuluKultist |
Age of Worms AP....................B+
[has it's low points but a great theme, great villains and one of the best first adventure dungeons I know)
.
Rise of the Runelords..............B
[really cool ideas: rune giants, the new goblins, the ogres...]
Second Darkness....................C-
[really cool first adventure, decent book two and then there is that pointless plot twist and every goes south from there]
Legacy of Fire.........................A-
[cool theme, cool twists and a very fitting design]
Kingmaker.............................D
[suffers from the kingdom building rules, the 15 minute adventuring day and a general lack of plot integration]
Serpent's Skull.......................F+
[great first adventure followed by 4 books of the same thing again and again and a boring finale. it makes two cardinal mistakes: in an exploration and discovery adventure there is practically nothing to discover but combat ocassions and to add insult to injury, all of the important discovering and investigating that could have been done by the player characters - instead of clearing three and a half cities block by block - was presented already done by an NPC]
Jade Regent...........................B-
[a very weak first adventure but some good ones along the way, sadly, yet another non-functioning sub system]
Skull & Shackles.....................C-
[well, pirates. nothing seems to stand out as particularly good, but the sandbox parts are better than in Kingmaker]
Shattered Star.......................D
[If only the dungeons in the endless sequence of dungeon crawls were really interesting...]
Reign of Winter......................A-
[I like almost everything about this one, the theme, the villains, the hut, the visual design,... only the Triaxian part seemed uninspired to me]
Wrath of the Righteous............D
[The plot and most of the adventures are easly B, but the mythic rules are just so horrible. challenge wise, this path is a joke]
Iron Gods..............................A
[So far. Currently playing book three]
-
Zeitgeist..............................A+
[The best adventure path of them all is not from Paizo. This one does everything right and almost nothing wrong.]
General statement: I like the off-kilter stuff because Golarion is already an everything but the kitchen sink patchwork world with no common theme and very little integration between regions and the DnD/Pathfinder rule set is so unrealistic and over the top that I really do feel that anything goes.
captain yesterday |
Hey! This looks like a fun place!
gets rid of cobwebs, stabs Shelob, starts rounding up the Kobolds.
Seems like with book six of Strange Aeons starting to infest shipping routes routes the world over. This might be a good time to look back, and laugh at our clothes.
A lot has been added, times have changed, [Insert favorite time cliche here].
Douglas Muir 406 |
Well, since we're in necro mode, I will respond to this two year old post!
WotW has its problems.
Yes it does. I was editor for the last four volumes -- I think I'm credited on 3 through 6 IMS -- and Gary McBride and I went over some of these exact issues. On most he talked me around, with one or two notable exceptions.
It is places more demands on players. You cannot run it for a party that expects to be railroaded, you cannot run it for a party with murderhobo tendencies, and it has a very specific premise that requires player buy-in or else it doesn't work (PCs must lack conscience or be driven by revenge, but remain reasonably loyal to each other, and willing to work for a boss who doesn't take "no" for an answer until it is the plot time to get their Sith promotion).
I would argue that most of these are features, not bugs. In an evil campaign, you need buffers against PvP, and then more buffers against players just going random LOOK AT ME I AM EVIL murderhobo. (Not all players want to do that, of course, but IME it only takes one.) I've run WotW three times, twice FtF and once PbP, and I think the setup makes a lot of sense. Designing an evil campaign is harder than it looks!
At some points it is possible to pretty much fail the whole plot without dying. The end of the first adventure comes to mind.
Fail, and under the AP as written the Cardinal hunts you down and kills you horribly. In WotW, you're on notice from first level on: Failure Is Death. Personally I like the raw, brutal do-or-die atmosphere this adds. It feels different from the usual "well, we failed... I guess someone else will have to save the village from the goblins... or even if they don't, meh, one village." Normally you don't get players really worried about the consequence of failure until they're 15th level and confronting the Runelord or the core of the Worldwound or whatever.
Extensive adaptations for specific player groups are needed more in WotW more than usual.
True; fair point.
And it still disregards certain basic properties of DnD. Like, a part of Part 3's premise doesn't seem to take into account that most of the angels that the targer of your attack is filled with can bloody teleport, therefore hunting for runaways and stragglers is entirely pointless and the enemy relief force should invariably be expected as soon as the road is physically passable.
This is one of the exceptions I mentioned above. I went back and forth with Gary on this. He did add a number of justifications for why particular angels wouldn't just blink away, but in the end I wasn't really convinced, and clearly I'm not alone.
That said, I won't criticize him too hard for failing to solve a problem that's hardwired into the system. There kinda had to be at least one angel-themed module in the AP. I mean, if you're capital-E Evil, you're going to have to go up against angels at some point. He wisely chose to get most of the angel stuff out of the way as early as possible in the AP. But since almost every angel with more than 6 HD has teleport (and so do most non-angel good outsiders), he was really fighting the system here.
Early parts also retroactively get a bit silly after you see what all the overleveled enemies from the later parts, this is perhaps more grievous than usual in WotW than in most adventure paths, which often feature the endgame baddies only just making their reappearance in the world after long dormancy or whatever.
This came up, but note that the PCs aren't on anyone's radar until, at the earliest, Book Three. And you can come up with plausible reasons why any single BBGG is staying out of action -- the copper dragon is having fun with planar travel and his wives, the princess is a semi-recluse, and so forth. Whether it's plausible that they *all* are is a separate question, but I think Gary made the good faith effort.
I'd hesitate to call WotW the best adventure path ever.
Obviously I am biased here! That said, a couple of points.
1) Do keep in mind that Gary was writing the first evil AP ever. And he didn't have a whole development team behind him... he wrote all seven adventures almost entirely by himself. (Jason Buhlman gets co-credit on a couple of the modules, but IMS Jason was mostly writing backmatter, not adventure.) He had to work a lot of this stuff out for himself, from scratch. I think on the whole he really excelled, but it was no small task. The game allows an evil campaign, yes, but really isn't set up to make writing one easy. I had a close-up view of how the sausage was made.
Say what you like about Gary's actions / inaction in the last couple of years, but he sweated blood over WotW, and I can't really think of anyone who would have done a better job on WotW.
2) Deciding who's "best" is a mug's game. But I think you can make a strong case for WotW as the single most ambitious AP to date. Not only is it an evil path, but it
-- has the PCs running a "reverse dungeon" for most of a module
-- not only lets PCs become vampires or liches, but positively encourages it
-- ends with the PCs as Evil Overlords, and lets them indulge themselves in sandbox mode running a kingdom for an entire module; and,
-- adds a seventh bonus module, MinionQuest, which is very well done and funny as hell.
Is it perfect? No. Is it for everyone? Surely not. But it's crazy damn ambitious, and I think it succeeds really well. Again, I had a hand in it, so I'm not a neutral observer, but... yeah, I think it's pretty good.
Doug M.
Kileanna |
I'm GMing WotW right now and we are in the second book.
My view on it is that it works well with advanced players. It has a lot of decissions to take, a lot of roleplaying, and a lot of situations that demand subtlety.
My players are loving it. They have loved each single NPC I've presented and they are fully implicated on getting things to work.
Our antipaladin hates all the Tears of Achlys stuff and has started to think Cardinal Thorn is incompetent and has started to strike deals with everyone he thinks that can be useful in expectation of a way to go against him and take his place. He remains loyal... for now.
I love how all the plot enforces the players to be not only evil but manipulative and plotting.
I'm enjoying it a lot and even though I aggree itdoesn't suit all kind of players I wouldn't change a thing about it (even though I'm making some important changes to fit the decissions of my players).
Kileanna |
I want to put my hands on it. I might purchase it, as I've received very good critics about it, but I don't still have it.
So bad a disruptive player killed Grumblejack in the first book. All my other players loved him. I'm allowing my players to roleplay the minions in the dungeon and they are having so much fun with the boggards.
Davia D |
Iron Gods is pretty great start to finish.
Wrath, I love the plot and especially the NPCs, but I have to admit the challenge level needs work. Even so, one of the best to simply read through!
Savage Tide is a classic, starts off with a strong part and it expands to the most epic end of any I've seen- suitable as the finale of Dungeon Magazon.
Hell's Rebels was very fun and makes me care about the city. Part 4 actually makes a really good finale in itself, if one wanted to stop there (though 5-6 aren't bad either! They almost feel like a sequel/what normally falls in 'continuing the campaign' for other paths).
Reign of Winter is pretty good, but part 5 disappointed me (you visit earth and mostly deal with a military camp). Part 4 was great, I love other-planar stuff.
---
Also, I notice some people are talking 'WotW' and 'evil AP' together. I assume there's been either acronym mixup and you're thinking of Hell's Vengeance? Or some third-party AP called WotW? Because Wrath of the Righteous is pretty opposite to an evil AP!
Woran |
Also, I notice some people are talking 'WotW' and 'evil AP' together. I assume there's been either acronym mixup and you're thinking of Hell's Vengeance? Or some third-party AP called WotW? Because Wrath of the Righteous is pretty opposite to an evil AP!
Way of the Wicked is a third party AP where you play evil.
Davia D |
Davia D wrote:Way of the Wicked is a third party AP where you play evil.
Also, I notice some people are talking 'WotW' and 'evil AP' together. I assume there's been either acronym mixup and you're thinking of Hell's Vengeance? Or some third-party AP called WotW? Because Wrath of the Righteous is pretty opposite to an evil AP!
Ahh, thanks :)
Kileanna |
Well, WotW is very different, which can be either a good or a bad thing.
I can see a lot of things that can make WotW run badly with some kinds of GMs or groups.
It depends a lot on the players taking decissions and also requires subtilety so it's not for everybody. It also focuses a lot on minions, not for everybody again.
My players are enjoying so far and so do I.
About Reign of Winter, Rasputin was my favorite official part. I loved how well done it was and I really liked Rasputin himself. I loved Artrosa too, but it was because.my GM changed a lot of stuff to make it more personal so I don't think it counts. I haven't played the last one but my GM hated it so much that he's GMing an alternative ending written by his own taking some stuff from the original. When he's done GMing I'll take a look to the book and will be able to share my opinion.
Davia D |
About Reign of Winter, Rasputin was my favorite official part. I loved how well done it was and I really liked Rasputin himself. I loved Artrosa too, but it was because.my GM changed a lot of stuff to make it more personal so I don't think it counts. I haven't played the last one but my GM hated it so much that he's GMing an alternative ending written by his own taking some stuff from the original. When he's done GMing I'll take a look to the book and will be able to share my opinion.
I liked Rasputin himself, there just wasn't too much to do in Russia other than go to confront him.
Kileanna |
Yes, the fact that you only get to visit Akuvskaya can be a bit dissapointing, but all the things with the cossacks, the Romanov, Rasputin, etc. made me really feel it.
Even though this part is kinda sandboxy the whole AP is a huge railroad, so it lacks the freedom to really explore the places that you visit. To me it's one of its biggest flaws.
My GM has worked hard on it and has destroyed the railroads but the base AP is too railroady.
Kileanna |
I love Rasputin Must Die. It's one of the best adventures done by Paizo ever, with a premise so silly that it works. Also, Dusha Koza. Goat, please.
Dusha Koza almost killed our wizard with the fear effect. He ran away and ended being trapped by two tanks.
Rasputin also has the Trench Mists, who are really terrifying. A trench mist during the final fight killed our wizard. It made what Dusha Koza couldn't.Kileanna |
The boogeymen casted two Phantasmal Killers and our Fighter and my Witch rolled nothing better than a 5 in the dice for both saves.
The Animate Dreams also were a bit problematic, as our Confused Ranger almost killed two of us.
Rasputin himself wasn't such a big deal, but the nosferatu trio was terrible!
Zelgadas Greyward |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is it perfect? No. Is it for everyone? Surely not. But it's crazy damn ambitious, and I think it succeeds really well. Again, I had a hand in it, so I'm not a neutral observer, but... yeah, I think it's pretty good.
Doug M.
Sold. Or, well, added to my wishlist awaiting a sale on DriveThru.
Zelgadas Greyward |
I love Rasputin Must Die. It's one of the best adventures done by Paizo ever, with a premise so silly that it works. Also, Dusha Koza. Goat, please.
Dusha Koza almost killed our wizard with the fear effect. He ran away and ended being trapped by two tanks.
Rasputin also has the Trench Mists, who are really terrifying. A trench mist during the final fight killed our wizard. It made what Dusha Koza couldn't.
I started running Reign of Winter for my group. They got through the portal... and then scheduling issues have prevented us from running again for months. All your awesome tales of later adventures make me jealous. **sigh**
Anyway, carry on - I'll just be sitting here, living vicariously through you.
Dragonchess Player |
Yes, the fact that you only get to visit Akuvskaya can be a bit dissapointing, but all the things with the cossacks, the Romanov, Rasputin, etc. made me really feel it.
Even though this part is kinda sandboxy the whole AP is a huge railroad, so it lacks the freedom to really explore the places that you visit. To me it's one of its biggest flaws.
My GM has worked hard on it and has destroyed the railroads but the base AP is too railroady.
Considering that Reign of Winter is one big "fetch quest" on a (soft) time limit, going full-on sandbox isn't really appropriate.
That said, there were a lot of sandbox elements at each location (not just Russia in Rasputin Must Die!).
Zelgadas Greyward |
On the actual original thread topic, I would have to say that one of my favorite adventure paths is Curse of the Crimson Throne.
A lot of that came down to how much fun I had playing the NPCs. Laori Vaus was a ton of fun to play, and apparently my players liked her too because the second half of the game had half the party convert to the worship of Zon-Kuthon, and one of the party members romanced Laroi, ending up in a long term committed relationship with her.
Oh, and speaking of unexpected...
In return for saving her life, Ileosa allowed the party to build a temple to Zon Kuthon in Korvosa.
Eliandra Giltessan |
Top Three Today:
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Hell's Rebels
Iron Gods
I think these are my top 3 as well, though not necessarily in that order.
Reading through Hell's Rebels, I loooooved it, and after running through it, I still like it. But after running A Song of Silver in 2-3 hour slots every other week, I was heartily sick of the Temple of Asmodeus by the time the group finally won.
Haladir |
I haven't played all of them, but based on reading them...
Most Interested to Run
Rise of the Runelords (Currently running in PbP)
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Strange Aeons
Hell's Rebels
Very Interested to Run
Reign of Winter
Iron Gods
Skull & Shackles
Somewhat Interested to Run
Second Darkness
Serpent's Skull
Carrion Crown
Wrath of the Righteous
Giantslayer
Shattered Star
Not Interested to Run
Legacy of Fire
Jade Regent
Hells Vengeance
Don't Own/Have Not Read (no opinion)
Council of Thieves
Kingmaker
Zelgadas Greyward |
Most Interested to Run
Rise of the Runelords (Currently running in PbP)
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Strange Aeons
Hell's Rebels
Rise of the Runelords? Huh. I actually found that one fairly dull after the second adventure (the murder mystery spiced it up for me). I really only ran it because of the updated rerelease and because I had a group that was specifically looking for something "a little dull" after a particularly emotional game. It was a nice palate cleanser, but I don't think the word "excitement" really ever entered in to it.
I, meanwhile, would love to get my hands on a full set of Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance. I want to read over those two so badly (but can't currently afford to drop the money on the pdfs). I keep hoping they'll go on sale.
Haladir |
Out of curiosity, why don't you own Kingmaker and Council of Thieves.
Because I haven't bought them yet.
When I took the reins of my D&D 3.5 group in 2011, we all made the decision that we would transition to PFRPG, as the game system was still in active development. We had just finished a major urban campaign, and were all looking for a "classic" adventure, and I heard from several sources that the Rise of the Runelords AP was really good.
So, I bought Burnt Offerings, loved it, and later bought the rest of them.
I quickly became impressed with Paizo's product quality, so I started subscribing to the AP line in 2012 with The Wormwood Mutiny (Skull & Shackles #1). I have been subscribing to the AP line ever since.
Since that time, I've been slowly filling out my AP collection, based on interest (Crimson Throne and Carrion Crown) and on finding deals that were too good to pass up (Second Darkness, Serpent's Skull). Most of them I've bought piecemeal, but I did buy a few as 6-volume sets on the aftermarket at an attractive price.
Just yesterday, I sent a PayPal to someone on the Internet who was offering Kingmaker for a very good price. Obviously, I haven't received it yet.
And, I've picked up three volumes of Council of Thieves, although not in order. I'm waiting to find a copy of Bastards of Erebus that's under $30 in the aftermarket... it seems to be listing at $75 at the moment.
The collector in my is interested in the physical books right now, and that's where I'm focusing my effort. Honestly, I find reading adventures much easier if I have a hardcopy in my hands. I plan to go back and buy the PDFs if I ever decide to run an AP that I don't yet have the PDFs of.
Also, even though I haven't run them straight, I have cannibalized chunks of several AP volumes in various home-games. Specifically, I ran a long side-quest in my original Runelords game that sent the PCs to Kaer Maga... and I used some major chunks of The Asylum Stone. In my more-recent "Champions of Old Korvosa" campaign, I used big chunks of Edge of Anarchy, Seven Days to the Grave, Shards of Sin, Shadow in the Sky, and The Half-Dead City... even if I changed the flavor of a particular encounter or simply used a map.
Haladir |
Haladir wrote:Rise of the Runelords? Huh. I actually found that one fairly dull after the second adventure (the murder mystery spiced it up for me). I really only ran it because of the updated rerelease and because I had a group that was specifically looking for something "a little dull" after a particularly emotional game. It was a nice palate cleanser, but I don't think the word "excitement" really ever entered in to it.
Most Interested to Run
Rise of the Runelords (Currently running in PbP)
I really do love Rise of the Runelords: It's a great mix of all of the classic D&D tropes, all in one AP. I will admit that the first half is stronger than the second. Burnt Offerings is one of the best all-around adventures I've come across, and The Skinsaw Murders is frighteningly excellent, as well. Hook Mountain Massacre has its strong points, although the high point of that is the Graul Farm.
J-Bone |
When I look back on the ones I've played and run, I think the most satisfying of them all was running Kingmaker. It was a pure delight and in many parts so different than anything else.
I'm having a lot of fun running Second Darkness and playing in Rise of the Runelords but Kingmaker is my all time fav. Jade Regent is my least favorite (though the final 2.5 books were great).
magnuskn |
Well, I can give a run-down which AP's I actually played and add the ones I read up upon heavily.
Best:
Hell's Rebels - Not actually GM'ed, but I already did extensive prep time and am psyched to GM it one day. A city adventure with extensive roleplaying opportunities, interesting NPC's and an interesting antagonist, as well as ample leeway for the players to do their own stuff (in the constraints of the AP story). I have no idea why Paizo apparently counts it as an "experimental AP" (as noted in the foreword of the first volume of Ironfang Invasion), since it is just a better version of one of their best AP's, Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Curse of the Crimson Throne - GM'ed to conclusion. Another city AP, it also has ample roleplaying opportunities and a good amount of room for the PC's to build their own stories. It makes the mistake of leaving the city for a large stretch of the AP (1/3 to be exact), which Hell's Rebels did not.
Jade Regent - GM'ed to conclusion. A travel AP which gives you a large stable of NPC's to play around with and a caravan to manage. Also the first AP to feature Tian Xia and Minkai. Has a few flaws (which AP doesn`t?), foremost module four, where you spend two thirds of the volume in a much too large dungeon. Suffers very much in the later modules from underwritten enemies. For example, I ran this AP twice and even with the final villain(s) being buffed way above and beyond what the AP tells you to, it was over in one round. Both times.
Okay:
Rise of the Runelords - GM'ed to conclusion, before that also played as a PC. A solid classic adventure path. Spends a bit too much time in dungeons in the later modules and becomes too focused on fighting.
Carrion Crown - GM'ed to conclusion. A solid mix of investigation and fighting, with horror elements. Sadly, in the final module it abandons the investigation aspect completely and becomes a huge fighting slog until the final battle. Brandon Hodge took that criticism to heart, however, and delived Rasputin Must Die!, the best module Paizo has ever published. :)
Shattered Star - Read and already did extensive prep time. Extremely heavy on dungeons, however they all include diplomacy and interesting NPC's. Solid modules throughout, with none which stand out as having obviously worse quality than the others.
Reign of Winter - Currently GM'ing this one. Starts out very strong, but has two slump modules (three and, sadly, six), which are not very interesting. Module five is Rasputin Must Die!, however. I'm planning on shortening module six, because it looks just terrible.
Baaaaaaaaaaad:
Wrath of the Righteous - Conceptually, the AP is decent fare. Shining heroes stand against the demonic hordes. In execution, however, the NPC's which you are furnished with are mostly interchangeable and the mythic rules will screw up the entire campaign, because they are deeply, deeply broken (in favor of the player characters). There are solutions offered on the WotR sub-forum and if you use those, the AP surely becomes playable, if unremarkable. If you think that you will have fun GM'ing this under vanilla mythic rules, however.... think again.
One of the things I am most worried about in terms of Pathfinder (aside from PFv2 never coming because of PF grognards ^^) is that when it comes time for Sorshen to rise (hinted at in the CotCT hardcover), James will ignore the feedback from WotR and not build the mythic villains in that campaign so that they cannot be one-shotted by any decently build player character.
Kileanna |
About Reign of Winter, magnuskn:
My GM added some flavor with book 3 that made it be outstanding, so I enjoyed it a lot but I have to aggree the basic material was weak.
He skipped the 6th book completely. It was too straightforward and dull, according to him (now he has ended GMing I'm reading it and coming after Rasputin it makes it look even worse). He gave us an alternate story and only kept the last encounters before Elvanna and Elvanna herself.
I cannot help with sharing with you the changes he did because it was personal to our characters and setting so I don't think it would be useful to you, but maybe you could do a similar thing, because I aggree that the last book is weak.
magnuskn |
About Reign of Winter, magnuskn:
My GM added some flavor with book 3 that made it be outstanding, so I enjoyed it a lot but I have to aggree the basic material was weak.
He skipped the 6th book completely. It was too straightforward and dull, according to him (now he has ended GMing I'm reading it and coming after Rasputin it makes it look even worse). He gave us an alternate story and only kept the last encounters before Elvanna and Elvanna herself.
I cannot help with sharing with you the changes he did because it was personal to our characters and setting so I don't think it would be useful to you, but maybe you could do a similar thing, because I aggree that the last book is weak.
Thanks, I will have to look into that. Coming after the excellent prior module, ending on such a weak note would be a sad end to an otherwise solid campaign.