Skald is definitely not an option. I don't like the class and wouldn't take it even if it was allowed.
@GM_Solspiral: While interesting, most things you suggest are beyond me sources.
@Pendagast: After being brutally slaughered in melee twice already (yes, the cleric already was my second character), I'm not willing to go with a squishy melee character like a Bard.
And Rage Prophets sound interesting but they just don't work. It would be more effctive to just dip a level of barbarian or two on a oracle or cleric than to go rage prophet. Also, they are somewhat squishy, too and their healing lacks behind too much to make up for it.
Unless I go for one of the more whimsical builds like Mystic Theurge, my current favorites would be
- Lion Shaman druid. Focused on summoning kitties.
- Bad touch cleric of Groetus, probablay Madness domain and either chaos or darkness.
- Life and death Oracle. Life mystery, but otherwise focused on necromancy spells with greater spell focus and reach spell. Also summoning for good measure.
Does the Alchemist have the Infusion discovery?
Seems that if the Alchemist would take that, it would be able to do a fair amount of the support role quite well.
Focus mostly on formulas that are healing and buff. Cures, Delay Poison, Resist Energy, etc. Be good to have shield as well.
At the beginning of the day leave most of the extract slots open. Mix up a shield infusion for the barbarian, a delay poison extract, maybe a see invisible extract. When you get information on what the next battle is, quick mix the proper infusions. In battle, bomb away. After battle, look at what is needed and mix it up. Mix up another batch of the things that got used.
The alchemist gets a fair number of buff abilities on their 'spell list' that they can make into infusions. They can do some things that a wizard can't, such as the infusion of Shield that would allow the barbarian in your group to get a shield.
If the alchemist adapts a little bit, that would give you more room to do battle field control and supplementary support.
He doesn't have infusion. No idea as to whether he wants to pick it or not. As I said, the other players aren't exactly planning ahead much so he probably couldn't tell even if I asked. In general, bombers use many discoveries to improve their bombs so I don't expect him to get it any time soon.
Hmm, I wouldn't call the arcane duelist bard particularly squishy - especially later on when they pick up medium armor they aren't far from the cleric or druid. Still, for now I'd suggest the druid - it's both close-ish to the previous character and different enough to be refreshing. It doesn't have quite as much healing as the others but still has a fair amoung, and compensates with utility and pets.
I didn't see any mention of what level you guys are. If it's 7+, and it's allowed, the Leadership feat might be a great option for you (or anyone else in the group). At most your cohort will be two levels lower than you, but a healbot Oracle or somesuch is a great role for a cohort, leaving you to play pretty much whatever you actually want without having to typecast yourself. :)
You could also consider a non-Life Oracle and try to be more tanky. Several mysteries get an armor-boosting revelation that starts about as good as mage armor but scales up; and some (like Lore) get to use CHA for AC and Ref instead of Dex. I'm also fond of Heavens and wringing as much use out of Color Spray as you possibly can, tho this can be a bad option in the long run.
Don't forget Oracle's Burden is a great debuff, depending on what curse you choose. Deafness can really hurt enemy casters, here. (Wrecker isn't from your allowed sources, and is really harsh to yourself, but awesome with Oracle's Burden.)
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Unless I go for one of the more whimsical builds like Mystic Theurge, my current favorites would be
- Lion Shaman druid. Focused on summoning kitties.
- Bad touch cleric of Groetus, probablay Madness domain and either chaos or darkness.
- Life and death Oracle. Life mystery, but otherwise focused on necromancy spells with greater spell focus and reach spell. Also summoning for good measure.
Be a Shaman. Do it. It's pretty much a better Cleric. You trade a good Fort save for actual class features and 2 more skill points. Not to mention a Human/Half Orc/Half Elf favored class bonus that lets you add cleric spells to your spells known and a Lore Hex that will let you add Arcane Spells to your list (grab it with Wandering Hex). Don't forget to take the Spirit Talker feat so you have another flexible Hex of any Spirit's list.
Alternatively, if you are really dead set on having Life Oracle, be a Spirit Guide Life Oracle. Then you can make your spirit a Life spirit and get 1+CHA and 3+CHA Channeling pools. Combine with Variant Channeling Rulership for almost as much Daze as Dazing Spell.
@Zaboom - as far as I can tell it was the end of the first Rise of the Runelords book, so I expect it to be lvl 4.
@Anzyr: That's not the Shaman Class but the animal shaman archetype of the druid.
Sources allowed are still only Core and APG, so no "real" shaman, no spirit guide Oracle, no Variant Channeling. ;)
@Zaboom! I died at level 4, new character will come in at 5 as the party will level up shortly anyway. No clue about Leadership. I'm pretty sure it's not allowed and I personally do't like it.
Surprisingly, whenever I try to build an Oracle, I come back to the Life Mystery. Even when I'm not even trying to build a healer. The only other mystery I'd consider is Battle. Most other have too few worthwhile revelations and/or mystery spells.
@The Shaman: Medium armor is still distant future for an arcane duelist. Without it, his AC isn't great and he has to rely on his already-too-few spells for defense. Leaves too little for other things if I want to be at the frontline.
I'm just going through all possible builds in Herolab to see how they turn out at my current and a later level. Maybe that'll hepl me decide.
It seems unfair you seem to want someone to heal and fight, and who isn't a battle oracle or fighting cleric.
There's a ranger in the party that could use melee weapons if need be. Perhaps not the most efficient way that character fights, yet likely better off than the 1/2 or 3/4 BAB characters. The ranger sounds like the PC that should be backup front line when enemies close ranks.
Life oracle is an awesome healer, yet tends only to stay in that one singular role.
Witch might be good for healing as well as debuffing opponents before reaching your front line. Never underestimate the effect of your opponents having a 50% chance of not acting in combat (Bestow curse). Again, this means you will not be a combat person. Your job as witch is to cripple opponents with penalties while healing your team when it is needed. Being able to summon multiple low level monsters might also provide a speed bump here and there. When using SM2 to summon 1d3 Summon Monster 1 creatures, they won't last long, yet the hit they take means your PCs did not get hit by the attack.
Granted, bards don´t have awesome AC at that level. Mind you, if they are not using a two-hander to thwack at the enemy, they have 0 problems strapping a small shield to their left hand and likely outdo barbarians at that level :)
But yes, for healing and tanking combination that is not an oracle or a cleric (so it offers some variety) a druid can do a good job. Personally, I like the base class enough, though a shaman is sometimes a good choice.
BTW, if you are worried about AC, I would advise the Bear Shaman over the Lion one. The speed boost is lower, but the toughness aspect helps. Do note it is a natural armor bonus, so afaik it stacks with enhancement bonuses to natural armor like Barkskin. Granted, your pets don´t look quite so dashing for the picture, but a bear cavalry charge is hilarious in its own right :)
Do you want to TANK or tank?
Dwarven cleric w/travel and liberation domains. Is a blazing 40 movement rate...all day (thanks to the interaction of dwarf/encumberance and the longstrider domain spell.
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Going to be honest. In rise of the runelords your going to need more then just ac to live.
Your going to need a tank with LAYERED defeses and your going to need some battlefield control.
Just trying to out heal the incoming damage from RotRLs enemies with an unbalanced group is just going to lead to more deaths. This AP Is a player killer. You have to be serious and have a balanced team.
Your wanting a frontliner that can heal....your essentially wanting another hammer who can attempt to be an arm.
Your group is lacking both an anvil and a arm.
I honestly cant suggest anything other then early entry Mystic. Mostly because your limited to CRB and APG.
Thanks again for all the input! Really appreciate it!
KestrelZ: Well we died (TPK) a few sessions before my cleric died. Two players said they wanted to play an Alchemist and a Ranger. Neither one could decide if melee or range. Somehow both ended up at range. I'd definitely have an easier time chosing if either one of them was build for melee.
Witch is out. My first character was a Witch. Didn't life to see level 3, though, due to aforementioned TPK.
Shaman: I'm not too worried about AC. Just want to stand between the ranged guys and the enemies and life to tell the tale. Also, the best thing about the animal shaman is the standard action SNA, and bears pale in comparison to cats.
Donagar: See above. I don't need the most resilient character. Just enough to survive a couple of rounds toe to toe with the enemy, standing there hoping that the party kills it fast enough.
Fruian Thistlefoot: I know Runelords quite well as I'm also a GM in a Runelords-group (that's currently on hiatus, unfortunately). I know it's brutal. Our GM also doesn't buff the enemies (as far as I can tell) but plays them to their utmost efficiency, because we are 5 players. I'm not sure the party's gonna go very far without the next TPK. Tactics are poor overall (the gnome sorc trying to TUMBLE away from a strong grappler instead of using withdraw was a highlight).
A pure caster like the MT might be a great idea in theory. But he's not going far if the rest of the party can't protect him. I'll still give him anouther thought. Forge-wise he's definiely the right choice.
Sounds like your party has some issues working together. I'm not terribly familiar with the AP, but I don't think you'll be able to make one character who can shore up all of the party's weaknesses, tank, heal, and otherwise save the day -- all at level 5.
At that level, if you're going caster, I'd stick to memorized casters which get third level spells at 5th level. Since your first character was a Witch, and the last one was a Cleric, that kinda leaves Druid as your best choice. Downside being that Druids are the worst of the three as dedicated healers, upside being that they can use the cure wands, cast some handy spells, and tank pretty effectively.
If you go with an animal companion you get an extra body between you and the bad guys, plus you get Wild Shape for what, 5 hours 1/day at your level? (Been a while since I've played a Druid.) Spells like Entangle can help keep the baddies away from your ranged guys, too.
In any case, at level 5 I'd avoid Mystic Theurge. It takes a long time to feel worthwhile as an MT, and you don't even get your first level until 7th.
MT would be early entry via the Trickery Domain. So I'd already be Cleric 1/Wizard 3/MT 1. Only one level to go to get 3rd level Wizard spels.
Ok, assuming I'm going with the MT, how exactly would you build it? I need additional traits for Magic Knack and sooner or later I want Spell Penetration. Beyond that, I'm at a losss.
Here's what I got so far:
Human Cleric of Calistria(?) 1 / Wizard 3 / MT 1
Str 8 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 20 Wis 14 Cha 10
Arcane School: Admixture
Opposite schools: Divination, Necromancy
Arcane Bond: Item (Ring)
Domains: Trickery, Luck
Feats: Additional Traits (Magic Knack [cleric], Reactionary)
So I got 3 more feats. Might go with Craft Wondrous and I guess Improved Initiative is always great for a caster. Spell Penetration can wait till level 7 or 9. Despite only being one level behind, I can't build the MT as I would a pure wizard because I lack the bonus feats. What else to go for? Augment summoning? Greater Spell focus?
Domain options: I need Trickery, but I could get another second domain. I think the curse subdomain would work. I'm also considering going with Sivanah as my deity, taking Insanity or Magic.
School options: I like Admixture because it makes occasional blasting somewhat possible. Foresight would be nice, too, but I hate being stuck with Divination spells. Anything else that might work?
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Ill be honest bladting is not what you want to be doing with your spells. You have a blaster sorceror and plenty of damage dealers. I would oppose evocation and enchantment. Necromancy has great debuffed that have effects even if they pass the save. Enchantment is a school that if they fail its wonderful. If they pass the save the entire spell does absolutely nothing to help.
You could oppose abjuration if you wanted to snd use the cleric list to get your protection spells.
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I'm not a Skald, but I play one in Iron Gods.
No one, and I mean NO ONE in the party ever wants or chooses the inspired rage.
OMG -1 AC totally Biff! and they shun it like the plague.
(that and you'd think they al want to use cha, int or Dex based skills DURING combat)
They are free to drop in and out of the song as they please but NOPE, don't want it.Bards are Heroes, Skalds are an annoying nuisance.
Don't take skald.
I want to thank you for this feedback. I've been trying to decide whether to go Skald or Bard with one of my upcoming characters, and I think that I will likely go Bard based on this. My question was whether the rage powers would be cool enough for the melee players to want to join in (I knew that spell casters would not.)
Skalds get heavier armor, more weapon choices and spell kenning. However, if the rest of the party won't accept the buff, I'd rather go bard for the skill points and full party coverage of bardic buffs.
Hmm