Prometheus 2: This Time It Makes Sense


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it must be a horrible existence being unable to suspend disbelief when it comes to such trivial things

The Exchange

Big Justin wrote:
the characters acted like idiots because they were idiots. it was a movie was about a deluded upper class crushed by an indifferent universe. this actually makes it a better movie and reinforces its core themes.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. How is it about an upper class in any way? Even if it was, there is no conceivable way that those people would make it to an upper class. I'm pretty sure all of them would manage to die crossing a street back in Earth.


Look guys, it's time to just accept that everything you know is wrong.


I can't tell if you're choosing to interpret my reading completely literally solely to throw a weak jab at fictional characters (that relies on the false assumption that only those with common sense exist among the elite) or if you're unable to recognize allegory. in any case it helps to view it alongside the original alien.

Sovereign Court

The movie was barely acceptable. Just because you think that you get it, doesn't mean that you get it.

Sovereign Court

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I get that the movie is supposed to be an allegory. The characters just lacked sense to a point I couldn't suspend my disbelief. I think if they would have made a few simple adjustments the film would have been so much better. Even though I didn't think Prometheus was a great film I enjoyed it enough to look forward to a sequel.


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Big Justin wrote:
it must be a horrible existence being unable to suspend disbelief when it comes to such trivial things

Suspending my disbelief: Shaw clearly has 3-4 doctoral degrees. She's an archaeologist, astrophysicists and biologists, plus probably one or two more. That's hard to believe, but it's easier having her involved in all primary scenes than to have multiple mouth pieces for the plot. Suspension of disbelief.

Fifield forgot the very purpose for why he was brought with, literally 5 minutes after he just did it. He didn't bother using the tools that HE brought and was the primary person trained in their use. That's not even remotely believable or excusable. It's sloppy writing.

As for the seeding of Earth, it just leaves too many questions unasnwered.

When did it happen?
Did it create all life? Or just humans?

Why does the black goo (B) mixed with Engineer (A) make humans (C)?
Why does the black goo mixed(B) with human (C) (who are a genetic match for Engineer) make face hugger(D)?
Why does face hugger(D) mixed with Engineer(A) make xenomorph(E)?

Lets break this down with math.

A+B=C
A=C
B+C=D
A+D=E

What this tells us is that B has a value of zero. A+B=C, but remember A=C, without B involved, so B's value is zero. B+C=D, but we just learned that B has a value of zero, so C=D. That also means that A=C=D.

Since A=D, A+D=A+A, therefore A+A=E. Or all Engineer children are xenomorphs. Also C+C=E, therefore all human children are xenomorphs.

This is the implied logic of the movie. I'm not suspending my disbelief, I am listening to what the movie is telling me.

Shadow Lodge

The Xenomorph evolves based on the type of creature it grows from. The Black Goo, (it not the movies goal to explain the Black Goo and more than any Alien(s) movie has explained how they can survive with molecular acid blood, or survive even extreme environments), from what we can tell, breaks down the body and was used to seed other planets with DNA. Alien Transenspermia is a s real world "theory", not one created by the movie, and I don't think that was the point of the movie, just the lead up to what occurs.

It's not too far of a logical stretch to assume that the black goo could have been used to seal the early stage xenomorphs in, as their instinct is to impregnate other creatures with themselves, in some sort of suspension.

Altering the atmosphere, (or maybe the robot accidentally or purposefully activated them when he opened the door), probably broke that suspension.

So, let me give everyone that's not getting the movie a quick run through.

A pair of scientists/archaeologists discover a painting with the same symbolism as other throughout the world, but this one predates them by a long time. The repeated symbolism was a cluster of stars, and particularly interesting, a system that none of those ancient peoples would have any means to know about, but now, in the future, humanity does have a method to travel to. There is a single planet that might be able to harbor life and try to get funding to go explore, believing it will be the greatest finding of all time.

Unable to get the funding the want, they instead get it from the Weyland (spelling) corp, who secretly has an agenda. Or a few really. The guy that okayed it, sadly has passed on by the time they wake up from hypersleep, only to find his less sympathetic daughter in charge and changing the deal. They had also hired a variety of other experts in fields to go too, (in the Aien(s) verse, deep space explorers tended to be the ones that didn't have friends and family, as their career involved them hypersleeping for months to years there and then the way back).

Anyway, they get there, fully believing that they are going to the Engineers home world, and find that something has basically exterminated them, (that's what they think).

Finding signs of construction (Nazca Landing Strips), they go explore.

There are monsters and mysteries.

A lot of people die.

Turns out a lot of people have different agendas and it looks like the Engineers where not benevolat.

Also turns out old man Weyland has been alive the hole time, and has programmed his son, the robot, to do everything he can to find a cure for old age/death.

His daughter, a real girl (and willing to prove it) doesn't like that her father has always cared more about the robot, and has been waiting and waiting to inherit it all.

All the other scientists are there to get paid.

They finally find an actual living Engineer, find out the entire planet was just a weapons storage (for the Aliens), and the caves they are in are actually a space ship. A lot of people die. Engineer attacks. More people die.

The last survivors think they know the true Engineer's homeworld and make their way back to the ship and fly away.


"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
The last survivors think they know the true Engineer's homeworld and make their way back to the ship and fly away.

This is exactly why I am excited to see the next movie. Love this set-up.


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Infinity Plus One wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
The last survivors think they know the true Engineer's homeworld and make their way back to the ship and fly away.
This is exactly why I am excited to see the next movie. Love this set-up.

Going to the Engineers homeworld, after they've already demonstrated that they are willing to put considerable resources into wiping out humanity and the only reason they haven't is that something went wrong and they haven't realized they failed yet, rather than going home and warning earth so it isn't completely undefended when they do rock up to finish the job?

I see no problems with this plan at all.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
FuelDrop wrote:
Infinity Plus One wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
The last survivors think they know the true Engineer's homeworld and make their way back to the ship and fly away.
This is exactly why I am excited to see the next movie. Love this set-up.

Going to the Engineers homeworld, after they've already demonstrated that they are willing to put considerable resources into wiping out humanity and the only reason they haven't is that something went wrong and they haven't realized they failed yet, rather than going home and warning earth so it isn't completely undefended when they do rock up to finish the job?

I see no problems with this plan at all.

Now I LIKED Prometheus despite the fact that almost the entire cast was made of the most dumb and annoying people ever. I saw it in IMAX 3D in the theater and it was an AMAZING visual experience.

That being said the whole idea of going to the planet of 8ft tall super strong serial killers to ask them WHY they want to serial kill you?

Just seems like the mother of ALL STUPID IDEAS.


Me thinks there is some trollery to be found in this thread.


FuelDrop wrote:
Infinity Plus One wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
The last survivors think they know the true Engineer's homeworld and make their way back to the ship and fly away.
This is exactly why I am excited to see the next movie. Love this set-up.

Going to the Engineers homeworld, after they've already demonstrated that they are willing to put considerable resources into wiping out humanity and the only reason they haven't is that something went wrong and they haven't realized they failed yet, rather than going home and warning earth so it isn't completely undefended when they do rock up to finish the job?

I see no problems with this plan at all.

Its the horror movie stupidity issue. I wanted to like this movie but like many in this thread the plot holes got so large i think the movie and the planet it was set on, fell though them.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Irontruth wrote:

How does Fifield get lost?

He's a geologist. He owns "pups", which he uses to map out the space they're in. These create a 3-D map of the interior, which is transmitted back to the ship.

After the others leave, it is clearly established that they still have contact with the ship. Their position can even be monitored on the ship and they get read outs they can report back to the ship to verify their position.

Why didn't they hear the call to return to the ship? Did they forget that they made a map? Did Fifield forget HE made a map?

Fifield just got into an argument with Shaw. He's pissed because she's made him feel like a coward. He storms off in a huff, with biologist guy trailing behind. He doesn't bother to check his map because he's angry, and he makes a wrong turn.

The map is still in the process of being made. It's a small handful of drones mapping a massive labyrinthine space with lasers, and they only fly so fast. In fact, if memory serves, we continue to see portions of the map getting updated throughout the film. Presumably when Fifield takes his wrong turn, he walks off the map. He doesn't realize he's off the map going the wrong way until they've made a few turns and haven't found the exit. Calling up the map at that point would help them, certainly, but at best it's only going to give them their position relative to the mapped portion, and with the way the tunnels twist and turn and branch that's only going to be marginally helpful.

By the time they hear the call to return to the ship, they're already lost. They find their way back to the main chamber just in time to hear that they can't leave until the storm passes.

I'm not saying its great storytelling to have the guys get lost on their way back to the ship, but this map thing is a nitpick. The way people harp on it, you'd think the entire film hinges on two guys getting lost in a spaceship.


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So an experienced scientist on an alien planet, one who specializes in geology (and, presumably, map-making), walks off the grid, essentially in a snit, at precisely the time that frostiness and caution is called for in a once-in-a-career/lifetime situation.

And there are too many of these moments in the film. Real scientists do not and would not act like kids on a field trip.

Calling this a great film, as some have, is the equivalent of declaring your beautiful but dumber-than-dirt (or cunningly manipulative) and b!tchy girlfriend a great person. No ... she's a hot person, which is why you want to overlook her flaws. It's understandable, trying to justify what boils down to, "I can't help it; she just does it for me," when it's fascination with the visual aspect of the film (which is awesome) that has some of the audience mesmerized.

Great visuals contribute, but do not a great film make.


Jaelithe wrote:

So an experienced scientist on an alien planet, one who specializes in geology (and, presumably, map-making), walks off the grid, essentially in a snit, at precisely the time that frostiness and caution is called for in a once-in-a-career/lifetime situation.

And there are too many of these moments in the film. Real scientists do not and would not act like kids on a field trip.

Calling this a great film, as some have, is the equivalent of declaring your beautiful but dumber-than-dirt and b!tchy girlfriend a great person. No ... she's a hot person, which is why you want to overlook her flaws. It's understandable, trying to justify what boils down to, "I can't help it; she just does it for me," when it's fascination with the visual aspect of the film (which is awesome) that has some of the audience mesmerized.

Great visuals contribute, but do not a great film make.

Fifield was also stoned as f@$! when he wandered off in a snit. Also just because he was a mapmaker and a geologist doesn't mean he knows how to use a map to navigate with. It was also explained this was the first time he and most of the other scientists had ever been off earth coupled with the the belief that they were the only life on the planet leads him to be incredibly careless.

Real scientists do and have behaved this way throughout human history, this is why protocols for safety are drilled into them before and during "field trips". Weyland kept them all in the dark and skipped the safety training leading to the majority of the "stupid moves" the scientist, not explorers, did.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Jaelithe wrote:

So an experienced scientist on an alien planet, one who specializes in geology (and, presumably, map-making), walks off the grid, essentially in a snit, at precisely the time that frostiness and caution is called for in a once-in-a-career/lifetime situation.

And there are too many of these moments in the film. Real scientists do not and would not act like kids on a field trip.

Calling this a great film, as some have, is the equivalent of declaring your beautiful but dumber-than-dirt (or cunningly manipulative) and b!tchy girlfriend a great person. No ... she's a hot person, which is why you want to overlook her flaws. It's understandable, trying to justify what boils down to, "I can't help it; she just does it for me," when it's fascination with the visual aspect of the film (which is awesome) that has some of the audience mesmerized.

Great visuals contribute, but do not a great film make.

And in Alien, the ship's captain violates quarantine procedures and brings an alien life form on board despite explicit regulations prohibiting doing so (and against the advice of the ship's warrant officer). That was a pretty dumb move, but nobody b%$#%es about that.

Fifield is a human being placed into an unfamiliar and terrifying situation. I'm willing to buy him making a mistake.

And lets be clear, I don't think Prometheus was a great film. I thought it was a fun film. Aside from great visuals, it was atmospheric, and mysterious, and there were some wonderfully gross body-horror moments. Parts of it were great, e.g. Fassbender's performance. Overall, it had it's weaknesses, but I enjoyed it (especially the fan edit that added in some of the deleted scenes). I look forward to the next one.


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

How does Fifield get lost?

He's a geologist. He owns "pups", which he uses to map out the space they're in. These create a 3-D map of the interior, which is transmitted back to the ship.

After the others leave, it is clearly established that they still have contact with the ship. Their position can even be monitored on the ship and they get read outs they can report back to the ship to verify their position.

Why didn't they hear the call to return to the ship? Did they forget that they made a map? Did Fifield forget HE made a map?

Fifield just got into an argument with Shaw. He's pissed because she's made him feel like a coward. He storms off in a huff, with biologist guy trailing behind. He doesn't bother to check his map because he's angry, and he makes a wrong turn.

The map is still in the process of being made. It's a small handful of drones mapping a massive labyrinthine space with lasers, and they only fly so fast. In fact, if memory serves, we continue to see portions of the map getting updated throughout the film. Presumably when Fifield takes his wrong turn, he walks off the map. He doesn't realize he's off the map going the wrong way until they've made a few turns and haven't found the exit. Calling up the map at that point would help them, certainly, but at best it's only going to give them their position relative to the mapped portion, and with the way the tunnels twist and turn and branch that's only going to be marginally helpful.

By the time they hear the call to return to the ship, they're already lost. They find their way back to the main chamber just in time to hear that they can't leave until the storm passes.

I'm not saying its great storytelling to have the guys get lost on their way back to the ship, but this map thing is a nitpick. The way people harp on it, you'd think the entire film hinges on two guys getting lost in a spaceship.

It was an open comm channel. They heard the report at the same time as everyone else to return to the ship. Why didn't they say "we're lost" at that point? And here's the thing.....

No, the WHOLE movie doesn't hinge on it, but there are multiple scenes that are based around this situation. It's horrible writing and a gaping hole in the plot.

Nothing you explained is IN the movie. That's the point of a plot hole. Sure, I can invent things in my mind to make it make sense. Maybe Fifield has early onset Alzheimer's, that would perfectly explain his apparent memory loss. The thing is, the MOVIE doesn't explain it. That's why it is called a plot hole.

Analogy to the conversation you and I are having:

Me: See this hole in the street, it's a pot hole.
You: But if you fill it in, it's not a hole.
Me: That's true, but it's not filled in. Therefore it's a hole.
You: But you COULD fill it in, therefore not a hole.

It doesn't matter if YOU can come up with an explanation. The problem is that the MOVIE didn't have an explanation. Therefore, plot hole.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Irontruth wrote:

It was an open comm channel. They heard the report at the same time as everyone else to return to the ship. Why didn't they say "we're lost" at that point? And here's the thing.....

No, the WHOLE movie doesn't hinge on it, but there are multiple scenes that are based around this situation. It's horrible writing and a gaping hole in the plot.

Nothing you explained is IN the movie. That's the point of a plot hole. Sure, I can invent things in my mind to make it make sense. Maybe Fifield has early onset Alzheimer's, that would perfectly explain his apparent memory loss. The thing is, the MOVIE doesn't explain it. That's why it is called a plot hole.

Analogy to the conversation you and I are having:

Me: See this hole in the street, it's a pot hole.
You: But if you fill it in, it's not a hole.
Me: That's true, but it's not filled in. Therefore it's a hole.
You: But you COULD fill it in, therefore not a hole.

It doesn't matter if YOU can come up with an explanation. The problem is that the MOVIE didn't have an explanation. Therefore, plot hole.

That's not what a plot hole is. A plot hole is an irreconcilable gap or inconsistency in the plot. By definition, if you can fill it, it's not a plot hole.

Plot Hole

By your definition, film makers are leaving plot holes every time they cut away from the action and cut back. :)

"Wait, that guy was driving on the freeway earlier, now he's at his house! How did that happen! We never saw him take an exit ramp! Did he teleport?! Plot hole! Sloppy writing!"

And really, the only thing we're missing from my narrative is a moment where Fifield actually checks his map and see that he's out of the mapped portion and says a curse word. Everything else I said, we actually did see, or could logically be assumed (i.e. it's hard to get lost without taking a wrong turn).

As to why they didn't say they were lost? He left because he was pissed off and embarrassed. Admitting he made a mistake is only going to make him more pissed off and embarrassed. Why would he do that if he didn't need to?

The Exchange

It will never make sense unless we assume that the Sigourney weaver years are an attempt by a secret 'synod of the church of truth' ruled board of directors to achieve the evolutionary outcome achieved in 'aliens resurrection' and the next few films involve the emergence of that 'secret church' as it solidifies its control of the company.

The Exchange

Irontruth wrote:
Big Justin wrote:
it must be a horrible existence being unable to suspend disbelief when it comes to such trivial things

Suspending my disbelief: Shaw clearly has 3-4 doctoral degrees. She's an archaeologist, astrophysicists and biologists, plus probably one or two more. That's hard to believe, but it's easier having her involved in all primary scenes than to have multiple mouth pieces for the plot. Suspension of disbelief.

Fifield forgot the very purpose for why he was brought with, literally 5 minutes after he just did it. He didn't bother using the tools that HE brought and was the primary person trained in their use. That's not even remotely believable or excusable. It's sloppy writing.

As for the seeding of Earth, it just leaves too many questions unasnwered.

When did it happen?
Did it create all life? Or just humans?

Why does the black goo (B) mixed with Engineer (A) make humans (C)?
Why does the black goo mixed(B) with human (C) (who are a genetic match for Engineer) make face hugger(D)?
Why does face hugger(D) mixed with Engineer(A) make xenomorph(E)?

Lets break this down with math.

A+B=C
A=C
B+C=D
A+D=E

What this tells us is that B has a value of zero. A+B=C, but remember A=C, without B involved, so B's value is zero. B+C=D, but we just learned that B has a value of zero, so C=D. That also means that A=C=D.

Since A=D, A+D=A+A, therefore A+A=E. Or all Engineer children are xenomorphs. Also C+C=E, therefore all human children are xenomorphs.

This is the implied logic of the movie. I'm not suspending my disbelief, I am listening to what the movie is telling me.

The family tree version of your logic relatioship is e=bg->h=bg->fh=e->x

Thus the black goo is {missing parent} that randomly divides the genome of the {other parent} into {agressive offspring}. So when engineer = face hugger he is contributing new genetic potential into the {agressive offspring} of humans meaning Sigourney in alien ressurection is more than human she is engineer. Its also a parasite species.


yellowdingo wrote:
It will never make sense unless we assume that the Sigourney weaver years are an attempt by a secret 'synod of the church of truth' ruled board of directors to achieve the evolutionary outcome achieved in 'aliens resurrection' and the next few films involve the emergence of that 'secret church' as it solidifies its control of the company.

And I'm suddenly having flashbacks to Deadspace and its Church of Unitology... Which the developers would like to make clear is in no way meant to be a jab at Scientology. No way. Nope. Nuh-uh... Please don't sue them.

Sovereign Court

It's a very good jab. I liked it.

The Exchange

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

It was an open comm channel. They heard the report at the same time as everyone else to return to the ship. Why didn't they say "we're lost" at that point? And here's the thing.....

No, the WHOLE movie doesn't hinge on it, but there are multiple scenes that are based around this situation. It's horrible writing and a gaping hole in the plot.

Nothing you explained is IN the movie. That's the point of a plot hole. Sure, I can invent things in my mind to make it make sense. Maybe Fifield has early onset Alzheimer's, that would perfectly explain his apparent memory loss. The thing is, the MOVIE doesn't explain it. That's why it is called a plot hole.

Analogy to the conversation you and I are having:

Me: See this hole in the street, it's a pot hole.
You: But if you fill it in, it's not a hole.
Me: That's true, but it's not filled in. Therefore it's a hole.
You: But you COULD fill it in, therefore not a hole.

It doesn't matter if YOU can come up with an explanation. The problem is that the MOVIE didn't have an explanation. Therefore, plot hole.

That's not what a plot hole is. A plot hole is an irreconcilable gap or inconsistency in the plot. By definition, if you can fill it, it's not a plot hole.

Plot Hole

By your definition, film makers are leaving plot holes every time they cut away from the action and cut back. :)

"Wait, that guy was driving on the freeway earlier, now he's at his house! How did that happen! We never saw him take an exit ramp! Did he teleport?! Plot hole! Sloppy writing!"

And really, the only thing we're missing from my narrative is a moment where Fifield actually checks his map and see that he's out of the mapped portion and says a curse word. Everything else I said, we actually did see, or could logically be assumed (i.e. it's hard to get lost without taking a wrong turn).

As to why they didn't say they were lost? He left because he was pissed off and embarrassed....

Call it a plot hole or not, that's semantics. The important part here is that while watching the movie, the experience is as follows: you are presented to this guy who's supposedly good at his job. He then proceeds to make the kind of mistake that only a particularly incompetent student would make in his first field day. The movie never pauses to deal with that fact - the character's predicament is presented as logical. I don't remember the other members of the cast scratching their heads and going, "how the hell did that happen?".

The bottom line is that it doesn't feel like the movie is aware of just how dumb what just happened is. Which is why we as the audience do ourselves a better service by thinking that it's incompetent writing, not some intentional charged social situation with tons of subtext. By merley asking, "how did the map specialist get lost within five minutes of undertaking his most important job ever?", we are already giving more thought to the script than the people who wrote it. You can just *feel* it, when a script is smart. In Prometheus, you can very (very( easily feel that it is not.

The Exchange

I mean ask yourself the following question: when the writers of the script sat down to do their work, what they needed to ask themselves was "what can we do to make this movie as good as it could possibly be?". Every decision they made should be guided by this question.

So where exactly in that plan of making a great movie does having something that's seemingly so stupid that it breaks immersion for 90% of the audience happen? Why did the writers think their movie would be better by presenting us someone, showing how he can never ever get lost... and promptly have him get lost in the next scene? Worse, why do they disrespect our intelligence as an audience and never have any moment on screen that shows the characters reacting to such an incredulous event? Do you with perfect honesty say that this plot device improved the movie? look at the result. Most people hate it. Obviously it didn't.

So if that's not the best way to make the movie... why make it?

The simplest answer, the one that sits best with all that we know about this movie?

The script sucks. It was either made with some bare minimum of effort or by people lacking the talent to make a better one.

Now there are surely other possible answers, but they are considerably harder to believe than the first one.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Maybe you missed the part where I agreed that it isn't great storytelling?

I just don't think it's the mortal sin people are making it out to be.

To go back to the pot hole metaphor, this was a pot hole. You drive over it, it makes your car bump, and that maybe upsets you. It was not a ditch, into which your car crashes and catches fire. Hell, it's not even the biggest pot hole on that stretch of road.

Or to put it another way, if Prometheus is a road, then I think it's a bumpy one that could use some maintenance, but the scenery is lovely and it has some interesting shops along the way. C+.


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Maybe you missed the part where I agreed that it isn't great storytelling?

I just don't think it's the mortal sin people are making it out to be.

To go back to the pot hole metaphor, this was a pot hole. You drive over it, it makes your car bump, and that maybe upsets you. It was not a ditch, into which your car crashes and catches fire. Hell, it's not even the biggest pot hole on that stretch of road.

Or to put it another way, if Prometheus is a road, then I think it's a bumpy one that could use some maintenance, but the scenery is lovely and it has some interesting shops along the way. C+.

These are all valid points... except that Prometheus is part of a much-loved science fiction franchise and as a result it's held to high standard. On top of that it billed itself as a BIG THING, and once again this raises the bar to the point where C+ just isn't cutting it.

Call it hype backlash if you want.


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FuelDrop wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Maybe you missed the part where I agreed that it isn't great storytelling?

I just don't think it's the mortal sin people are making it out to be.

To go back to the pot hole metaphor, this was a pot hole. You drive over it, it makes your car bump, and that maybe upsets you. It was not a ditch, into which your car crashes and catches fire. Hell, it's not even the biggest pot hole on that stretch of road.

Or to put it another way, if Prometheus is a road, then I think it's a bumpy one that could use some maintenance, but the scenery is lovely and it has some interesting shops along the way. C+.

These are all valid points... except that Prometheus is part of a much-loved science fiction franchise and as a result it's held to high standard. On top of that it billed itself as a BIG THING, and once again this raises the bar to the point where C+ just isn't cutting it.

Call it hype backlash if you want.

OTOH, the franchise was really riding on the first two movies. The others pretty much already had the hype backlash problem.

Prometheus certainly had problems, but it also had high concept and set up a lot of cool mysteries, even if they don't make a lot of sense. OF course, that makes it harder for the sequel - cool answers are a lot harder to come up with than cool mysteries.


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Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

It was an open comm channel. They heard the report at the same time as everyone else to return to the ship. Why didn't they say "we're lost" at that point? And here's the thing.....

No, the WHOLE movie doesn't hinge on it, but there are multiple scenes that are based around this situation. It's horrible writing and a gaping hole in the plot.

Nothing you explained is IN the movie. That's the point of a plot hole. Sure, I can invent things in my mind to make it make sense. Maybe Fifield has early onset Alzheimer's, that would perfectly explain his apparent memory loss. The thing is, the MOVIE doesn't explain it. That's why it is called a plot hole.

Analogy to the conversation you and I are having:

Me: See this hole in the street, it's a pot hole.
You: But if you fill it in, it's not a hole.
Me: That's true, but it's not filled in. Therefore it's a hole.
You: But you COULD fill it in, therefore not a hole.

It doesn't matter if YOU can come up with an explanation. The problem is that the MOVIE didn't have an explanation. Therefore, plot hole.

That's not what a plot hole is. A plot hole is an irreconcilable gap or inconsistency in the plot. By definition, if you can fill it, it's not a plot hole.

Plot Hole

By your definition, film makers are leaving plot holes every time they cut away from the action and cut back. :)

"Wait, that guy was driving on the freeway earlier, now he's at his house! How did that happen! We never saw him take an exit ramp! Did he teleport?! Plot hole! Sloppy writing!"

And really, the only thing we're missing from my narrative is a moment where Fifield actually checks his map and see that he's out of the mapped portion and says a curse word. Everything else I said, we actually did see, or could logically be assumed (i.e. it's hard to get lost without taking a wrong turn).

As to why they didn't say they were lost? He left because he was pissed off and embarrassed....

It's irreconcilable.

He was literally brought light years from Earth to create 3-D maps of interior spaces. This is a trillion dollar project.

Imagine putting together your own trillion dollar project, do you hire:

1) The guy who forgets what his job is every 5 minutes.
2) The guy who remembers what his job is most of the time (or more).

I'm guessing you go with 2.

The movie did not explain how this man forgot the one thing he's spent his professional career training for. It didn't explain how he got lost. It's not like they showed lots of twists and turns. They showed one hallway. How do you get lost in a single hallway that only goes 2 directions?

Even later, when the show the whole thing, it's just a giant spiral. How do you get lost in that?

It doesn't make sense.

Plot hole

Maybe he had to stop at his mom's house for her birthday party. It's POSSIBLE, therefore by your explanation, not a plot hole.

They could have given the captain a throw-away line:

"Sometimes people get Space Amnesia, it happens."


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Irontruth wrote:
Suspending my disbelief: Shaw clearly has 3-4 doctoral degrees. She's an archaeologist, astrophysicists and biologists, plus probably one or two more. That's hard to believe, but it's easier having her involved in all primary scenes than to have multiple mouth pieces for the plot. Suspension of disbelief.

AND she likes to base her scientific findings on nothing, and then support her unfounded theories with the deeply scientific argument that "it's what I choose to believe." :p

Also, you definitely don't need guns on scientific expeditions. Even for scientific expeditions on foreign worlds where no one has ever been and that you have no idea whether is home to a species of indigenous space bears.

Lord Snow wrote:
The bottom line is that it doesn't feel like the movie is aware of just how dumb what just happened is.

Exactly this. There's a big difference between a movie of people doing dumb things, and a movie that doesn't seem to realize the people are doing dumb things.

The Exchange

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thejeff wrote:
FuelDrop wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Maybe you missed the part where I agreed that it isn't great storytelling?

I just don't think it's the mortal sin people are making it out to be.

To go back to the pot hole metaphor, this was a pot hole. You drive over it, it makes your car bump, and that maybe upsets you. It was not a ditch, into which your car crashes and catches fire. Hell, it's not even the biggest pot hole on that stretch of road.

Or to put it another way, if Prometheus is a road, then I think it's a bumpy one that could use some maintenance, but the scenery is lovely and it has some interesting shops along the way. C+.

These are all valid points... except that Prometheus is part of a much-loved science fiction franchise and as a result it's held to high standard. On top of that it billed itself as a BIG THING, and once again this raises the bar to the point where C+ just isn't cutting it.

Call it hype backlash if you want.

OTOH, the franchise was really riding on the first two movies. The others pretty much already had the hype backlash problem.

Prometheus certainly had problems, but it also had high concept and set up a lot of cool mysteries, even if they don't make a lot of sense. OF course, that makes it harder for the sequel - cool answers are a lot harder to come up with than cool mysteries.

I think public patience for Lindelof and his cool mysteries is justifiably running out.


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In a way, the film is even more irritating because you see the framework of an excellent movie while watching. (Scott's Kingdom of Heaven is similar, though the Director's Cut is the three-star blockbuster I went to see, vis-à-vis the two-star disjointed morass I got when going to the cinema.)

It doesn't pass the eyeball test. If, when viewing the film the first time through, you're watching the characters and exclaiming, "What a bunch of effin' idiots!" (as I was), then watching a second time and devising convoluted justifications in hindsight doesn't get it done.

It's right up there with Abrams' Star Trek films as eye candy—perfect examples of style without substance.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:


And in Alien, the ship's captain violates quarantine procedures and brings an alien life form on board despite explicit regulations prohibiting doing so (and against the advice of the ship's warrant officer). That was a pretty dumb move, but nobody b+$*!es about that.

The reason that no one complains about that is because that's NOT what happens. AT ALL.

Movie plot spoiler:
Dallas and Lambert haul Kane's body to the door and Dallas informs Ripley of Kane's status (facehuggered) and tells her to open the door.

She declines and tells Dallas why. They could infect the ship and put everyone else in danger. They have a back and forth as Dallas is desparate to get his friend back on the ship and get him some medical attention. They whole time the Science Officer, Ash is listening in and it's HE who opens the door for Dallas, Lambert and Kane and let's them on the ship.

Ripley confronts him about this later on and reminds him that when Dallas is off the Nostromo that Ripley is in fact in charge.

Remember, we find out the investigating that signal was on the Company's agenda even BEFORE the Nostromo took off for this trip as Dallas tells Ripley that he'd shipped out with another Science Officer several times before and just before this trip they pulled that guy and replaced him with Ash...


Big Justin wrote:
it must be a horrible existence being unable to suspend disbelief when it comes to such trivial things

/End thread.


Kthulhu wrote:
I think that one of the problems that a lot of people have with Prometheus is their expectations. Despite never being marketed as such, and several people involved with creating the movie saying that it is NOT an Alien movie, lots of viewers seem intent on viewing it as a prequel to Alien.

Nah. I think this is likely a false assertion.

For me, I came in expecting no direct links with the Alien series. In fact, that probably added to my disappointment of the weird, totally unnecessary scene at the very end. Why bother? It didn't add anything (and arguably made things worse).

The Exchange

Wait...what scene? An end credits scene? Ah man!!


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Brother Fen wrote:
Big Justin wrote:
it must be a horrible existence being unable to suspend disbelief when it comes to such trivial things
/End thread.

The condescension. It is real.

People get to judge movies. Deal with it.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

While the map-making geologist getting lost was bad, I was more distracted by the biologist, who gets COMPLETELY FREAKED out at the possibility of alien life signs, but then a scene or two later is ready to be best friends forever with the obviously dangerous viper penis alien.

Really...Characters just...do stuff in the movie, without any logical or consistent explanation.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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ShinHakkaider wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:


And in Alien, the ship's captain violates quarantine procedures and brings an alien life form on board despite explicit regulations prohibiting doing so (and against the advice of the ship's warrant officer). That was a pretty dumb move, but nobody b+$*!es about that.

The reason that no one complains about that is because that's NOT what happens. AT ALL.

** spoiler omitted **

That IS what happens.

Spoiler:
Ash makes it possible by opening the door, but that doesn't make Dallas any less culpable for his actions.

Dallas asks them to open the door. He demands it. He flat out orders Ripley to open the hatch. The fact that he doesn't personally open the hatch himself is irrelevant. He wanted it open so he could break quarantine procedures, and when the hatch gets opened, he carries out his plan to do so.

We know from later on that Ash has ulterior motives for opening the door, but Dallas doesn't know that. From his perspective, Ash is merely helping him break quarantine.

As you say, he wants to get his friend medical attention. He allows emotion to cloud his judgement, and in doing so indirectly causes the deaths of almost the entire crew. Dumb move. Understandable, given his concern for his friend, but still dumb (and the events of the film bear that out).

The Exchange

MMCJawa wrote:

While the map-making geologist getting lost was bad, I was more distracted by the biologist, who gets COMPLETELY FREAKED out at the possibility of alien life signs, but then a scene or two later is ready to be best friends forever with the obviously dangerous viper penis alien.

Really...Characters just...do stuff in the movie, without any logical or consistent explanation.

There's also the android who infects his crew members with the black goo because of... reasons?

Sovereign Court

He's curious, plus working for Wayland.


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Hama wrote:
He's curious, plus working for Wayland.

Who, by the by, is behind one of the most anticlimactic "surprise twists" in the history of the movie industry. :p

"SURPRISE! I lied about being dead!" (uh, okay. Why did we care that you came along in the first place?)

"And also I want to ask the Engineers vaguely different questions than Shaw. Talk about classic surprise twist!" (Uhm, okay, this still does't explain why you couldn't just have been aboard the ship like a normal person. Though I suppose at least it explains why the medical-whatsit machine is spontaneously misogynistic.)

The Exchange

Slaunyeh wrote:
Hama wrote:
He's curious, plus working for Wayland.

Who, by the by, is behind one of the most anticlimactic "surprise twists" in the history of the movie industry. :p

"SURPRISE! I lied about being dead!" (uh, okay. Why did we care that you came along in the first place?)

"And also I want to ask the Engineers vaguely different questions than Shaw. Talk about classic surprise twist!" (Uhm, okay, this still does't explain why you couldn't just have been aboard the ship like a normal person. Though I suppose at least it explains why the medical-whatsit machine is spontaneously misogynistic.)

Question to ask big blue alien while hugging him: can we cross polinate?

The Exchange

Hama wrote:
He's curious, plus working for Wayland.

"curious" is not anywhere near an acceptable justification for something like that. And as for working for Wayland - that just makes this event a part of a convoluted plot that never made sense. Which leaves me with "this happened because of reasons".

Sovereign Court

He's also not human, or humane.


Lord Snow wrote:
Hama wrote:
He's curious, plus working for Wayland.
"curious" is not anywhere near an acceptable justification for something like that. And as for working for Wayland - that just makes this event a part of a convoluted plot that never made sense. Which leaves me with "this happened because of reasons".

Seriously, however remotely this is supposed to be related to the Alien franchise, the only thing that would surprise me about an android would be if it didn't maliciously dangerous along the way. That's their role.

Sovereign Court

Umm, Bishop? Cal?


Hama wrote:
Umm, Bishop? Cal?

Yeah, you're right. Somehow I'd gotten in my head that Bishop had turned as well.

I withdraw the comment.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Irontruth wrote:

It's irreconcilable.

He was literally brought light years from Earth to create 3-D maps of interior spaces. This is a trillion dollar project.

Imagine putting together your own trillion dollar project, do you hire:

1) The guy who forgets what his job is every 5 minutes.
2) The guy who remembers what his job is most of the time (or more).

I'm guessing you go with 2.

The movie did not explain how this man forgot the one thing he's spent his professional career training for. It didn't explain how he got lost. It's not like they showed lots of twists and turns. They showed one hallway. How do you get lost in a single hallway that only goes 2 directions?

Even later, when the show the whole thing, it's just a giant spiral. How do you get lost in that?

It doesn't make sense.

Plot hole

Maybe he had to stop at his mom's house for her birthday party. It's POSSIBLE, therefore by your explanation, not a plot hole.

They could have given the captain a throw-away line:

"Sometimes people get Space Amnesia, it happens."

You keep saying he needs to forget his job in order to get lost. That's just not true.

All that needs to happen is for him to think he doesn't need his map to get out. If he tries to leave without following his map, he gets lost, and then it's too late to leave.

The movie gives us several possible reasons for him to think he doesn't need a map. He's cocky, practically every character beat we get for him is acting full of himself or being an a-hole. He's pissed off because he just got in an argument, and he's freaked out by the giant dead aliens and their recording ghosts. Both those emotions can cloud his judgment. He might even be high (we see later that he brought along some "tobacco"). For that matter, bringing drugs into the field to hot-box himself in his spacesuit makes him seem more like a F-Up than the uber-professional you want to make him out to be.

If I'm hiring for a trillion dollar project, I hire good people. If it's an insane project, and I leave the hiring up to my daughter (who has conflicted feelings about me and about the legitimacy of the project itself) maybe we end up with some screw-ups in the crew?

As to not being able to get lost, only the upper part of the pyramid looks like a spiral. The base is made up of a series of chambers connected by curving hallways.

Concept Art of the Pyramid in Profile

Concept Art of the 3D map of the ground floor

Look at that second image especially and tell me you couldn't get lost in that.

They only show us the one hallway and a couple chambers because sets are expensive. You really want them to build a whole separate tunnel set just to film a 2 second shot that sets up two redshirts getting killed?

Shadow Lodge

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Lord Snow wrote:
Hama wrote:
He's curious, plus working for Wayland.
"curious" is not anywhere near an acceptable justification for something like that.

You don't need an acceptable justification if you don't place any value whatsoever on human life.

It's funny how most of the criticisms here are of the humans not acting like totally emotionless robots, with the exception of this one, which is aimed at a totally emotionless robot for not caring who it hurts.

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