So, when is this going to the MCA wiki webpage?
@Noro
Great! That gives me all the info I need. I'll try and whip it up tonight or tomorrow. We'll see. Been pretty busy as of late.
@Zifrel Findadur
The Totem Rager? When it's done.
#Totem Rager
Hey Noro, if you are wanting to have the TR use normal animals as their rage eidolon, why not have the TR simply select one animal companion from those listed in the druid class description? Use that animal as the base form. We've done this before in another MCA. Then we reduce the overall number of evolution points by 2 or even 3, as you are getting a creature with "built-in" evolutions, including some animal qualities like scent, etc. Though some of them do have +9 and +10 to their base AC, so we might need to put in a caveat that the creature only gains a max +2 to AC? Makes it pretty simple.
#Totem Rager
Hey Noro, if you are wanting to have the TR use normal animals as their rage eidolon, why not have the TR simply select one animal companion from those listed in the druid class description? Use that animal as the base form. We've done this before in another MCA. Then we reduce the overall number of evolution points by 2 or even 3, as you are getting a creature with "built-in" evolutions, including some animal qualities like scent, etc. Though some of them do have +9 and +10 to their base AC, so we might need to put in a caveat that the creature only gains a max +2 to AC? Makes it pretty simple.
Fine by me.
OK, how's this?
Some bloodragers believe that their power comes from a totem animal. As such, they draw upon their inner rage to temporarily manifest it in animal form. Once they are physical manifested, rage eidolons can fight alongside the totem rager, and can even return a portion of the bloodrage power back to them.
Primary Class: Bloodrager.
Secondary Class: Summoner.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The totem rager selects three summoner skills to add to his class skills, in addition to the normal bloodrager class skills. The totem rager gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The totem rager is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields). A totem rager can cast bloodrager spells while wearing light armor or medium armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. This does not affect the arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes. Like other arcane spellcasters, a totem rager wearing heavy armor or wielding a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has somatic components.
Bloodline: This is exactly like the bloodrager ability of the same name, except that the totem rager gains his 1st level bloodline power at 4th level, and each subsequent bloodline power every four levels thereafter, up to his 16th level bloodline power at 20th level.
Rage Eidolon (Su): A totem rager begins play with the ability to manifest his internal rage as a powerful beast called a rage eidolon. This functions in all ways as the summoner’s eidolon ability, except for the following changes.
As a swift action, a totem rager can manifest his eidolon for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Constitution modifier. At each level after 1st, he can manifest his rage eidolon for 2 additional rounds per day. Temporary increases to Constitution (such as those gained from spells like bear's endurance) don't increase the total number of rounds that a totem rager can manifest his rage eidolon per day. The total number of rounds of manifestation per day is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours need not be consecutive.
When the rage eidolon is manifested, it appears adjacent to the totem rager. If the target square is occupied, the eidolon can make an immediate bull rush attack against the creature occupying it. An unsuccessful bull rush positions the eidolon in a free adjacent square. If no adjacent squares are free, the eidolon can try bull rush as many different targets as it has attacks. If all tries fail, it is dismissed.
Once manifested, the rage eidolon enters a bloodrage as an immediate action and gains a +4 morale bonus to its Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, it takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the rage eidolon 2 hit points per Hit Die, but these disappear when the rage eidolon manifestation ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While bloodraging, a rage eidolon cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
When manifested, the rage eidolon’s hit points are unchanged from the last time it was dismissed or banished. The only exception to this is if the rage eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The rage eidolon does not heal naturally. The rage eidolon remains until dismissed by the totem rager (a free action) or his manifestation rounds end (an immediate action). If the rage eidolon manifestation ends due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day, even if the totem ragers has manifestation rounds remaining. The rage eidolon manifestation cannot be ended by means of dispel magic, but spells such as dismissal and banishment work normally. When the manifestation ends, the totem rager is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds that the rage eidolon is manifested.
The totem rager must select one of the animal companions from the druid’s list of animal companions. This animal functions as the rage eidolon’s base form, and once chosen, it cannot be changed. The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the totem rager, but it always appears as a fantastical version of his chosen animal. The eidolon’s Hit Dice, saving throws, skills, feats, and abilities are tied to the totem rager’s class level and increase as the totem rager gains levels, using Table: Eidolon Base Statistics found in the Eidolon description. Each rage eidolon also receives a pool of evolution points, based on the totem rager’s class level that can be used to give the rage eidolon different abilities and powers, but reduces his total number of evolution points by 2 (max 24 at 20th level). Whenever the totem rager gains a level, he must decide how these points are spent, and they are set until he gains another level of totem rager.
As the totem rager gains levels, the power of this rage eidolon’s bloodrage increases. At 11th level, a totem rager’s rage eidolon bloodrage improves to greater bloodrage. At 20th level, it improves to mighty bloodrage.
In addition, when the totem rager gains his uncanny dodge, blood sanctuary, improved uncanny dodge, and indomitable will class features, he also applies its effects to his rage eidolon. The rage eidolon may also select a feat from the totem rager’s bloodline feats as a normal feat.
At 4th level, the rage eidolon also gains the following ability.
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the totem rager 4th level or higher, a rage eidolon can deliver touch spells for him. If the totem rager and the rage eidolon are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his rage eidolon as the “toucher.” The rage eidolon can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the totem rager casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
The rage eidolon’s bloodrage counts as the barbarian's rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects. Any feats chosen or magical item abilities used by the totem rager that affect a barbarian’s rage ability affect the rage eidlon’s bloodrage instead.
This ability replaces the bloodrager’s 1st level bloodline power, bloodrage, as well as the eidolon’s evasion, improved evasion, and ability score increases.
Totem Magic: The totem rager adds the following summoner spells to his spell list, at the indicated spell level: 1st–life conduit, rejuvenate eidolon (lesser); 2nd–evolution surge (lesser), restore eidolon (lesser); 3rd–evolution surge, life conduit (improved), rejuvenate eidolon; 4th–evolution surge (greater), life conduit (greater), purified calling, restore eidolon, transmogrify.
Bloodrage Aspect (Su): At 6th level, a totem rager can divert 2 points from his eidolon’s evolution pool to add the benefits of bloodrage to himself. While his rage eidolon is manifested, the totem rager gains all the bonuses and penalties of bloodrage. Any points spent in this way are taken from the eidolon’s evolution pool (reducing the total number available to the eidolon). The summoner can change the evolutions he receives from these points any time he can change the eidolon’s evolutions.
If the rage eidolon manifestation ends, the totem rager can choose maintain his bloodrage by expending rounds of rage eidolon. These rounds count against his total daily rounds of rage eidolon. When the bloodrage ends, the totem rager is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds his rage eidolon was manifested, plus twice the number of rounds he maintained the bloodrage after the rage eidolon ended.
This ability replaces the bloodline feat gained at 6th level.
Greater Rage Eidolon (Su): This functions like the bloodrager’s geater bloodrage ability, except that the rage eidolon gains the benefits of greater bloodrage instead of the totem rager.
Greater Bloodrage Aspect (Su): At 15th level, a totem rager can divert 4 points from his rage eidolon to add the benefits of bloodrage to himself. This ability functions as the bloodrage aspect ability, but the totem rager gains the benefits of greater bloodrage instead. This ability replaces the bloodline feat gained at 15th level.
Tireless Bloodrage (Su): This is exactly like the bloodrager’s tireless bloodrage ability, except that the totem rager is not fatigued at the end of his rage eidolon’s bloodrage, or his own.
Mighty Rage Eidolon (Su): This functions like the bloodrager’s mighty bloodrage ability, except that the rage eidolon gains the benefits of mighty bloodrage instead of the totem rager.
Table: Totem Rager
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Bloodline, rage eidolon, fast movement, totem magic — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Uncanny dodge — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Bloodsanctuary — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Bloodcasting, bloodline power, eschew materials 1 — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Improved uncanny dodge 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bloodrage aspect 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Bloodline spell, damage reduction 1/— 1 1 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Bloodline power 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Bloodline feat 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Bloodline spell, damage reduction 2/— 2 1 1 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Greater rage eidolon 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bloodline feat, bloodline power 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Bloodline spell, damage reduction 3/— 3 2 1 1
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Indomitable will 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Greater bloodrage aspect 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Bloodline power, bloodline spell, damage reduction 4/— 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Tireless bloodrage 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bloodline feat 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Damage reduction 5/— 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Bloodline power (16), mighty rage eidolon 4 4 3 3
OK, how's this?
** spoiler omitted **...
Should totem magic add to the spell list as opposed to spells known? 13 extra spells known is a lot to a bloodrager. maybe they could replace the bloodline spells?
It is to spell list.
# Totem Rager
* Wow. I had no idea the bloodrager can cast spells in medium armor. Ridiculous.
* Gaining all the Rage effects for a measly 2 evo points seems unwarranted, regardless of it being at 6th level or the fairly hefty post-Rage fatigue penalty.
# Totem Rager
* Wow. I had no idea the bloodrager can cast spells in medium armor. Ridiculous.
* Gaining all the Rage effects for a measly 2 evo points seems unwarranted, regardless of it being at 6th level or the fairly hefty post-Rage fatigue penalty.
So are you saying it should cost more? Less? Should we go back to the normal fatigue setback? Both? Other? Need suggestions not just "It's not good" :D
Could jack it up to 4 points, and 8 points for Greater?
it should probably cost more than that yeah. especially since it could stack with primalist and grant rage powers as part of a bloodrage(iffy interpretation but still, on its own its REALLY good)
Or we can simply spend rounds of bloodrage for both the eidolon and the totem rager?
Vote?
1) 4 evo points for bloodrage and 8 points for greater bloodrage
or
2) Spend double rounds of rage to have both the rage eidolon and the totem rager bloodrage simultaneously.
Anything else with the Totem Rager? Noro?
Waking up now...
First, I vote more evo points. Duration is short enough already.
Question: with the aspect, do all bloodline powers automatically work on both?
Wish: I still want the eidolon to deliver some other kind of attack spells. At least limited to one category like ray or line spells.
And lets drop the "in contact" requirement for touch spells. It wouldnt be tactically productive to always go back to the TR for new spells during combat.
And I still dont like the rejuvenate eidolon spells. Can we make Life conduit into a class ability? Its duration is a little less than half the daily duration of the eidolon, so if it was usable once every 2nd round, that didnt seem much of an extra power.
Waking up now...
First, I vote more evo points. Duration is short enough already.
Question: with the aspect, do all bloodline powers automatically work on both?
Wish: I still want the eidolon to deliver some other kind of attack spells. At least limited to one category like ray or line spells.
And lets drop the "in contact" requirement for touch spells. It wouldnt be tactically productive to always go back to the TR for new spells during combat.And I still dont like the rejuvenate eidolon spells. Can we make Life conduit into a class ability? Its duration is a little less than half the daily duration of the eidolon, so if it was usable once every 2nd round, that didnt seem much of an extra power.
I vote for split duration, the ferocious mount and ferocious beast rage powers already use this formula.
The life link summoner ability should fit this bill as it will keep your eidolon alive anyways and i feel a little uncomfortable about using your pet to heal yourself. If we add a rules clause that the the 1st time you summon your eidolon after a full rest (and full use of rage rounds)it has full hit points should fill the role of eidolon healing and still keeping it alive on the battlefield.
As for casting through pet, how about a variation on or tweak to the minor magic and related evolutions that instead of the list provided allows the pet to cast one of the TRs spells, limited by level and to what the TR knows and times per day
The life link summoner ability should fit this bill as it will keep your eidolon alive anyways and i feel a little uncomfortable about using your pet to heal yourself. If we add a rules clause that the the 1st time you summon your eidolon after a full rest (and full use of rage rounds)it has full hit points should fill the role of eidolon healing and still keeping it alive on the battlefield.
That is definitely an option I could live with.
As for casting through pet, how about a variation on or tweak to the minor magic and related evolutions that instead of the list provided allows the pet to cast one of the TRs spells, limited by level and to what the TR knows and times per day
This would be nice for a preparation type caster, giving one or more prepared spells to the eidolon. For a spontaneous one, not really. I like the expansion of deliver spells better here.
#Totem Rager
The rage eidolon does not heal naturally. When a rage eidolon is damaged, its hit points remain unchanged from the last time it was manifested. The only exception to this is if the totem rager has rested to regain his daily rounds of rage eidolon, in which case, when it is first manifested for the day, it is restored to full hit points. If the rage eidolon manifestation ends due to death, it cannot be manifested again until the following day, even if the totem rager has manifestation rounds remaining. In which case, it returns the next day with only half its normal hit points. The rage eidolon manifestation cannot be ended by means of dispel magic, but spells such as dismissal and banishment immediately end the manifestation. When the manifestation ends, the totem rager is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds that the rage eidolon is manifested.
At 7th level, a rage eidolon can use this ability to deliver a spell with a ray effect.
Or we can make it spells that require a ranged touch attack?
Shared Bloodrage (Su): At 6th level, while his rage eidolon is manifested, the totem rager can also gain the benefits of the rage eidolon’s bloodrage (including greater bloodrage and mighty bloodrage) as long as the rage eidolon is or adjacent to him. While his rage eidolon is manifested, he must spend one additional round of rage per round. He can elect not to pay this cost, in which case he does not bloodrage.
If the rage eidolon manifestation ends, the totem rager can choose to maintain this own bloodrage by expending rounds of rage eidolon. These rounds count against his total daily rounds of rage eidolon as normal. When the bloodrage ends, the totem rager is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds his rage eidolon was manifested, plus the number or rounds he was in bloodrage. This ability replaces the bloodline feat gained at 6th level.
Aspect (Su): At 12th level, a totem rager gains the summoner’s aspect ability. This ability replaces the bloodline feat gained at 12th level.
Greater Aspect (Su): At 18th level, a totem rager gains the summoner’s greater aspect ability. This ability replaces the bloodline feat gained at 18th level.
Blood Link (Su): At 3rd level, a totem rager gains the summoner’s life link ability, except that if the rage eidolon moves more than 10,000 feet away from the totem rager, its manifestation immediately ends. This ability replaces blood sanctuary.
1) OK
2) I dont think it makes a great difference, but lets go with ranged touch then
3) Like it, just needs a little more range than adjacent. 10ft per level, perhaps?
4) sure, why not
5) I am not sure that the eidolon can move 10,000 feet in its whole daily existence, nor can I imagine any reason for it to do such a thing, but OK
I think that should do it then, thanks.
# Totem Rager
I sort of agree with Noro on #3 - 10 ft. is better than adjacent. I'm not sure there is much point to 10'/level - it makes it kinda superfluous after 3rd level or so... I would just make it 10 ft full stop. Makes a good reason for foes to try to move them apart... I'm easy though - whatever you guys reckon.
I think expending extra rage rounds for the TR to also rage is a good mechanical concept, but the ability for both the TR AND the Rage Eidolon to rage makes the Rage Eidolon as an expression of rage completely watered down thematically/flavourwise. I really liked the idea that the TR is a warrior whose entire rage is exemplified and embodied by the rage eidolon. But again, its Noro's concept. ;)
# Totem Rager
I sort of agree with Noro on #3 - 10 ft. is better than adjacent. I'm not sure there is much point to 10'/level - it makes it kinda superfluous after 3rd level or so... I would just make it 10 ft full stop. Makes a good reason for foes to try to move them apart... I'm easy though - whatever you guys reckon.
I think expending extra rage rounds for the TR to also rage is a good mechanical concept, but the ability for both the TR AND the Rage Eidolon to rage makes the Rage Eidolon as an expression of rage completely watered down thematically/flavourwise. I really liked the idea that the TR is a warrior whose entire rage is exemplified and embodied by the rage eidolon. But again, its Noro's concept. ;)
It doesnt need the distance limiter really. It could be that as long as the eidolon and the TR are threatening the same creature he also gains the benefits, allowing for some flanking and whatnot
It doesnt need the distance limiter really. It could be that as long as the eidolon and the TR are threatening the same creature he also gains the benefits, allowing for some flanking and whatnot# Totem Rager
I sort of agree with Noro on #3 - 10 ft. is better than adjacent. I'm not sure there is much point to 10'/level - it makes it kinda superfluous after 3rd level or so... I would just make it 10 ft full stop. Makes a good reason for foes to try to move them apart... I'm easy though - whatever you guys reckon.
I think expending extra rage rounds for the TR to also rage is a good mechanical concept, but the ability for both the TR AND the Rage Eidolon to rage makes the Rage Eidolon as an expression of rage completely watered down thematically/flavourwise. I really liked the idea that the TR is a warrior whose entire rage is exemplified and embodied by the rage eidolon. But again, its Noro's concept. ;)
That is even more harsh though. And annoying to refresh/recalculate as it were. But I do like the flavor of it.
It doesnt need the distance limiter really. It could be that as long as the eidolon and the TR are threatening the same creature he also gains the benefits, allowing for some flanking and whatnot# Totem Rager
I sort of agree with Noro on #3 - 10 ft. is better than adjacent. I'm not sure there is much point to 10'/level - it makes it kinda superfluous after 3rd level or so... I would just make it 10 ft full stop. Makes a good reason for foes to try to move them apart... I'm easy though - whatever you guys reckon.
Yes, flanking and some maneuvering while both are raging would be the point here. But I think giving a (short) range is simpler.
1) OK
2) I dont think it makes a great difference, but lets go with ranged touch then
3) Like it, just needs a little more range than adjacent. 10ft per level, perhaps?
4) sure, why not
5) I am not sure that the eidolon can move 10,000 feet in its whole daily existence, nor can I imagine any reason for it to do such a thing, but OK
I think that should do it then, thanks.
2) ranged touch attacks it is.
3) I would say 10 feet, as OSW suggested. That's much like paladin auras, a "within 10 feet" thing.
I think that's it for this MCA! Good work guys!
#Queue
Ape you ready to do your Invective Marshal (Cav/Ska) yet? If so, you're up!
If not we're at the top of the queue with OSW and I again.
Some say sailors are course or that soldiers have no sense of tact or decorum. If so it’s because they have been trained by an Invective Marshal. A more foul string of insults and expletives has not been heard, enough to make a goblin blush or put a ghoul of its lunch. Common among the goblin and orc tribes these rabble-rousers can rouse their comrades to greatness (often from the back). Their common clashes have led some dwarves to take up this route as being surly and dour seems to be a benefit rather than a hindrance. Most Invective marshals belong to the Order of the Lower Ranks but may choose from other orders (if they are allowed in).
Primary: Cavalier
Secondary: Skald
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d10
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The Invective Marshal may select three skald skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills. The Invective Marshal gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Raging Song (Su): An invective marshal learns how to goad his allies to feats of strength and ferocity. This is the same as the skald ability of the same name except as noted here and functions at the same level. His performance is a long string of personal insults and outlandish threats. When he finishes his raging song, any affected allies, but not the Invective Marshal himself, are shaken for a number of rounds equal to the rounds of raging song used. This will stack with the shaken condition from other sources but not the frightened condition. This raging song ability is language dependant. He gains the following performances at the indicated levels.
Insulting Challenge (Ex): At 1st level an Invective Marshall lets the burning bile of his curses drive home his blows. This functions as the challenge ability of a cavalier of his level except it only lasts as long as he can maintain his raging song. Any order abilities or feats that modify the challenge ability of a cavalier modify this ability instead. At 12th level, as long as the target is within the threatened area of the invective marshal, it takes a –2 penalty to its AC from attacks made by anyone other than the invective marshal. This song costs him 2 rounds of raging song for every round he wishes to maintain it.
Song of Marching (Su): At 1st level an Invective Marshall learns the skald ability of the same name.
Inspired Rage (Su): At 2nd level he learns the skald ability of the same name.
Song of Strength (Su): At 6th level he learns the skald ability of the same name.
Dirge of Doom (Su): At 11th level he learns the skald ability of the same name.
Song of the Fallen (Su): At 15th level he learns the skald ability of the same name.
This ability and the various raging songs replace the challenge, mount, 2nd level order ability, cavalier’s charge, mighty charge, demanding challenge and 15th level order abilities of a cavalier.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Sometimes someone will take offence at some of his insults. Consequently an invective marshal has learned to watch his back. This functions as the skald ability of the same name. At 8th level this improves to Improved Uncanny Dodge. This replaces expert trainer and the 8th level order ability.
Tirade (Ex): Just hearing the tirade from the invective marshal is enough to inspire his allies. This functions as the banner ability except as noted here. This ability does not rely on sight but as long as his allies can hear his raging song (whether or not they are affected by the song or not) and within 30 feet they gain the benefits of this ability. This modifies the banner ability of a cavalier.
Rage Power (Ex): At 6th level and every 6 levels afterwards, an invective marshal learns a rage power. This functions as the skald power of the same name. This replaces the bonus feats of a cavalier.
Greater Tirade (Ex): This functions as the greater banner ability of a cavalier except as noted here. As with tirade this ability relies on his allies hearing his raging song (whether they are affected by it or not) and within 30 feet. He can spend a standard action to unleash a particularly vile insult, granting all allies within 60 feet an additional saving throw against any one spell or effect that is targeting them. This save is made at the original DC. Spells and effects that do not allow saving throws are unaffected by this ability. An ally cannot benefit from this ability more than once per day. This modifies the greater banner ability of a cavalier.
Master Skald (Su): This functions exactly as the skald ability of the same name. This replaces Supreme Charge.
Trainers and leaders of the rank and file troops, cavaliers of this order are a vital link between the officer class and the soldiers who will be living or dying depending on their command. They know that it sometimes takes more than a rousing speech to get half-starved and exhausted men to charge into a breach. Being close to death allows them a certain bluntness about their words and actions.
Edicts: Although you may be taken into the confidence of a captain or general, never forget you are a rank and file troop. You do not socialize with those above your station, neither do you seek elevation.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the lower ranks issues a challenge (or uses the insulting challenge raging song), he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge, if the target is an intelligent creature that is either larger than him or on higher ground (including mounted targets if he is not mounted). This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level).
Skills: An order of the lower ranks cavalier adds Perform (Insults) (CHA) and Survival (WIS) to his list of class skills. In addition he may substitute his total skill bonus in Perform (Insults) in place of his skill bonus for Intimidate (CHA) and Handle Animal (CHA)
Order Abilities: A cavalier who belongs to the order of lower ranks gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Quick March (Ex): A cavalier can invigorate his allies to move faster without suffering from fatigue. By expending a swift action each turn (shouting and haranguing), the cavalier invigorates allies within 60 feet, who may hustle for the next hour; this movement counts as a walk (not a hustle) for the purpose of accruing nonlethal damage and fatigue. He may do this once a day at 2nd level, twice a day at 8th level and 3 times a day at 15th level.
Walking Wounded (Ex): At 8th level, a cavalier of the lower ranks can make 2 move actions if he is staggered. If he uses his Quick March ability, his allies can hustle even if they are disabled (at 0 hit points) without taking further damage.
Hold the Line (Ex): At 15th level, the cavalier can make 2 extra attacks of opportunity a turn, but these can only be made against an enemy who tries to move through his threatened space or who tries a bull rush, overrun or trample manoeuvre. He gains a +2 bonus to hit on attacks of opportunity made this way. If he successfully strikes his target, allies who also threaten may make a free attack of opportunity against the same target.
Table: Invective Marshal
Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Insulting Challenge; Order; Raging Song; Song of Marching; Tactician
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Inspired Rage +1(+2Str/Con)
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Inspired Rage +2; Uncanny Dodge
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Tirade
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Rage Power; Song of Strength
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Improved Uncanny Dodge; Inspired Rage +3 (+4 Str/Con)
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Greater Tactician
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Dirge of Doom
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Inspired Rage +4; Rage Power
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Greater Tirade
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Song of the Fallen
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Inspired Rage +5 (+6 Str/Con)
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Master Tactician
18th +18/+8/+13/+3 +11 +6 +6 Rage Power
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Inspired Rage +6; Master Skald
# Invective Marshal
Nice flavor.
A few comments:
* Lots of dead levels in there.
* Raging Song replaces the Order 2nd level ability, but Order of the Lower Ranks has a 2nd level ability?!?!
- I'd also rename the ability to Invective Cry or similar.
- Seeing as the Skald doesn't impart any condition from their Raging Song, I'm not sure the shaken condition is necessary here. Having said that, like the Bloodrager casting in Medium armor the Skald NOT leaving her allies fatigued is completely ridonkulous.
* Without bonus teamwork feats I don't see the point of Tactician - it also feels like Tactician is a thematic double up with Raging Song.
# Invective Marshal
Nice flavor.
A few comments:
* Lots of dead levels in there.
* Raging Song replaces the Order 2nd level ability, but Order of the Lower Ranks has a 2nd level ability?!?!
- I'd also rename the ability to Invective Cry or similar.
- Seeing as the Skald doesn't impart any condition from their Raging Song, I'm not sure the shaken condition is necessary here. Having said that, like the Bloodrager casting in Medium armor the Skald NOT leaving her allies fatigued is completely ridonkulous.
* Without bonus teamwork feats I don't see the point of Tactician - it also feels like Tactician is a thematic double up with Raging Song.
Some dead levels could be moved around sure, give a little here, take a little there. Uncanny dodge could move to 3, song of strength to 7. When you look at the cavalier table and take out the extra challenge a day it has the same number of dead levels.
The order is there to flesh things out a bit. Any cavalier could take the order of the lower ranks if they wanted. Most of the order abilities (which the IM gives them all up) replicate to some degree the raging songs. All the IM gets from the order is the challenge adjustment (they would get the same challenge adjustment if they took another order) and the skills.
The shaken condition was a nod to not making this strictly better than a skald and i thought the shaken condition would be appropriate over fatigued. You have just had an ally telling you are a worthless maggot and to get in there and fight, just one more thing might set you off.
The tactician ability (all 3 levels) come with team work feats. As many as a cavalier gets for free, 3.
I agree with OSW on a number of things.
1) Too many dead levels.
2) You are replacing all the order abilities, so why are you presenting a new Order?
3) Your allies should not become shaken from a the Raging Song, as it a benefit to the allies.
Let me do some reworking, swap adjustments, etc. We've replaced challenge with Bardic Performance before, (which is similar)
#Ninja'd on some of those.
yeah, i have to agree with AL. It's only a boon to allies in that they're fighting harder, but it's probably only because they're scared of the IM, and eventually if the IM is running out of steam, you can bet the allies should be getting scared. Also, doesn't banner/tirade effect people like raging song kinda now?
But are soldier's really scared ("shaken") by their drill instructors/CO's by calling them maggots, etc? I get what you're getting at, but the words and insults they use are meant to motivate, not frighten them.
As to the mechanics, why are we giving the shaken condition when the original version doesn't give a condition. Flavor-wise, sure it might fit, but does it balance anything? I suppose making it so that its not better than the skald is a valid point.
However, I would propose that the Shaken effect only apply to the Inspired Rage song (as it is like the rage ability). Thoughts?
As to the Order, I've reworked swaps, etc, and have no dead levels. Leaving Tactician suite, bonus feats, and the order abilities untouched. Look at the Herald of the March. He's got many performances and some challenge ability left too. The IM is swapping out all of challenge, but keeps a version that costs rounds instead. If we replace the Quick March ability with something else, then its won't be redundant. Maybe granting the Run feat?
But are soldier's really scared ("shaken") by their drill instructors/CO's by calling them maggots, etc? I get what you're getting at, but the words and insults they use are meant to motivate, not frighten them.
no they're not scared he's insulting him, they're scared because he's stopping...
maybe have it not apply if the effect is ended outside of combat.
But are soldier's really scared ("shaken") by their drill instructors/CO's by calling them maggots, etc? I get what you're getting at, but the words and insults they use are meant to motivate, not frighten them.
As to the mechanics, why are we giving the shaken condition when the original version doesn't give a condition. Flavor-wise, sure it might fit, but does it balance anything? I suppose making it so that its not better than the skald is a valid point.
However, I would propose that the Shaken effect only apply to the Inspired Rage song (as it is like the rage ability). Thoughts?
As to the Order, I've reworked swaps, etc, and have no dead levels. Leaving Tactician suite, bonus feats, and the order abilities untouched. Look at the Herald of the March. He's got many performances and some challenge ability left too. The IM is swapping out all of challenge, but keeps a version that costs rounds instead. If we replace the Quick March ability with something else, then its won't be redundant. Maybe granting the Run feat?
To be honest, the shaken condition was the last thing i did to the class and may have been an adjustment too much. It can work either with or without that mechanic. Sure the words can motivate in the short time but in the long term no one like being shouted at to work more.
The extra order is there mostly for fluff. I was trying to work some a version of versatile performance into this mca and realized i could kind of introduce it thru t an order. True this mca gives up all order abilities but keeps the skills and challanege. The order should be balanced enough that any cavalier might want to take it, and also allows the IM to choose another order if desired broadening choice for the player. The order abilites deliberatly (as much as they can) mirror some of the IM abilities
I was thinking being able to challenge on top of raging song was too strong so i made them mutually exclusive to each other
WIth the dead levels, there is not really much you can do with a cavalier which itself has many dead levels :/
Here's the Tweaked Invective Marshal.
Some say sailors are course or that soldiers have no sense of tact or decorum. If so it’s because they have been trained by an Invective Marshal. A more foul string of insults and expletives has not been heard, enough to make a goblin blush or put a ghoul of its lunch. Common among the goblin and orc tribes these rabble-rousers can rouse their comrades to greatness (often from the back). Their common clashes have led some dwarves to take up this route as being surly and dour seems to be a benefit rather than a hindrance. Most Invective marshals belong to the Order of the Lower Ranks but may choose from other orders (if they are allowed in).
Primary Class: Cavalier.
Secondary Class: Skald.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The invective marshal selects three skald skills to add to his class skills, in addition to the normal cavalier class skills, one of which must be Perform (oratory). The invective marshal gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The invective marshal is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, light, and medium), and with shields (except tower shields).
Rousing Cry (Su): At 1st level, an invective marshal learns how to goad his allies to feats of strength and ferocity. He gains the skald’s raging song ability, except his performance consists of a diatribe of personal insults and outlandish threats meant to incite his allies to greater heights of physical stamina and might. This ability replaces mount.
An invective marshal gains the following performances.
Invective Challenge (Su): At 1st level, an invective marshal can use his cry to goad and challenge a foe to combat. The invective marshal chooses one target within sight to challenge, and designates a number of allies (including the invective marshal) equal to his Charisma modifier. The melee attacks of the marshal and his allies deal extra damage whenever the attacks are made against the target of the challenge. This extra damage is equal to 1/2 the invective marshal's level. Challenging a foe requires much of the invective marshal’s concentration. The invective marshal takes a –2 penalty to his Armor Class, except against attacks made by the target of the challenge. The challenge remains in effect for as long as the challenge is maintained, or until the target is dead or unconscious, or until the combat ends. The invective marshal must spend 2 rounds of rousing cry per round to maintain his invective challenge. In addition, whenever the invective marshal uses this song, he includes any effect which is listed in the challenge section described in the invective marshal's order. This song replaces challenge 1/day.
Induced Heroism (Su): At 3rd level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s inspired rage song. Affected allies gain a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution and a +1 morale bonus on Will saving throws, but also take a –1 penalty to AC. For every 4 levels beyond 3rd, the song's bonuses on Will saves increase by 1; the penalty to AC doesn't change. At 11th and 13th levels, the song's bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by 2. (Unlike the barbarian's rage ability, those affected are not fatigued after the song ends.) This song replaces cavalier’s charge, mighty charge, demanding challenge, and challenge 7/day.
Song of Marching (Su): At 4th level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s song of marching song. This song replaces challenge 2/day.
Song of Strength (Su): At 7th level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s song of strength song. This song replaces challenge 3/day.
Dirge of Doom (Su): At 13th level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s dirge of doom song. This song replaces challenge 5/day.
Song of the Fallen (Su) : At 16th level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s song of the fallen song. This song replaces challenge 6/day.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 4th level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s uncanny dodge ability. This ability replaces expert trainer.
Tirade (Ex): At 5th level, an invective marshal’s tirade is an inspiration to his allies and companions. As long as the invective marshal's voice is clearly visible, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made as part of a charge. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. This ability only functions while the invective marshal’s rousing cry ability is in effect. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces banner.
Bonus Feats: This is exactly like the cavalier ability of the same name, except that whenever the invective marshal could choose a bonus feat, he can select a rage power that he qualifies for instead.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 10th level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s improved uncanny dodge ability. This ability replaces challenge 4/day.
Greater Tirade (Ex): At 14th level, the invective marshal's tirade becomes a rallying call to his allies. All allies within 60 feet of the invective marshal that can hear his rousing cry (whether or not they are affected by it) receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and compulsion spells and effects. In addition, while his rousing cry is in effect, the invective marshal can spend a standard action to unleash a particularly offensive tirade, granting all allies within 60 feet an additional saving throw against any one spell or effect that is targeting them. This save is made at the original DC. Spells and effects that do not allow saving throws are unaffected by this ability. An ally cannot benefit from this ability more than once per day. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces greater banner.
Master Skald (Su): At 20th level, an invective marshal gains the skald’s master skald ability. This ability replaces supreme charge.
Table: Invective Marshal
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Invective challenge, order, rousing cry, tactician
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Order ability
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Induced heroism +1 (+2 Str/Con)
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Song of marching, uncanny dodge
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Tirade
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Induced heroism +2, song of strength
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Order ability
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Greater tactician
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Improved uncanny dodge
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Induced heroism +3 (+4 Str/Con)
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus feat
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Dirge of doom
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Greater tirade
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Induced heroism +4, order ability
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Song of the fallen
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Master tactician
18th +18/+8/+13/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Induced heroism +5 (+6 Str/Con)
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Master skald
With the Order abilities available, you can tweak the Order.
#Invective Marshal
Sorry I've not had much to say about this MCA, Cavalier's aren't really my area of expertise, but from first glance it's looking pretty balanced.
Though with rage and rage powers missing, it's difficult to see why this is a Skald focus and not a Bard focus. I suppose Uncanny Dodge, somewhat? There could be a little more Skald flavor just to better define it.
#Invective Marshall
@Tyrannical - rage powers are still there (bonus feat OR rage power) and Rousing Cry/Raging Song works kinda like Skald.
@ Generally: Thematically I'm still seeing a lot of overlap but little distinction between Tactician and Raging Song. Two different command styles. But I guess that's ok. I'd just like to see a Cav/Skald that mulched Raging Song and Tactician together in a blender.
#Invective Marshall
@Tyrannical - rage powers are still there (bonus feat OR rage power) and Rousing Cry/Raging Song works kinda like Skald.
@ Generally: Thematically I'm still seeing a lot of overlap but little distinction between Tactician and Raging Song. Two different command styles. But I guess that's ok. I'd just like to see a Cav/Skald that mulched Raging Song and Tactician together in a blender.
How were you thinking OSW? Could still be done, but I'd need some idea what you were looking for.
Inspired Rage song is still there, just more of an induced heroic rage - thus renaming it Induced Heroism. Still functions like Inspired Rage. And yes, bonus feat OR rage power.
I think we can still tweak Ape's Order just a bit and it'll be good to go. Just need to see what Ape thinks.
#Invective Marshall
@Tyrannical - rage powers are still there (bonus feat OR rage power) and Rousing Cry/Raging Song works kinda like Skald.
@ Generally: Thematically I'm still seeing a lot of overlap but little distinction between Tactician and Raging Song. Two different command styles. But I guess that's ok. I'd just like to see a Cav/Skald that mulched Raging Song and Tactician together in a blender.
How were you thinking OSW? Could still be done, but I'd need some idea what you were looking for.
Inspired Rage song is still there, just more of an induced heroic rage - thus renaming it Induced Heroism. Still functions like Inspired Rage. And yes, bonus feat OR rage power.
I think we can still tweak Ape's Order just a bit and it'll be good to go. Just need to see what Ape thinks.
Id like to see the tactician abilities still there, there is no reason they shouldnt work together, its kinda the reason of this mca. He is less of a leader and more of a driver.
Would renaming bonus feats to rage power (thereby allowing to pick up extra rage powers thru other feat expenditure) be too much?
Here is re-jigged order which should still be a choice for other cavs
Trainers and leaders of the rank and file troops, cavaliers of this order are a vital link between the officer class and the soldiers who will be living or dying depending on their command. They know that it sometimes takes more than a rousing speech to get half-starved and exhausted men to charge into a breach. Being close to death allows them a certain bluntness about their words and actions.
Edicts: Although you may be taken into the confidence of a captain or general, never forget you are a rank and file troop. You do not socialize with those above your station, neither do you seek elevation.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the lower ranks issues a challenge (or uses the insulting challenge raging song), he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge, if the target is an intelligent creature that is either larger than him or on higher ground (including mounted targets if he is not mounted). This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses (to a maximum of +5 at 17th level).
Skills: An order of the lower ranks cavalier adds Perform (Insults) (CHA) and Survival (WIS) to his list of class skills. In addition he may substitute his total skill bonus in Perform (Insults) in place of his skill bonus for Intimidate (CHA) and Handle Animal (CHA)
Order Abilities: A cavalier who belongs to the order of lower ranks gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Quick March (Ex): A cavalier can invigorate his allies to move faster without suffering from fatigue. By expending a swift action each turn (shouting and haranguing), the cavalier invigorates allies within 60 feet, who may hustle for the next hour; this movement counts as a walk (not a hustle) for the purpose of accruing nonlethal damage and fatigue. He may do this once a day at 2nd level, twice a day at 8th level and 3 times a day at 15th level. He also gains endurance as a bonus feat.
Hold the Line (Ex): At 8th level, the cavalier can make 2 extra attacks of opportunity a turn, but these can only be made against an enemy who tries to move through his threatened space or who tries a bull rush, overrun or trample manoeuvre. He gains a +2 bonus to hit on attacks of opportunity made this way. If he successfully strikes his target, allies who also threaten may make a free attack of opportunity against the same target.
Walking Wounded (Ex): At 15th level, a cavalier of the lower ranks gains Die hard and Deathless Initiate as bonus feats even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites (If he already has Die Hard he instead gets Deathless Initiate and Deathless Master as bonus feats instead). He may expend a use of tactician to grant his allies the benefits of the Die Hard, Deathless Initiate (and Deathless Master if possessed) feats instead of teamwork feats. If he expends a use of Quick March he also grants the use of these feats but only to hustle or march for the duration of Quick March.
Id like to see the tactician abilities still there, there is no reason they shouldnt work together, its kinda the reason of this mca. He is less of a leader and more of a driver.
Would renaming bonus feats to rage power (thereby allowing to pick up extra rage powers thru other feat expenditure) be too much?
Here is re-jigged order which should still be a choice for other cavs
** spoiler omitted **...
Then we can leave Tactician as is. As for Rage powers, we can simply ad in that he can choose the Extra Rage Power feat as a normal feat after 6th level.
Like the changes to the Order. Even with the overlap of Quick March and Song of Marching, gives him more movement stuff anyways.
So, that means I think we're done with the IM.
#QUEUE
Next up is OSW, and I.
Oh, BTW, are we liking the one MCA at a time thing, or would we prefer to go back to two? with people missing it's sort of just slipped into one at a time, but we can go to 2 again. Personally I don't mind one.
Like the changes to the Order. Even with the overlap of Quick March and Song of Marching, gives him more movement stuff anyways.
So, that means I think we're done with the IM.
#QUEUE
Next up is OSW, and I.Oh, BTW, are we liking the one MCA at a time thing, or would we prefer to go back to two? with people missing it's sort of just slipped into one at a time, but we can go to 2 again. Personally I don't mind one.
I think two at a time works best. When we had one at a time a while back things went by really slow and there was a lot of waiting around for progress, time that coulda been used for another concept.
It also means that if you don't have any feedback for one class, there's another opportunity to do so with the other, saves feeling useless until the next round of concepts.
I don't mind one at a time, but this thread is more lively and active when there's two in my opinion.
Sounds good. We'll await OSW's new MCA, and in the mean time, here's mine. It's quite polished, as I've had it in the wings for quite a few months, just needed some tweaks when the official ACG came out.
And just so you know, there will be no name change. This is based on an old multiclass character and this is the best name for him I can come up with, plus I like it. :D
Rogues epitomize stealth and legerdemain, and often use these skills to pilfer rare and expensive objects. While this is the most common form of thievery, there are those rogues who possess an affinity for practicing and stealing arcane magic from others. By uniting his deft abilities with arcane power, the spell thief is seen as a figure of puissant and mysterious skill. Unseen and unexpected attacks, whether physical or magical, bolster this image. It is the signature power of a spell thief however, that evokes both dread and admiration–stealing spells and their magical energies from their initial source, whatever it may be. Whether absorbing arcane magic hurled in her direction, studying arcane manuscripts, or quickly and carefully observing spells being cast from afar, the spell thief learns to recreate these energies or unleash them as she sees fit.
Primary Class: Rogue.
Secondary Class: Arcanist.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The spell thief may select three arcanist skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal rogue class skills, one of which must be Spellcraft. The spell thief gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The spell thief is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. She is also proficient with light armor. A spell thief can cast any stealth arcanum spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. A multiclass spell thief still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellbook: A spell thief must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She can’t prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all spell thieves can prepare from memory.
A spell thief begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard/sorcerer spells. At 4th level, she adds two 1st–level spells of her choice to her spellbook. The spell thief also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to her Intelligence modifier to add to the spellbook. At each new spell thief level thereafter, she gains one new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new spell thief level) for her spellbook. At any time, a spell thief can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.
Arcane Reservoir (Su): A spell thief has an innate pool of magical energy that she can draw upon to fuel her arcanist exploits, or to cast and enhance her spells. The spell thief’s arcane reservoir can hold an amount of magical energy equal to twice the spell thief’s level. Each day when preparing spells, the spell thief’s arcane reservoir fills with raw magical energy, gaining a number of points equal to 1 + 1/2 her spell thief level (minimum 0). Any points she had from the previous day are lost. The arcane reservoir can never hold more points that the total mentioned above, points gained in excess of this maximum are lost.
Points from the spell thief’s reservoir are used to fuel many of the spell thief’s powers. By spending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, a spell thief can do one of the following:
• Cast as prepared spell without losing the prepared spell. This expends 1 point from the spell thief’s arcane reservoir per level of the spell.
• Make a single melee attack at her highest attack bonus against a spellcaster (arcane or divine). If the attack is successful, the target takes 1 point of temporary Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage for 1 minute, dependent upon the target’s primary spellcasting ability score. This penalty increases by 1 every 6th levels beyond 1st, up to a maximum of 4 points at 19th level. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack. The spell thief gains a +1 bonus per point of ability damage dealt to all concentration checks, and a +1 bonus per point of ability damage dealt to all skill checks associated with that ability score until the effect ends. Only one use of this ability can be in effect at a time.
• Increase the caster level of a single use magic item (such as potion) or one use of a charged magic item (such as a wand or staff) by 1 for every five levels the spell thief possesses. For example, when imbibing a cure light wounds potion or using a cure light wounds wand that normally heals 2d6 points of damage, the spell thief can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to heal 3d6 points of damage instead.
• Give herself a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells and spell-like effects for 1round.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
In addition, the spell thief can expend one point from her arcane reservoir as a free action, in addition to points expended whenever she casts a spell. If she does, she can choose to increase the caster level of the spell by 1 or increase the DC of the spell by 1. She can expend no more than one point from her reservoir on a given spell in this way.
This ability and cantrips replace trapfinding, improved uncanny dodge, and sneak attack +2d6, +5d6, and +8d6.
Cantrips: A spell thief can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Spell Thief Prepared Spells. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume spell slots or arcane reservoir points. As with her other spells, these spells are not expended when cast.
Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name, except that the spell thief deals 1d6 damage at 1st level and an additional 1d6 damage every three levels thereafter, up to a maximum of 7d6 at 19th level.
Spell Filching (Su): Starting at 2nd level, by making a successful sneak attack against a spellcaster, the spell thief can attempt to learn a spell that spellcaster knows. Select one spell available to the target spellcaster (this must be a spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list); the spell thief then gains the knowledge of this spell for 24 hours, as if it had been prepared. During this time, the spell thief may write it down using the normal rules for copying a spell from another source, but only if the spell is on the spell thief spell list. Once the spell thief has learned it, she may prepare the spell normally. A spell thief can attempt to learn 0th–level spells at 2nd level, 1st–level spells at 5th level, 2nd–level spells at 8th level, 3rd–levels spell at 11th level, and 4th–level spell at 14th level. A spell thief can learn (filch) only one spell in this way at a time. This ability replaces trap sense.
Rogue Talents: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name, except that the spell thief gains a rogue talent at 3rd and every three levels thereafter. A spell thief can choose from the new exploits listed below or one of the following arcanist exploits that she qualifies for in place of a rogue talent: acid jet, consume magical items, counterspell, dimensional slide, face thief, flame arc, force strike, ice missile, illusion catcher, lightning lance, see magic, shadow veil, sonic blast, spell tinkerer, spell disruption. In addition, the spell thief adds the arcanist’s consume spells ability and trapfinding to her list of rogue talents.
Spellcasting: Beginning at 4th level, a spell thief gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, which are drawn from the spell thief spell list. A spell thief must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
A spell thief must prepare her spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, her spells are not expended when they're cast. Instead, she can cast any spell that she has prepared consuming a spell slot of the appropriate level, assuming she hasn't yet used up her spell slots per day for that level.
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the spell thief must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level. The saving throw DC against a spell thief's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the spell thief's Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a spell thief can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Spell Thief under “Spells per Day”. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.
A spell thief may know any number of spells, but the number she can prepare each day is limited. At 1st level, she can prepare four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells each day. At each new spell thief level, the number of spells she can prepare each day increases, adding new spell levels as indicated on Table: Spell Thief Spells Prepared. Unlike the number of spells she can cast per day, the number of spells a spell thief can prepare each day is not affected by her Intelligence score. Feats and other effects that modify the number of spells known by a spellcaster instead affect the number of spells a spell thief can prepare.
A spell thief must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the spell thief decides what spells to prepare and refreshes her available spell slots for the day.
Like a sorcerer, a spell thief can choose to apply any metamagic feats she knows to a prepared spell as she casts it, with the same increase in casting time (see Spontaneous Casting and Metamagic Feats). However, she may also prepare a spell with any metamagic feats she knows and cast it without increasing casting time like a wizard. She cannot combine these options—a spell prepared with metamagic feats cannot be further modified with another metamagic feat at the time of casting (unless she has the metamixing arcanist exploit). Through 1st level and higher, a spell thief has a caster level equal to her spell thief level –3 (minimum 1). This ability replaces rogue talents gained at 4th, 10th, and 16th level.
Advanced Talents: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name, except that the spell thief gains this ability at 12th level. A spell thief can choose one of the following greater exploit she qualifies for instead of an advanced talent whenever she could choose a rogue talent: burning flame, counter drain, dancing electricity, greater spell disruption, icy tomb, lingering acid, siphon spell, spell thief. She can also choose an advanced talent when she selects the Extra Rogue Talent feat. A spell thief treats her level as her rogue or arcanist level for the purpose of qualifying for talents or exploits with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any talent, rogue ability, or arcanist exploit she's chosen.
Greater Spell Access: At 17th level, the spell thief gains access to an expanded spell list. She learns and places 10 spells from the sorcerer/wizard’s spell list into her spellbook as spell thief spells of their sorcerer/wizard level. She gains two of each of the following sorcerer/wizard spells not on the spell thief spell list: 0-level, 1st-level, 2nd-level, 3rd-level, and 4th-level. She can ignore the somatic component of these spells, casting them without the normal chance of spell failure.
Master Spell Thief (Su): At 20th level, a spell thief becomes incredibly dangerous to spellcasters when dealing sneak attack damage. Each time the spell thief deals sneak attack damage against creatures with magical abilities, she can choose one of the following three effects:
The target …
• is affected by a personal antimagic field that affects only the target for a number of rounds equal to the spell thief’s Intelligence modifier,
• immediately become subject to the effects of the expend spell that affects only the target, or
• loses one prepared spell or spell slot (spontaneous casters) of the spell thief’s choice and the energy stored like a ring of spell storing; the spell thief can store up to six levels of spells and then use this stored energy to cast the same spell(s) or any spell she has prepared.
Regardless of the effect chosen, the target receives a Will save to negate the additional effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the spell thief’s level + the spell thief’s Intelligence modifier. Once a creature has been the target of a master spell strike, regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune to that spell thief’s master spell strike for 24 hours. Creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage are also immune to this ability. This ability replaces master strike.
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents complement the spell thief multiclass archetype: Black Market Connections, Distracting Attack, Fast Getaway, Fast Stealth, Finesse Rogue, Guileful Polyglot, Major Magic, Minor Magic, Ninja Trick, Offensive Defense, Quick Disable, Rogue Crawl, and Snap Shot.
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the spell thief archetype: Confounding Blades, Dispelling Attack, Fast Tumble, Hide in Plain Sight, Skill Mastery, Thoughtful Reexamining, and Unwitting Ally.
Table: Spell Thief
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Arcane reservoir, cantrips, sneak attack 1d6 — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Evasion, spell filching (0th) — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Rogue talent — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Sneak attack +2d6, uncanny dodge 1 — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Spell filching (1st) 1 — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Rogue talent 1 — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6 1 1 — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Improved uncanny dodge, spell filching (2nd) 1 1 — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Rogue talent 2 1 — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Sneak attack +4d6 2 1 1 —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Spell filching (3rd) 2 1 1 —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Advanced talents, rogue talent 2 2 1 —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Sneak attack +5d6 3 2 1 1
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Spell filching (4th) 3 2 1 1
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Rogue talent 3 2 2 1
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Sneak attack +6d6 3 3 2 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Greater spell access 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Rogue talent 4 3 2 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Sneak attack +7d6 4 3 3 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Master spell thief 4 4 3 2
Table: Spell Thief Spells Prepared
Class Spells Prepared
Level 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st 4 — — — —
2nd 5 — — — —
3rd 5 — — — —
4th 6 2 — — —
5th 6 3 — — —
6th 6 4 — — —
7th 6 4 2 — —
8th 6 4 3 — —
9th 6 5 4 — —
10th 6 5 4 2 —
11th 6 5 4 3 —
12th 6 6 5 4 —
13th 6 6 5 4 2
14th 6 6 5 4 3
15th 6 6 6 5 4
16th 6 6 6 5 4
17th 6 6 6 5 4
18th 6 6 6 6 5
19th 6 6 6 6 5
20th 6 6 6 6 5
The following new arcanist exploits are restricted to the Spell Thief multiclass archetype.
Borrow Spell (Su): The spell thief can borrow one prepared spell or spell known from an allied arcane spellcaster by expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir. The spell thief learns a single spell of a level she can cast of her choice for 1 minute. This spell must be chosen from an ally’s list of currently prepared spells or list of spells known, and must be on the sorcerer/wizard spell list. If the spell thief does not cast the spell within the allotted time period, the ability expires and the spell is lost. The spell thief must then expend an additional point from her arcane reservoir to relearn the spell or borrow a different spell of her choice from the same ally or another allied spellcaster.
Consume Spells (Su): The spell thief gains the arcanist’s consume spells ability.
Deadly Sneak Attack (Ex): The spell thief can increase the damage of a single sneak attack by infusing her weapon with arcane energy. By expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a swift action, the spell thief deals sneak attack damage as a rogue equal to her level. The spell thief must be at least 6th level to select this exploit.
The following new greater exploits are restricted to the Spell Thief multiclass archetype.
Greater Filching (Su): The spell thief can steal a spell from a spellcaster and store its potential. By expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, a spell thief that makes a successful sneak attack against a spellcaster (arcane or divine) can force her target to lose one prepared spell or spell slot (spontaneous casters) of the spell thief’s choice. The spell energy is then stored like a minor ring of spell storing. The spell thief can store up to three levels of spells and then use this stored energy to cast the same spell(s) or any spell she has prepared.
Resourceful Casting: The spell thief’s ability to cast spells using her arcane reservoir becomes more efficient. Whenever she expends arcane reservoir points to cast a spell, she expends a number of points equal to 1/2 the spell’s level (minimum 1).
Spell thieves gain access to the following spells.
0th-Level Spell Thief Spells—arcane mark, detect magic, detect poison, ghost sound, haunted fey aspect, mage hand, open/close, prestidigitation, read magic.
1st-Level Spell Thief Spells—alarm, animate rope, blend, bungle, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, disguise self, endure elements, erase, expeditious retreat, featherfall, floating disk, hold portal, identify, illusion of calm, jump, lighten object, mage armor, magic aura, magic missile, magic weapon, mirror strike, moment of greatness, shadow weapon, shield, sleep, true strike, unprepared combatant, vanish, ventriloquism, voice alteration.
2nd-Level Spell Thief Spells—acid arrow, alter self, arcane lock, blur, book ward, cat’s grace, codespeak, darkness, disguise other, eagle’s splendor, fiery shuriken. flaming sphere, fog cloud, fox’s cunning, hideous laughter, invisibility, knock, levitate, locate object, mirror image, misdirection, pilfering hand, protection from arrows, protective penumbra, resist energy, rope trick, see invisibility, shatter, spider climb, web.
3rd-Level Spell Thief Spells—ablative barrier, arcane sight, blink, daylight, deep slumber, discern value, dispel magic, displacement, draconic reservoir, flame arrow, fly, gaseous form, haste, healing thief, improve trap, invisibility sphere, keen edge, lightning bolt, locate weakness, magic weapon (greater), nondetection, pellet blast, prehensile pilfer, protection from energy, secret page, shadow projection, shadow step, shrink item, tongues, twilight knife, water breathing.
4th-Level Spell Thief Spells—arcane eye, ball lightning, create holds, darkvision (greater), detect scrying, dimension door, echolocation, fire shield, fire trap, illusionary wall, invisibility (greater), mislead, passwall, project image, resilient sphere, scrying, shadow walk, shout, stoneskin, telepathic bond, veil.
Invective Marshal, Spirit Knight and Totem Rager are all up on the wiki.
Sounds good. We'll await OSW's new MCA, and in the mean time, here's mine. It's quite polished, as I've had it in the wings for quite a few months, just needed some tweaks when the official ACG came out.
And just so you know, there will be no name change. This is based on an old multiclass character and this is the best name for him I can come up with, plus I like it. :D
** spoiler omitted **...
Im assuming its only the maths that is out on arcane res boosting caster level on the example of wand of cure light wounds/potion.
Resourceful casting exploit and consume spells exploit doesnt look right. Burn a 2nd level spell for 2 AR and cast a 2 2nd levels spells for 2 AR?
Instead of storing energy like a ring of spellstoring, why not use the existing mechanic of gaining AR and using to cast spells? More options but maybe less exotic spells (divine and the like)
But does look nice and balanced :)
#Spell Thief
I like the look of this class, interesting to see there's distinction between this class and Mage Bane when dealing with these similar concepts and classes.
I would wager however that being restricted to stealing only spells from the wizard/sorcerer spell list may be a handicap to this class, I would say than for fairness they can steal any spell so long as it's Arcane in nature?
Im assuming its only the maths that is out on arcane res boosting caster level on the example of wand of cure light wounds/potion.
Resourceful casting exploit and consume spells exploit doesnt look right. Burn a 2nd level spell for 2 AR and cast a 2 2nd levels spells for 2 AR?
Instead of storing energy like a ring of spellstoring, why not use the existing mechanic of gaining AR and using to cast spells? More options but maybe less exotic spells (divine and the like)
But does look nice and balanced :)
1) What do you mean is the math off? I took a look at the wording and made a few tweaks to make it more specific.
2) Changed the resourceful casting exploit. Now it costs 1 arcane reservoir point less (minimum 1) to cast a prepared spell. So 1 for a 1st or 2nd level spell, 2 for a 3rd, and 3 for a 4th.
3) Actually, I like that. Don't know why I didn't think of that myself. I also took into account Tyrannical's suggestion. Originally, I didn't want the spell thief to have access to certain spells, such as cure light wounds, etc., that bards gain. However, I think I've found a good middle ground, that allows the Spell Thief to use such spells, but not actually gain them as part of her normal spells. As long as a spell is on an arcane caster's list, he can steal it. I don't want him getting access to other spells that are found only on divine lists.
Here's the revised Greater Filching exploit.
Won't be able to post till late tonight Oz-time
Whenever you can.
#Spell Thief
If it casts spells as an arcanist, what is the point of this ability?
Cast as prepared spell without losing the prepared spell. This expends 1 point from the spell thief’s arcane reservoir per level of the spell.
Also, are all the reservoir uses (attack, item use and save bonus) available at 1st level? Seems a bit steep to me. The original arcanist has only one option to start with there.
wand of cure light wounds with a caster level of 3rd (heals 3d6+3 points of damage) to a caster level of 5th instead (heals 5d6+5 points of damage).
#Spell Thief
If it casts spells as an arcanist, what is the point of this ability?
Cast as prepared spell without losing the prepared spell. This expends 1 point from the spell thief’s arcane reservoir per level of the spell.Also, are all the reservoir uses (attack, item use and save bonus) available at 1st level? Seems a bit steep to me.
1) Actually it should read...
"Cast a prepared spell without using a spell slot of the same level. This expends 1 point from the spell thief’s arcane reservoir per level of the spell."
This allows him to cast his prepared spells without expending an associated spell slot.
2) Why is it steep? He has NO use for his arcane reservoir otherwise. The abilities are loosely based on the monk's ki pool.
Only 3 of the abilities can be used (increase CL of magic items, melee attack, and bonus to save). The others can't be used until 4th level (increase spell DC and casting a spell without expending the slot).
3) Oh yeah! My bad. I forgot it was just the bonus hp that increase, not the number of die.
Actually, upon thinking about it, I'm open to possible changes to the three abilities (increase CL of magic items, melee attack, and bonus to save)
The mental ability damage doesn't really fit the theme of the MCA. So any suggestion on a replacement would be good.
A) Thought about changing this to expending 1 point to make a single sneak attack (standard action + swift action to expend point) even if the target isn't flat-footed. Perhaps such a thing should cost 1 point per sneak attack damage die?
B) The +4 save bonus could be kept. It's not bad. Or make it an immediate action, and either a flat +4 bonus of bonus equal to her Cha modifier to a single saving throw?
Though we could change it to spending 1 point to gains a bonus to a single skill check?
OR even make it the trapfinding ability, but costing a point each time, as she'd be using her arcane sense vs. her roguish sense?
C) I don't mind the ability to increase the effect of a magical item. But perhaps we could change it to spending AR points as charges. Depending upon items (wand, helm, staff, etc.) she'd spend the number of AR points equal to the number of charges required to activate the item's ability without actually expending the charges. Or is that already an exploit?
I'd like to get things more in tune with the flavor of the MCA. So I'm open to suggestions.
I am just saying that it shouldnt get more reservoir-based abilities than a starting arcanist. Choosing one of these should suffice at 1st level. The others can be available at higher levels. Perhaps those levels where the sneak damage was swapped out from, or they can appear as talents/exploits.
The attack power could modify sneak attack with elemental effects. That fits the style of both classes.
The AR = charge idea for magic items sounds good.
I've changed Arcane reservoir to this.
Points from the spell thief’s reservoir are used to fuel many of the spell thief’s powers. At 1st level, by spending 1 point from her arcane reservoir, a spell thief can gain a bonus to Stealth skills checks, Perception skill checks made to locate traps, and to Disable Device skill checks equal to 1/2 her spell thief level (minimum +1). A spell thief can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.
In addition, at 4th level or higher, the spell thief can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a free action, in addition to points expended whenever she casts a spell. If she does, she can choose to increase the caster level of the spell by 1 or increase the DC of the spell by 1. She can expend no more than one point from her reservoir on a given spell in this way.
This ability and cantrips replace trapfinding and sneak attack +2d6, +5d6, and +8d6.
Then I added these as normal exploits.
Charge Repository (Su): The spell thief can use his arcane reservoir to power magic items with charges, such as wands, staves, and so on. By expending 1 point from his arcane reservoir per charge required to activate a specific item or power, he can activate the item without expending a charge (or charges) from the item. For example, a spell thief could expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to activate a single use of a wand of chill touch, or 3 points to activate the wall of fire effect from a staff of fire. This exploit has no affect on single use items like potions.
Mental Strike (Su): The spell thief can spend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to make a single melee attack at her highest attack bonus against a spellcaster (arcane or divine). If the attack is successful, the target takes 1 point of temporary Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage for 1 minute, dependent upon the target’s primary spellcasting ability score. This penalty increases by 1 every 6th levels beyond 1st, up to a maximum of 4 points at 19th level. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack. Only one use of this exploit can be in effect at a time.
Spell Reserve (Su): The spell thief can cast a prepared spell without using a spell slot of the same level. This expends 1 point from the spell thief’s arcane reservoir per level of the spell.
With these additions, I also changed Resourceful Casting to Resourceful Reservoir.
Resourceful Reservoir (Su): The spell thief’s ability to cast spells or activate charged magic items using her arcane reservoir becomes more efficient. Whenever she expends arcane reservoir points to cast a spell or activate a single use of a charged magic item, she reduces the number of point required to cast the spell or activate the item’s ability by 1 (minimum 1).
Looking good, like the changes
@Elghinn - Sorry, fell asleep. Feel free to bump the next person up, I'll try again tonight. What combos are on my list? I know there is the Hunter/Slayer, but what else did I diberatenerise?