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Good day Paizo!
I stumbled today on a PbP recruitment that allowed to pick a +1 template to add to a three level character. So I started my search for something cool, until I've stumbled on the variant half-fiends in Demons Revisited. I was going over them, trying to find something that could make a flavorful build, when a thought dawned upon me:
"F**k optimization, I'm making the Succubus In a Grapple"
So, I came here for advice on a Grapple build: I've seen it can be done in a number of ways, but what is it the more viable? The one I see around the most is the Tetori, but are there other ways? (Mostly, I'd have to ask permission if I could play a non-lawful monk, in that case.)
Here is the Half-Succubus template for reference, a variant of the Half-Fiend template:
Passion (Su): A half-succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion—unwilling victims must be grappled before the half-succubus can use this ability. The passion bestows one negative level. A half-succubus can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Hit Dice. The save DC to remove one of these negative levels is equal to 10 + the half-succubus’s HD + her Cha modifier.
Change Shape (Su): A half-succubus can use this ability to assume the form of any humanoid creature of her size, as if using alter self, once per day.
Alternate Spell-Like Abilities: Replace desecrate with detect thoughts. Replace poison 3/day with charm monster 3/day. Replace contagion with dominate person. Replace unhallow with greater teleport. Replace horrid wilting with ethereal jaunt. Replace destruction with dominate monster.
Abilities: A half-succubus gains Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +2, and Cha +8.
Building Rules
Level: 3
Traits: One
Starting wealth: 3000
Point Buy: 25! (With that and extra stats from the template, a monk seems better and better...)
If your DM allows a non-lawful monk, Tetori are the best. They don't have the highest CMB, that belongs to the Barbarian grappler (I think), but the special abilities at higher levels really give the tetori the edge.
Is there a reason you can't play a Lawful Half-Succubus? I'm assuming so but... not seeing it.
No. Half-Fiend's alignment restriction, if it's used, is "any evil", including Lawful Evil. One could argue that it's RAI that you're restricted to the alignment of your parent fiend, but that's not stated or suggested anywhere.
Thanks a lot everyone!
Oh, sorry, I didn't express myself well with the alignement comment: I would have liked not to be lawful, not that I couldn't!
But seeing as Tetori is hands down the best(I didn't know it had a power to negate freedom of movement!) I'll roll with it.
In that case, what feats should I pick? I usually saw that Snapping Turtle style and the final embrace feats are the most suggested. Any other feat I should take into consideration? Also, can anyone that have played a Tetori tell me his experience with the archetype?
Tetori are awesome against anything that can be grappled. At high levels they can grapple freaking Dragons. For fun, grapple and pin a dragon while in flight and hope you roll low and the dragon rolls high on the falling damage.
Grappling dragons, hell yeah!
How's this for a first draft? Note that the template is probably getting changed a little: first thing, I won't get the natural attacks nor the Smite Evil. The fly speed is getting looked at, too.
Stats pre template:
19 STR
14 DEX
12 CON
10 INT
14 WIS
10 CHA
Post Template:
19 STR
16 DEX
16 CON
12 INT
16 WIS
18 CHA
Traits: -Calistrian Courtesan for fluff and profit
-A custom trait that lets me be a CN monk
-A campaign trait that makes me start with +1000 golds (again, mostly fluff)
Level 1: Snapping Turtle Style, M:Improved grapple, H:Steadfast personality
Level 2: Stunning Pin
Level 3: Snapping Turtle Clutch
Where should I go from here? Also, I have 4000 gold to spend, but I don't know on what. I was thinking on saving up for an Amulet of Mighty fists, maybe? (I could buy one, but blowing all my money on a single item at the start sounds not so smart :/)
Decent armour bonus maybe? You are going to be on the frontline enough for it to matter, and grappling while there. Do yourself a favour and protect yourself.
Hhhhm, at the time I'm at 18 AC: +1 Natural armor, +1 from Snapping Turtle,+3 Dex and +3 Wis.How could I up it? Maybe I could reduce INT (blonde succubus?) to buff Wis or Dex, and buy an headband to buff Wisdom? Ireally don't want to reduce CHA too much, both for fluff and because my level drain and SLAs scale with it.
Bracers of armor are a monk mainstay for a reason. But upping dex and wis is usually a good thing too.
Right, forgot about the bracers.
How does it look?
Female human (taldan) monk (tetori) 3 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 61)
LN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +9
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 17, flat-footed 15 (+1 armor, +4 dexterity, +1 natural, +3 untyped bonus)
hp 27 (3d8+9)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +6 (+3 insight bonus vs mind-affecting effects); +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities evasion
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Offense
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Speed 40 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +6 (1d6+4)
Special Attacks stunning fist (3/day, DC 14)
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Statistics
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Str 19, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 17
Base Atk +2; CMB +7 (+9 grapple); CMD 23 (26 vs. grapple)
Feats Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Snapping Turtle Clutch[UC], Snapping Turtle Style[UC], Steadfast Personality[ACG], Stunning Fist, Stunning Pin[UC]
Traits calistrian courtesan
Skills Acrobatics +10, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +9 (+10 to gather information), Intimidate +7, Perception +9, Sense Motive +10, Stealth +8, Swim +8
Languages Common
SQ fast movement, graceful grappler, hedonistic, maneuver training
Other Gear bracers of armor +1, 3,000 gp
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Special Abilities
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Calistrian Courtesan You worked in one of Calistria’s temples as a sacred courtesan, and you know how to flatter, please, and (most of all) listen. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks and Diplomacy checks to gather information, and one of these skills (your
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Movement (+10 ft.) The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Graceful Grappler (Ex) A tetori uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine CMB and CMD for grappling. At 4th level, he suffers no penalties on attack rolls, can make attacks of opportunity while grappling, and retains his Dexterity bonus to AC when
Hedonistic If you do not gain a reward in a day, you are fatigued for 4h the next day (Fort DC 20 negates)
Improved Grapple You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when grappling a foe.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Snapping Turtle Clutch Your shield bonus applies to your CMD and touch AC
Snapping Turtle Style +1 Gain +1 shield bonus to AC when at least one hand is free
Steadfast Personality You gain a +3 insight bonus to Will saves vs mind-affecting effects.
Stunning Fist (3/day, DC 14) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Pin Use Stunning Fist against pinned opponents
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Traits:
Halfblood - Zhen had many children, and even more grandchildren. He tends to spoil them rotten...
Effect - You start with an additional 1000gp and the Halfblood last name. Don’t worry about race - many of Zhen’s children were adopted. This may have other, surprising, effects.
Grappling Succubus: Go go CN monk succubus!
I have still 3000 gold to spend. Some tips? I guess that a backup ranged weapon won't hurt.
Actually, I'm a Beast-Wrestler Brawler. Favored Enemy? Bears.
Oooh, lots of good advice! :D
First things first: I'm adamant about staying a CN follower of Calistria, so Antipaladins, cavalier orders that don't really sit well with her, and the extremely cheesy celestial obedience for the empyreal lord that gives a +4 bonus to grapple are out (Maybe to be considered later if my alignement shift, but we'll see).
Grabbing style looks really cool. Just to be sure, I couldn't normally take it because I trade away flurry of blows, correct?
Aside that Urgathoa is gross, I don't think that Potion Glutton works with extracts. :/ There was a similar trait/feat that let you drink potions more quickly, but I think it was clarified that it doesn't work with extracts (I may be wrong, though).
As much I would like a tentacle to grapple young Tian schoolgirls, I already the grab ability with Tetori monk at 8th level, and you tend to scare away potential grapple clients with a moving tumor.
Though, seeing as I have sky high charisma and a feat I don't know how to spend at first level, couldn't I take Eldritch Heritage(Arcane) and pick a cute king crab familiar?
Gauntlets of skilled maneuvers are right up on my shopping list. I would have liked to take the Armbands of the brawler, but they occupy the wrist slot, something that I'm using for the bracers of armor.
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Grabbing style looks really cool. Just to be sure, I couldn't normally take it because I trade away flurry of blows, correct?
You normally couldn't take it early because you trade out flurry of blows, yes. I would allow any tetori to let graceful grappler qualify as flurry for the purpose of grabbing style prerequisites as a house rule though. It makes no sense that a monk who specialized in grappling would be unable to mast a grappling style at first level, but a monk who doesn't can.
A question tough: I went over the grapple rules, and I didn't find anything about grappling two enemies at once. The text of grabbing style makes me think that there is normally a -4 penalty, but I think I still have to use a standard action to maintain a grapple, something that I couldn't do if I was grappling 2 creatures at once. So how does it work?
Also, would it be useful to buy a couple of cold iron and silve cesti to punch trough DR, before I get an amulet of mighty fists?
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So there is normally a -4 penalty to grapple someone with one hand. Grabbing style eliminates that.
While it is normally a standard action to initiate or maintain a grapple, there are ways to reduce that. Greater Grapple allows you to make a second grapple as a move check. Rapid Grappler then allows you to make another grapple check as a swift action. The Grab special ability allows you to make a grapple check as a free action after a successful unarmed strike.
So, assuming you started your round adjacent to two enemies, you could make a standard action unarmed strike against Target A. It hits, triggering Grab, so you then make a free action grapple check that succeeds. Target A is grappled with one hand. You then make a move action grapple Target A again, either to apply damage or pin. You can then make a swift action grapple maneuver thanks to Rapid Grappler, that can be used against Target B.
If you manage to get Final Embrace, to get constrict damage on all of these grapple checks, things get downright deadly.