Sooooo… My brother's starting a new campaign, and I get to be one of the 4 players (yay!). One player says they want to build a melee char, one wants to build a ranged char, and one wants to build a Skald, so I figure I'll make an Oracle that can do some healing. Everything's great so far. We decide on 4d6—drop the lowest and start rolling stats… The melee player gets 16, 12, 12, 12, 11, 9, no problem. The Skald gets 16, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10, no problem. The ranged player gets 14, 13, 13, 12, 11, 11. Then I roll 16, 16, 16, 15, 13 and my last set of rolls is a 1-2-3-4. To make it interesting, I decide to drop the 4 instead of the 1, and put the resulting 6 in Constitution. Our backstories are going great, and it seems everyone likes the idea of me being a glass cannon destined for great things, if I can only survive to see the day (6hp at the moment).
Here's the issue: I'm worried that with these stats, if I'm not careful I'll become too powerful, and even though everyone's on board at the moment, the other players may be annoyed if I hog the limelight too much. On the other hand, I don't want to be a burden. So far, I'm a Halfling Oracle of Time, working with the idea of multi-classing like so: 1 level of Cleric, 1 level of Feral Hunter, 1 level of Sacred Fist Warpriest, then back to Oracle full-time. The character should have a lot of versatility without stepping on anyone's toes. The Feral Hunter level is for Druid spells and the variable Animal Focus I'll be able to apply to myself. The Sacred Fist Warpriest is for the AC bonus, Flurry of Blows (for hot slinging action), and Blessings. I'll basically always have 1st Level spells and abilities available, but the excessive multi-classing will mean I have much less power in the long run.
Is this a good idea, or am I going about this all wrong? Thanks. =]
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WHAT?! YOU YOUR SCORES?! ARGGGGGG STOP PLAYING WRONGGGGGG
I wouldn't worry too much about scores—those only much matter for the early levels (besides, your scores are barely better than the Skald's, practically speaking). Multiclassing will more than make up for it.
As for going too far, I think you'll be fine. Versatility can be really handy for a party, as long as you're okay with always being a bit behind.
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Honestly, with 6 Con, you're not just nerfing yourself, but also becoming a liability. If you want to restrict yourself, go with a 6 in Str or Dex. It'll keep you from being effective at certain things without having to worry about a fireball killing you. This is especially true considering you want to be the healer. As much as nobody will like being outshone at what they do, nobody is going to have to protect the party healer because he blows over in a strong breeze.
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Not really. MOST attributes only affect you slightly but not so much as you level. A -2 HP per level is going to affect the OP pretty hard over the course of the game. N. Jolly's right. OP shot himself in the foot enough, no need to shoot the other one.
And since they roll stats, they probably roll HP, which means a 3/8 chance of ending up with 1HP/level, and a maximum possible 6. Hard nerf.
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Yeah, I second that. Leave your Con where it is. If your GM thinks you're waffling, tell him the internet told you to do it. Every time I've seen someone deliberately skimp on Con—even by one point—they've suffered early deaths. One of them died in the second encounter!
In fairness, it was the "acid beetle encounter", but still.
EDIT: If GTG is responding to me, keep in mind I was never saying Con wasn't important. I was referring to his high stats, saying he didn't have to worry about being OP.
I was, but I was (and still am) too lazy to quote, and then DT just jumped in there all of a sudden when I wasn't looking.
Honestly, with 6 Con, you're not just nerfing yourself, but also becoming a liability. If you want to restrict yourself, go with a 6 in Str or Dex. It'll keep you from being effective at certain things without having to worry about a fireball killing you. This is especially true considering you want to be the healer. As much as nobody will like being outshone at what they do, nobody is going to have to protect the party healer because he blows over in a strong breeze.
Normally, I'd agree that 6 Con is just a terrible idea, and it was originally suggested in jest, but the Skald immediately pounced on the idea and said we should be twins, and she'd be overly protective of me from our youth. It's rolled into the backstory with my having been mistakenly declared dead and being briefly buried alive, meeting a friendly ghost, and having an affinity for Pharasma. We've both got Kin Bond and she's got Kin Guardian as background traits.
Should I refrain from a couple of the extra classes though? Or perhaps pick a different starting class to get a couple extra hp?
Really? Twins? With one of you being physically frail? Seriously?
Did you not read Dragonlance, or do you just not care that you're the divine Raistlin?
She made the suggestion and I couldn't resist. I honestly don't care whether I die, I just want the RP possibilities. xD
She made the suggestion and I couldn't resist. I honestly don't care whether I die, I just want the RP possibilities. xD
Oh, yeah, I know there's plenty of cool RP opportunities between a frail magical twin and a larger, more physically competent one.
About nine novels' worth, counting the new inbetween-the-original-trilogies trilogy.
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A constitution of 6... God help you if you ever have to fight anything that gives disease.
With regards to worrying about being overpowered; to quote my insurance broker when I wanted to increase my car's coverage against theft:
"Man, don't worry about it. Nobody is going to touch that piece of crap."
What's with the multiclassing? You're planning on fighting with a sling? Why even pick oracle if you're so far behind with spells?
I don't know if I'm missing something, nothing about this build makes sense to me. How would this be in any way overpowered?
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Okay, I'm back.
Stats are not the thing that break characters. They help characters be more powerful, but they don't make them broken. This is an assumption that a lot of people make though. With stats like yours, you can play a lot of different characters, which is really the actual benefit of high stats, as low stats generally make you more determined to play more SAD (single attribute dependent) characters, instead of MAD (multiple attribute dependent) characters.
Now you're playing a spell caster so it seems, and the golden rule of spellcasters is DON'T MULTICLASS! Maybe one level at most, but you gain nothing great from multiclassing. Stay one class, don't leave it, only non casters can jump around because they don't have casting progression to mess up. Casting is the single greatest thing in this game, and never let anyone tell you otherwise.
You're starting with a divine caster though, and are less prone to stealing the spotlight. If you want to make sure you're not stealing it, play support, heal people, make sure you're not solving everyone's problems with magic like you might be tempted to do.
Your stats are fine, it's your class that determines how good you are.
What's with the multiclassing? You're planning on fighting with a sling? Why even pick oracle if you're so far behind with spells?
I don't know if I'm missing something, nothing about this build makes sense to me. How would this be in any way overpowered?
I'm not trying to imply that the setup I've chosen is OP. I'm saying there were things I could have done to make a powerful char. If, for instance, I had dropped the 1 as usual and picked Aasimar as the race, I could have had these stats: 9 Str, 13 Dex, 15 Con, 16 Int, 18 Wis, 18 Cha. Played straight, that's a very powerful character, regardless of which CHA or WIS full caster I went with. Choosing a different race, such as human, would make an equally powerful INT full caster.
The player with the Skald suggested Halfling, and it sounded like fun. The sling is partly for flavor and backstory, and partly because my Dex is so high, it'd seem weird if I didn't have training in a ranged weapon of some kind.
I'm not really asking whether the current multi-class plan is good; I'm asking whether it goes too far in the other direction, which it seems a few of you think it does. I'd drop the Sacred Fist first, then probably Cleric, as the Druid spells and Animal Focus from the Feral Hunter make for some good imagery (grew up in a swampy, frontier area).
EDIT: Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone! I appreciate it. =]
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You must really like the player playing the Skald!
I'm going to echo what everyone else said here: "Don't multiclass" unless you are getting something really fun out of the dip.
I'd have gone with a higher con myself and still let the cute skald try to protect me. It is too easy to get killed in a single critical hit when your con is that low. Do the GM and the other players know that you deliberately dropped the 4 instead of the 1? Did they approve of the move?
If so, have fun with your character. You've given yourself enough of a weakness, you don't have to go further.
Hmm
Sooooo… My brother's starting a new campaign, and I get to be one of the 4 players (yay!). One player says they want to build a melee char, one wants to build a ranged char, and one wants to build a Skald, so I figure I'll make an Oracle that can do some healing. Everything's great so far. We decide on 4d6—drop the lowest and start rolling stats… The melee player gets 16, 12, 12, 12, 11, 9, no problem. The Skald gets 16, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10, no problem. The ranged player gets 14, 13, 13, 12, 11, 11. Then I roll 16, 16, 16, 15, 13 and my last set of rolls is a 1-2-3-4. To make it interesting, I decide to drop the 4 instead of the 1, and put the resulting 6 in Constitution. Our backstories are going great, and it seems everyone likes the idea of me being a glass cannon destined for great things, if I can only survive to see the day (6hp at the moment).
Here's the issue: I'm worried that with these stats, if I'm not careful I'll become too powerful, and even though everyone's on board at the moment, the other players may be annoyed if I hog the limelight too much. On the other hand, I don't want to be a burden. So far, I'm a Halfling Oracle of Time, working with the idea of multi-classing like so: 1 level of Cleric, 1 level of Feral Hunter, 1 level of Sacred Fist Warpriest, then back to Oracle full-time. The character should have a lot of versatility without stepping on anyone's toes. The Feral Hunter level is for Druid spells and the variable Animal Focus I'll be able to apply to myself. The Sacred Fist Warpriest is for the AC bonus, Flurry of Blows (for hot slinging action), and Blessings. I'll basically always have 1st Level spells and abilities available, but the excessive multi-classing will mean I have much less power in the long run.
Is this a good idea, or am I going about this all wrong? Thanks. =]
Um that is a ton of multiclassing for relatively little benefit. I can understand not wanting to over emphasise your really good stats, but since no single number is particularly high (your best equals their best), the best way not to overshadow people is to do ONE thing. Your advantage is how good your spread of scores is. If you do something that is single ability depenedant (like a focused caster) then your stats besides your casting stat become less important. The scald and melee character will both have equal primary stats (whatever they choose).
ANd you realize that the multiclassing you are doing is going to be extremely counter productive right? You are looking at 5th level before you get +1 bab....all of those give 0 bab at 1st level. Flurrying with a sling isnt particularly meaningful if you cant hit anything. Also unless this game is going to stop at like 6th level, multiclassing into hunter for 1st level druid spells and an animal focus bonus isnt worth it. They wont scale. And by 8th level those 1st level spells dont mean very much.
At most i'd recommend multiclassing with just one of those, maybe the sacred fist warpriest. Other then that go oracle. Focus on your spells and occasionally sling some stones. You arent going to come close to overshadowing anyone, assuming ofcourse your 6 con doesnt get you killed in like one session. Seriously, maybe drop the 2 instead of the 4? A 8 con still can be rollplayed as a frail sickly child. You dont need to put it in the physical disability range.
Seriously, you are already nerfed with a 6 con. You'll likely die the first time you are poisoned.
Or hit. Or spelled. Or caught in inclement weather. Or sick. Or...
I think you could still RP "frail twin" with the 6 in strength and a more survivable constitution. With that 6 in strength you will be failing all sorts of strength checks, making you seem weak and needing of protection.
My version of frail twin time oracle:
16, 16, 16, 15, 13, 6
Str: 6
Dex: 13
Con: 15
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 18(assuming humanish stat bonus)
This character wouldn't excel at any physical contest making him appear "frail", but he might still be able to survive till level 2.
Edit(noticed you were going halfling.), so instead:
Str: 11
Dex: 8
Con: 15
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 18
And you now fail at physical combat more evenly than before. You are basically begging someone to grapple you.
I have to agree that between the extremely low Con and the multi-classing, you are potentially going to be a more of a liability than an asset.
Even if you take Magical Knack as a trait, I don't see how you will be able to do your part without expending huge amounts on expendables such as scrolls or wands. Even taking a two level dip can really hurt a spell caster.
Figure out what your character would look like at 6th level, then do it again with no multi-classing and with only a two level dip at most in one other classes. First level spells really don't help that much when the group is 6th level.
Current plan:
I'm still thinking of keeping the 6 in Con, but will take the Toughness Feat at 1st or 3rd level. At 2nd level, I'll take a 1 level dip in Feral Hunter, granting me access to Druid/Ranger spells and Animal Focus, which can be applied to myself indefinitely and swapped out with a swift action. One of the animal aspects is Bear, which grants +2 enhancement bonus to Con. As needed, I can pop that on (assuming I'd normally have Bat, Falcon or Stag on, out of combat) to receive extra survivability. After the 1 level dip in Feral Hunter, I'd go back to Oracle full-time. There'll be some hairy moments at first level, but I think it'll provide a fun challenge.
We do roll hp each level up, but re-roll 1's and 2's. I talked with my brother about it, and he's inclined to also allow me to re-roll 3's, which would mean I'd get at least 2hp per level before Toughness. Obviously that doesn't protect me from diseases, poisons, or a coup de grace, but a little paranoia might be healthy once in a while.
Thanks again for all the suggestions! =]
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Looks good.
Hey, I'd just like to emphasize how character class, and the choices you make, is so much more important than attributes. E.g. A 5th level Commoner with all 18 attributes is no match for a 5th level Fighter or Wizard with a prime attribute of 14 and the rest all 10s.
Here's an example of a highly effective character built on 1 attribute point. Not only can such a character do her job with elan, but most groups would be very happy to have her. Supports the party like a cleric & bard combined, summons better than most Summoners, and her pet can be quite competent in melee. Decisions about which class to play, and whether or not to multiclass, matter much more than attributes.