Brawler's Flurry Offhand Penalty

[Valdimarian]

So I've looked around a bit and nobody's asked this question yet, at least not that I can tell.

What is the penalty for using a 1h (or 2h) weapon with Brawler's Flurry? I can see it going one of two ways:
1) It's a 1h weapon, and you're using it for the 'offhand' attacks portion of a Two-Weapon Fighting attack, therefore you suffer -4 to hit with all attacks.
2) Since all attacks are made with one weapon you don't have an 'off-hand' weapon, therefor you only suffer as though using Unarmed (Light) weapons.

I think the implication is that it's more like #2, since that's how Monk's Flurry of Blows works, but Flurry of Blows uses it's own rules and Brawler's Flurry borrows from Two Weapon Fighting.

[LoneKnave]

The penalty for flurry is always -2, regardless of the weapon used (assuming you can use the weapon to begin with, of course).

[Imbicatus]

If it is a weapon that can bused in a Brawler's Flurry (Monk or Close weapon groups) the penalties are treated as if using Two Weapon Fighting with a light weapon, regardless of the actual weapon used.

[NikolaiJuno]

Does Brawler's Flurry count as Flurry of Blows for the proposes of feat prereqs?

[Valdimarian]

@LoneKnave & @Imbicatus, Do either of you have an official ruling for that? I know it spells out the strength bonus as your full strength bonus, regardless of if it's off-hand or two-handed, but there's no specification for the To-hit penalty.

@NokolaiJuno: No, they're two separate powers, which is why the Style feats specify Brawler's Flurry OR Flurry of Blows.

[Charon's Little Helper]

Valdimarian wrote:

@LoneKnave & @Imbicatus, Do either of you have an official ruling for that? I know it spells out the strength bonus as your full strength bonus, regardless of if it's off-hand or two-handed, but there's no specification for the To-hit penalty.

It's because the extra penalties for TWF when using a not light weapon are only for the offhand. With the brawler's flurry, there is no offhand weapon to be something other than light.

[Valdimarian]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

It's because the extra penalties for TWF when using a not light weapon are only for the offhand. With the brawler's flurry, there is no offhand weapon to be something other than light.

That's my thinking too, I just wanted it to be made official somewhere. (Or at least to help anyone else with this line of thinking later)

[Victor Zajic]

Brawler flurry does seem to be missing that language, so if you are flurrying with a temple sword in each hand, your penalties increase.

[Charon's Little Helper]

Victor Zajic wrote:

Brawler flurry does seem to be missing that language, so if you are flurrying with a temple sword in each hand, your penalties increase.

Theoretically - but why would you? All you're doing is wasting gold on an extra sword and using up your off-hand. (For a brawler you should always use a shield. While it's debatable whether or not they're proficient - worst case they can use a darkwood shield at no ACP.)

[lemeres]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Victor Zajic wrote:

Brawler flurry does seem to be missing that language, so if you are flurrying with a temple sword in each hand, your penalties increase.

Theoretically - but why would you? All you're doing is wasting gold on an extra sword and using up your off-hand. (For a brawler you should always use a shield. While it's debatable whether or not they're proficient - worst case they can use a darkwood shield at no ACP.)

And you are also lowering your damage. With flurry of blows and brawler's flurry, you still get 2 handed power attack damage if you use your weapon 2 handed.

[Ventnor]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Victor Zajic wrote:

Brawler flurry does seem to be missing that language, so if you are flurrying with a temple sword in each hand, your penalties increase.

Theoretically - but why would you? All you're doing is wasting gold on an extra sword and using up your off-hand. (For a brawler you should always use a shield. While it's debatable whether or not they're proficient - worst case they can use a darkwood shield at no ACP.)

Brawlers don't get their in-class AC bonus if they use a shield. And that bonus applies to Touch AC, which is pretty good.