Big Baddy whose not so big


Advice

Silver Crusade

I'm building a BBEG whose actually a goblin with more intellect than could actually be packed in his head. This is for a future campaign of mine, so no worries on the time constraint.

Here's what I've got so far.

The area my friends are playing was originally controlled by a goblin civilization until the humans came in, invaded, slaughtered the goblins into recession, and built their own civilization out of the ruins. Fast forward a couple hundred years and a certain goblin pieced the history of his people a little to realize just exactly it was that the humans took from them. As a result, he wants revenge, and his peoples' history recovered.

I'm thinking goblin bard, but what do you guys think? Interesting ideas are more than welcome. And no, I don't want a group wiping nemesis. Just someone who will give them a challenge, and make the game fun.


Solo BBEG are not really a challenge, no matter how tough they are. Sprinkle in minions liberally.

Goblin alchemists are fun; if they don't have fire resistance, the damage from a Fire Bomber archetype can add up really fast. Plus, he's literally using his intellect to harm them (in the form of Int-to-damage with splash weapons and bombs).


Also, I hate bards, goblins have lower charisma (an important stat for bards), and bards are exponentially more useful the more people in their party they can inspire at once, so a lone goblin bard is not so much awesome.


Consider making him an Investigator, that has the advantage of Alchemic Extracts but focuses more on his intellect.

Keep him one step ahead of the party at all times.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Give him human minions, who feel guilty about what their ancestors did to his people and are trying to make things right.

Grand Lodge

Summoner.

And Handle Animal for Goblin Dogs.

If this BBEG is a loner, he needs some friends. Even if he has to chain them to the wall or snatch them from other planes.

If this guy is not a loner, alchemist is a better option. Give him his lab assistants (wizards as well as fellow boom artists) and let the bombs fly.

Or necromancer (I suggest cleric flavor, but wizard is an option, as well as oracle). He has been digging around, finding some really old bones and finds the info on what the humans did from the source. Also a good lead in, graveyards being dug up. Lots of skeletons, some zombies, lots of skeletal champions. Maybe pump the goblin with lich template (you did not specify the level of the party)


If he's a leader he needs charisma. If he's a "Chosen One" he's probably a full caster (Oracle). If he's allowed to bend the rules he's a gestalt Oracle-Bard (Bardacle, clings to the hull of a sailing chip) with the skills, HP, and spellcasting to lead his people to greatness.

Flip side: you opened with "more intellect" so that says smartness-caster. Witches can be smart but not carry books around and as TGTG says, alchemist fits the Goblin's racial love of fire, fireworks, and stuff that go boom.

Any sort of "touched by the ancestors" archetype or whatnot fits the concept of returning his people to greatness. Meddling around with undead who are the spirits/ghosts of the fallen works well too. His level is rather important since it decides if he's ruling a regimented army of hobgoblins large enough to take an empire, a green wave of goblins large enough to burn a city or two, or a sizable tribe of goblins big enough to mildly threaten a township.

The current political map and his intended outcome matter too, since complete genocide of a united empire and sacking/replacing a single kingdom with an ambitious goblin kingdom that enslaves the surviving locals are two very different military campaigns.

I'm thinking blood-sacrifice-fueled junk, wood, and cannon golems could make appearances in the military campaign (and by extension, his bases and strongholds). Goblin dies, his soul animates the golem, the golem gets to blow stuff up, the goblin considers this PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE AND AWESOME and volunteers line up out the door.

That's all I got for now.

Liberty's Edge

Definitely needs minions. All main villains do.

And while Investigator is a very solid class, for my money, nothing makes a perfect main villain encounter like a Bard.

Even with the Goblin Cha penalty, he could easily manage a 14 or so as early as 4th level, and with an item to buff him that goes to 16. That's more than sufficient for a buff focused Bard.

Toss on some bow or weapon finesse based Feats and a host of minions and watch the party become very afraid as a host of seriously jacked up Goblins attacks.

There are certainly other options, and Investigator definitely fits the 'smarter than anyone' part of your description in one of the best ways available while being mechanically fun and effective...but it lacks the sheer amazing fun of a group buffing Bard, IMO.

Still, no reason you couldn't have a duo...what level are we talking? The buff-Bard only really needs to be level 7 to lay on the pain and could easily be an assistant to the higher level Investigator main villain. Throw in some minions and you can have a very fun encounter indeed.

A CR 8 Investigator (maybe 8th level with PC treasure or the Advanced Simple Template), CR 6 Bard second-in-command (standard NPC rules), and say, 7 CR 3 minions (Goblin Mutants from the Monster Codex seem ideal for this last), makes a pretty fun CR 11 'final boss' encounter for 7th-8th level PCs. Just for example.

Silver Crusade

My BBEG is focused more towards lore and such. I don't want him being a smartypants. Think more like this guy, just more...goblinized. In essence, he's a totally rational guy and charismatic guy who finds a great injustice done to him and his people. Through earning his championhood amongst them, he also finds more power. That power slowly turns him evil as per the power's influence and not so much his own choice. With that being said, I'm trying to create a character that my friends can sympathize with, yet, hate him for everything that he's done, even though they know he's completely justified.

Oh! I also got an idea after looking through subtypes. What do you guys think of comboing the goblin bard (which I very much want to stick with), and the gibberlings' gibbering ability?

For questions on what that is, click the spoiler below:

Gibbering (Su):

As a free action, a gibbering mouther can emit a cacophony of maddening sound. All creatures other than gibbering mouthers within 60 feet must succeed on a DC 13 Will save or be confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting compulsion insanity effect. A creature that saves cannot be affected by the same mouther's gibbering for 24 hours. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Statistics of this ability will be changed to fit the gibberling.

Grand Lodge

I'd go with the Investigator, it fits with the fact that he discovered what humanity did to his people, and meshes better mechanically. It also fits better if this BBEG is the sort to send out underlings to fulfill various small pieces of his personal agenda.


I like Investigator better than Bard too! Mastermind works well, because stuff like A Quiet Word can make his minions and followers have such a big skill as him when repeating his instructions.


thegreenteagamer wrote:
Also, I hate bards, goblins have lower charisma (an important stat for bards), and bards are exponentially more useful the more people in their party they can inspire at once, so a lone goblin bard is not so much awesome.

Well, unless I am misunderstanding something, NPCs do not actually have to follow point buy rules. Give him 50 CHA if you want (well, there might be balance problems there, just saying though).

But yeah, most bards tend to work better as a multiplier. Archaeologist bards get luck bonuses instead, so you could use that for someone solo. It also give a thematic advantage- he dug up the old goblinoid ruins himself.

Summoners or shamans could have some nefarious and long lived force whispering the tragic tales into his oversized ears though. Summoners are also fairly reliable for 1 character fights due to good old Summon Monster X spells, and they can do decent reach builds (similar to the reach cleric due to standard action summoning SLA)


small, high dex, low in str, and uses int?
make him a ninja!. the high int will keep his skills proped(maybe let him craft some traps) the invsibailty is something the characters will learn to hate. and goblins get +4 racial for sneaking and +4 size for sneaking. he start wit ha +8 not including dex before skills. they won't see it coming OR going.
let him snipe.
let him sneak in, steal stuff and leave insulting notes!
let him come unseen and shave the paladin's beared and paint his horse bright pink.
let him drop boulders on them from hideing places using very long ropes and a litle twig .
make them run around after him in his well trapped teretory before they(invetibly) catch him.
then let him use skills\ninja tricks ether to get out or turn some of them agianst the rest and start over again!
if you do it right .he can dogg after them hit and run only to be met later on.
hell get him his own theme music and play it each time he reapear. they will learn to HATe that music..or luagh at it)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Quote:
With that being said, I'm trying to create a character that my friends can sympathize with, yet, hate him for everything that he's done, even though they know he's completely justified.

Have him not be evil at the start of the campaign, and show him going a bit crazy as he earns the power. He could even start as an ally of the PCs. Then have your PCs go off somewhere for a while and return to find him committing all kinds of atrocities (like the genocide of the human inhabitants of the region). That should make them hate him, I think.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you don't mind third party/psionics, you could always go with a blue goblin: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/blue

You could go with a psion (telepath? Kineticist?) or a cryptic.

Sovereign Court

Well you're wanting a BBEG, and it's a home game and you're building him to be a mastermind. I'd say Summoner or Wizard. First couple of encounters have him summon monsters and use battlefield control and then teleport or cast invisibility and live to fight another day.

Use him to hinder your players and since you're wanting to invest some time in this creation and he fits the bill, you may as well build him to get multiple encounters out of him.

Also, you could run through the Wonderous items for a helmet that may fit his theme. Super intelligent? Maybe it's because he has a "Helm of Telepathy" or maybe some type of helmet or headband associated to fire. Usually BBEG's work best with minions (A general with soldiers, bandit leader with his minions, a necromancer with a small undead army, a wizard or summoner with summoned monsters).


If you wanna make it really ambiguous, allow players to side with him.

This whole "make him commit genocide" throws relatability out the window.

Grand Lodge

Were the goblins ground under the heel of humans in this world or were they able to integrate into the society?

If the were ground into the dirt, i will be harder to have the players meet up with the goblin in a non adversarial position. Racial hatred being strong generation later.

If the goblins were able to integrate, you could have him be the party founder. Giving the party a chance to know him from day 1. As he is becoming evil as the game progresses due to an artifact, the first mission can be the goblin ruins to find the artifact. The benefactor gets to take his pick of the treasure, picks the goblin skull which houses a great goblin chief's spirit. It has trapped itself in it's skull to one day get revenge.

Archeologist bard works for the first level, then start taking levels of summoner. (get those minnions)

Another build idea is to have the skull give him the summoner eidolon. A spirit beast created from the rage and furry of the goblin chief. Treat as an Eidolon of the BBEG's level, or BBEG level +1 if you want it to be more powerful.

Third option, Cleric who shifts to undead lord. Start as a normal cleric to a human god, but after learning what the human gods did to his people he abandons them, and starts to work against them.

Silver Crusade

Think native americans (just not so nature-esq) meet christopher columbus kind of deal. Goblins had their own society, culture, religions, and way of life. Then, humans came in, saw them as evil, and pushed them out.

Goblins receded underground and in caves, hence the gibberling subtype, and now, they want their land back.

The way I'm going to introduce the Small Annoying Evil Dude to the group is through an attack on a garrison. The SAED (as I shall now call him) will lead an attack on the garrison by leading a good sized force against it. In the background, they won't see the SAED. They'll just hear eerie wailing and bashing that seems to give strength to the attacking horde...hmmm...skald sounds interesting now...but yeah, that's what I'm trying to work with.


if its the way you put it, im 100% going to back the goblins as a PC.


Secret Wizard wrote:

If you wanna make it really ambiguous, allow players to side with him.

This whole "make him commit genocide" throws relatability out the window.

Or at least, it is better to ease into genocide.

Start off with a few starving goblin orphans (it helps if they are kicked around by a hole villagers), and move into recapturing ancestral farm land to help rebuild their culture. And then, after they get a nice chunk of resources... then you start beheading farm boys for the crimes of their forefathers.

Totally support a postcolonial perspective on this though. Definitely have more neutral goblins mixed into the fray. Oddly, I usually imagine orcs and lizard folk more when taking this approach (orcs being a broken and displaced people who were driven to the surface by the dwarves in this setting, as well as the troubling 'different skinned other' in many settings, and lizard folk are xenophobic since they have to deal with encroaching humans, which oddly gets a humans vs goblins feel since the lizard folk are just plain being out bred)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Big Baddy whose not so big All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.