It's criminal negligence in a civilian's case because he is authorized neither to use a flashbang, nor to have raided said house.
It's criminal negligence in a civilian's case because he is authorized neither to use a flashbang, nor to have raided said house.
It's an abstracted concept. People (civilians) in general do a variety of things all the time for which they feel terrible and have to live with it for the rest of their lives. If that also brings physical harm onto others, they also go to jail.
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What hurts the system more, angry internet posters or you?
I wasn't the "you" that this question was posed to, but I read it as "What hurts the system more, angry internet posters or good cops disengaged from the process?"
The answer is both. It becomes a self-feeding loop. A good police officer sees the distrust of the public, poorly directed, when a police officer does something questionable. They might take it personally, seeing it as directed at all police officers. This sets up an us vs. them idea. Then, if a police officer in their area is accused of doing something questionable, they draw together and defend the officer, which presents an us vs. them stance to the public. This upsets civilians, who go online to rant about police.
We will never have a (free) world in which people don't complain publicly about things theydislike, or problems they perceive. Likewise we'll never have a world in which nobody does their job well, but doesn't engage in in all issues surrounding it. Not every person who would like police to have extra judicial scrutiny would rather live in anarchy. Not every police officer condones or tolerates ends justify the means approaches. Hyperbole on either side doesn't help anyone, except those who profit from keeping the cycle going.
I should have added we used the front porch regularly. My fault for omitting that.I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.back when I lived in PA, we never used the front door. Noone did. We all used the side door or the back door. The front door was a mud room/rumpus room that was always in disuse in every house I visited save one. It may have been the same case here."When we did surveillance on the house, there were two guards standing guard at the door ... like they weren't letting anybody in," Terrell said. "We did make the buy out of the house. We took that information, along with our other information, and went to see the judge and got a warrant."Apparently that door had been in use and guarded during the day. The playpen was placed in front of sometime afterwards.
With armed guards regularly opening and closing the door that you didn't use?
We never used my Grandmother's front door either, but I also never saw anyone open it, or use the front porch, nor was anything blocking it's use.
What hurts the system more, angry internet posters or you?I wasn't the "you" that this question was posed to, but I read it as "What hurts the system more, angry internet posters or good cops disengaged from the process?"
It was in response to his deleted post in which he stated he actively encourages police officers to leave the force.
Then wouldn't you be presuming the room is occupied?Thus the use of NON-LETHAL force.
It was a terrible mistake. But you know what? S@~$ happens. All the good intentions, professional training, and preperation in the world doesn't change that fact....sometimes s$%* just happens.
The guy that threw the flash-bang will have to live with that for the.rest of his life, despite the fact that he did.nothing wrong. Do we really need to throw more on top of that?
the department paying 5 he hospital bills. An apology. That's all I would ask for in that case. I think if that happened we would be seeing little outcry.
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.What hurts the system more, angry internet posters or you?Angry Internet posters. It does more to burn out good cops than anything else. You can say it doesn't. I've seen first hand that it absolutely does. Again, we aren't going to come to a compromise on this because you aren't going to believe what I say regardless of how much I've seen it happen over the ten years I was on the police force. I'm trying to talk my friends out of the job because I don't want them hurt or dying for people who don't appreciate the sacrifice they are willing to give. Again, I wouldn't mind having a beer and discussing face to face, unfortunately, that isn't an option so I choose to take my wife on a date and a nice dinner than continuing to have a conversation here where nothing is going to be solved and no one is going to change their opinion. It is what it is. Good luck.
so, someone says something mean to you, doesn't appreciate you, even simply criticizes you, it means they deserve anarchy as a result? No police services, fire department, anything? Because they don't toe the line and kneel before nebuchandezzar? That's nonsense. People have a right to opine, and it isn't well rounded conversation that helps us grow if we all just agree with you. Good manners help when disagreeing, mind. But no, you're in the wrong here, former officer, and the more good cops you encourage to quit because they do not get their free apple from a groveling shop owner, a kiss from a swooning damsel, or whatever else they consider respect, then you are a part of the problem. It takes more than just better hiring practices (which to me sounds like a real eagerness to wash ones hands of any responsibility with respect to fellow officers). It takes good cops being encouraged to stay despite public opinion turning against them, and making a genuine effort to win people over, not simply demanding respect just because of the uniform. Give respect to get respect. And yes, bad cops being brought down belongs on the front pages. So do hero cops saving lives. There is room in the world for both, and both stories deserve to be told.
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OTOH, "It's just a few bad apples" is the perennial cry of corrupt organizations throughout history.
Many who use the "It's just a few bad apples" saying forget the "spoils the whole barrel" part. Yeah, you may start off with a barrel of perfect apples and only one or two bad. But if the bad apples aren't removed quickly, they will spoil/infect their neighbor apples, and pretty soon the whole barrel is rotten.
I'm not picking a side in the thread; I'm just posting to quibble about that particular phrase's use in general. :)
Pillbug, I'll marry you just for knowing the whole phrase. (Full disclosure, I am a bad apple, and will most definitely "ruin your bunch.")
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so, someone says something mean to you, doesn't appreciate you, even simply criticizes you, it means they deserve anarchy as a result? No police services, fire department, anything? Because they don't toe the line and kneel before nebuchandezzar? That's nonsense. People have a right to opine, and it isn't well rounded conversation that helps us grow if we all just agree with you. Good manners help when disagreeing, mind. But no, you're in the wrong here, former officer, and the more good cops you encourage to quit because they do not get their free apple from a groveling shop owner, a kiss from a swooning damsel, or whatever else they consider respect, then you are a part of the problem. It takes more than just better hiring practices (which to me sounds like a real eagerness to wash ones hands of any responsibility with respect to fellow officers). It takes good cops being encouraged to stay despite public opinion turning against them, and making a genuine effort to win people over, not simply demanding respect just because of the uniform. Give respect to get respect. And yes, bad cops being brought down belongs on the front pages. So do hero cops saving lives. There is room in the world for both, and both stories deserve to be told..What hurts the system more, angry internet posters or you?Angry Internet posters. It does more to burn out good cops than anything else. You can say it doesn't. I've seen first hand that it absolutely does. Again, we aren't going to come to a compromise on this because you aren't going to believe what I say regardless of how much I've seen it happen over the ten years I was on the police force. I'm trying to talk my friends out of the job because I don't want them hurt or dying for people who don't appreciate the sacrifice they are willing to give. Again, I wouldn't mind having a beer and discussing face to face, unfortunately, that isn't an option so I choose to take my wife on a date and a nice dinner than continuing to have a conversation here where nothing is going to be solved and no one is going to change their opinion. It is what it is. Good luck.
There's a differance between hero entitlement and asking for a little respect and basic deceny. It's all too easy to stop helping people, to stop being a hero, and start being human when the people you're trying to protect and help revile and hate you.
the department paying 5 he hospital bills. An apology. That's all I would ask for in that case. I think if that happened we would be seeing little outcry.Then wouldn't you be presuming the room is occupied?Thus the use of NON-LETHAL force.
It was a terrible mistake. But you know what? S@~$ happens. All the good intentions, professional training, and preperation in the world doesn't change that fact....sometimes s$%* just happens.
The guy that threw the flash-bang will have to live with that for the.rest of his life, despite the fact that he did.nothing wrong. Do we really need to throw more on top of that?
I think that's what drew the ire and the fire. I think many can understand officers following the written procedures and orders.
However, refusing to own up and pay for the injuries to obvious innocents (anyone claiming a child that young as criminal needs to have their head examined), I think that's why you see VERY few that aren't OUTRAGED at the county's behavior in this manner.
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...so, someone says something mean to you, doesn't appreciate you, even simply criticizes you, it means they deserve anarchy as a result? No police services, fire department, anything? Because they don't toe the line and kneel before nebuchandezzar? That's nonsense. People have a right to opine, and it isn't well rounded conversation that helps us grow if we all just agree with you. Good manners help when disagreeing, mind. But no, you're in the wrong here, former officer, and the more good cops you encourage to quit because they do not get their free apple from a groveling shop owner, a kiss from a swooning damsel, or whatever else they consider respect, then you are a part of the problem. It takes more than just better hiring practices (which to me sounds like a real eagerness to wash ones hands of any responsibility with respect to fellow officers). It takes good cops being encouraged to stay despite public opinion turning against them, and making a genuine effort to win people over, not simply demanding respect just because of the uniform. Give respect.What hurts the system more, angry internet posters or you?Angry Internet posters. It does more to burn out good cops than anything else. You can say it doesn't. I've seen first hand that it absolutely does. Again, we aren't going to come to a compromise on this because you aren't going to believe what I say regardless of how much I've seen it happen over the ten years I was on the police force. I'm trying to talk my friends out of the job because I don't want them hurt or dying for people who don't appreciate the sacrifice they are willing to give. Again, I wouldn't mind having a beer and discussing face to face, unfortunately, that isn't an option so I choose to take my wife on a date and a nice dinner than continuing to have a conversation here where nothing is going to be solved and no one is going to change their opinion. It is what it is. Good luck.
considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
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considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.
Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
silence means security, it seems.
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silence means security, it seems.Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
Bur?
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Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
I agree with Rysky here. There is a huge difference in saying "Okay, this officer really messed up here, let's figure out why this happened and fix the problem!" And "All cops are horrible people and they are only here to infringe upon my Civil Rights!"
In the case of story in the original post... Well, I agree the officer should not be facing any type of criminal charges. In my state, I can't speak for all, because I don't know their specific criminal codes, our criminal codes read as follows: "Knowingly or intentionally" fill in the rest... Did that SWAT officer knowingly or intentionally hurt that child? No! (At least I would hope that he/she did not do so knowingly or intentionally, I was not there, nor do I know what that officer was thinking during this incident.) Therefore, I agree no criminal charges should be filed. Now, should the city/county be held accountable to the medical bills for that poor child, yes. Should that police department reexamine how they conduct their investigations and follow-ups? Yes.
Armchair quarterbacking police actions is easy; we can all spend an eternity ripping apart the split-second decision an officer has to make. However, until you have been in such a position, then you have absolutely no idea how you would handle such an incident. You can think all you want, but until you've been there, don't judge. Now, that is not to say bad cops who do bad things shouldn't be punished. In my opinion, dirty cops should be hammered to the full extent of the law.
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The problem is that police see anyone who might commit a crime as a "scumbag". I believe that is the favorite term of the cop and cop lovers on this thread. Offenders are subhumans not deserving of rights. Especially BLACK offenders, to hear cops talk. They're just (and I quote several cops I've heard over the years) "animals" who "all lie" and "are all trying to get over". Except, apparently, the crackhead and tweaker snitches, they never lie ever!
Oh, yeah, and it never looks good when police candidates are rejected for having too high of an IQ score (the "official" explanation was the fear highly intelligent people would find police work boring). And the government (2nd Circuit) says it's perfectly ok and not discrimination. The IQ in question was 125. The average IQ of a cop, apparently, is 100. Maybe smart cops don't follow bad orders or look the other way as easily.
Cops are the perpetrators of domestic violence at twice the rate of normal citizens. Anabolic steroid use is a huge problem. Alcohol abuse is rampant (some estimates suggest 25% of cops are alcoholics). Suicide is higher among cops than the general public. So, basically, we have a bunch of violent, steroid fueled, alcoholic, depressed people carrying guns and keeping the peace. And they're backed up by a "justice" system that bends over backward to shield them.
Yeah, that's making me sleep well at night.
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Deliberately pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is not an accident.That is a true statement.
However, its a true statement that bears absolutely no relation to the incident in question.
After 5 pages, I do not feel constrained by the incident ONLY in the OP.
Even still, it wasn't an accident that that a flash bang went off in that room. It was a deliberate act.
It wasn't an accident that the officers didn't try a side/back door.
It wasn't an accident that they didn't bother looking through a window.
It wasn't an accident that they didn't do better recon on the place.
These are all deliberate choices.
An accident would have been the officer throwing the flash bang towards one house, being surprised by raccoon, missing and throwing it into a different house. This was a deliberate action of throwing an explosive device into a house without knowing who or what was present.
The problem is that police see anyone who might commit a crime as a "scumbag". I believe that is the favorite term of the cop and cop lovers on this thread. Offenders are subhumans not deserving of rights. Especially BLACK offenders, to hear cops talk. They're just (and I quote several cops I've heard over the years) "animals" who "all lie" and "are all trying to get over". Except, apparently, the crackhead and tweaker snitches, they never lie ever!
Oh, yeah, and it never looks good when police candidates are rejected for having too high of an IQ score (the "official" explanation was the fear highly intelligent people would find police work boring). And the government (2nd Circuit) says it's perfectly ok and not discrimination. The IQ in question was 125. The average IQ of a cop, apparently, is 100. Maybe smart cops don't follow bad orders or look the other way as easily.
Cops are the perpetrators of domestic violence at twice the rate of normal citizens. Anabolic steroid use is a huge problem. Alcohol abuse is rampant (some estimates suggest 25% of cops are alcoholics). Suicide is higher among cops than the general public. So, basically, we have a bunch of violent, steroid fueled, alcoholic, depressed people carrying guns and keeping the peace. And they're backed up by a "justice" system that bends over backward to shield them.
Yeah, that's making me sleep well at night.
This is exactly the kind of hate-speech I referenced in my earlier post. You clearly have no clue to which your post refers. Are there bad/racist cops in the US? Of course, but the same can be said of every single profession in the world! The same can also be said of every single race/ethnicity/gender/sex/religion/etc...
By making such a blanket statement such as "So, basically, we have a bunch of violent, steroid fueled, alcoholic, depressed people carrying guns and keeping the peace. And they're backed up by a "justice" system that bends over backward to shield them." proves your uneducated (I use the term to indicate your lack of knowledge on this particular subject, not your intelligence or level of education) stance.
The majority of police officers are good, hard working people who places their lives and well-being in harms way every day they go to work to allow everyday citizens to live their lives without fear that their neighbor will come take an axe to their head and then rape their children. If you think that all cops are such horrible people, then by all means disband all law enforcement. You will then see the truly horrible people who live in this world, and you'll be begging to have someone willing to defend you against these people for nothing more than a little respect.
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The problem is that police see anyone who might commit a crime as a "scumbag". I believe that is the favorite term of the cop and cop lovers on this thread. Offenders are subhumans not deserving of rights. Especially BLACK offenders, to hear cops talk. They're just (and I quote several cops I've heard over the years) "animals" who "all lie" and "are all trying to get over". Except, apparently, the crackhead and tweaker snitches, they never lie ever!
Don't stereotype... About stereotype cops stereotyping... The irony is strong here.
Oh, yeah, and it never looks good when police candidates are rejected for having too high of an IQ score (the "official" explanation was the fear highly intelligent people would find police work boring). And the government (2nd Circuit) says it's perfectly ok and not discrimination. The IQ in question was 125. The average IQ of a cop, apparently, is 100. Maybe smart cops don't follow bad orders or look the other way as easily.
I have never heard of this. Source?
Cops are the perpetrators of domestic violence at twice the rate of normal citizens. Anabolic steroid use is a huge problem. Alcohol abuse is rampant (some estimates suggest 25% of cops are alcoholics). Suicide is higher among cops than the general public.
Links to these statistics please and thank you.
So, basically, we have a bunch of violent, steroid fueled, alcoholic, depressed people carrying guns and keeping the peace. And they're backed up by a "justice" system that bends over backward to shield them.
Find me someone who does a cop's, or a firefighter's, or an ER surgeon's job and doesn't hit one of those criteria.
Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
I agree with Rysky here. There is a huge difference in saying "Okay, this officer really messed up here, let's figure out why this happened and fix the problem!" And "All cops are horrible people and they are only here to infringe upon my Civil Rights!"
In the case of story in the original post... Well, I agree the officer should not be facing any type of criminal charges. In my state, I can't speak for all, because I don't know their specific criminal codes, our criminal codes read as follows: "Knowingly or intentionally" fill in the rest... Did that SWAT officer knowingly or intentionally hurt that child? No! (At least I would hope that he/she did not do so knowingly or intentionally, I was not there, nor do I know what that officer was thinking during this incident.) Therefore, I agree no criminal charges should be filed. Now, should the city/county be held accountable to the medical bills for that poor child, yes. Should that police department reexamine how they conduct their investigations and follow-ups? Yes.
Armchair quarterbacking police actions is easy; we can all spend an eternity ripping apart the split-second decision an officer has to make. However, until you have been in such a position, then you have absolutely no idea how you would handle such an incident. You can think all you want, but until you've been there, don't judge. Now, that is not to say bad cops who do bad things shouldn't be punished. In my opinion, dirty cops should be hammered to the full extent of the law.
The county CAN'T pay medical bills for what happened because it's illegal for them to do so. Nor can they apologize, that would be meaning they are legally accepting responsibility for what happened. Any who question this practice are obviously anti cop/infringing on the rights of counties to run their police force as they see fit. It's just a tragic accident. The swat cop will go home unscathed and sleep quite well at night, getting a raise in a few months. This is all as it should be. Move along. Nothing to see here.
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county CAN'T pay medical bills for what happened because it's illegal for them to do so. Nor can they apologize, that would be meaning they are legally accepting responsibility for what happened. Any who question this practice are obviously anti cop/infringing on the rights of counties to run their police force as they see fit. It's just a tragic accident. The swat cop will go home unscathed and sleep quite well at night, getting a raise in a few months. This is all as it should be. Move along. Nothing to see here.
What? How is that illegal? And YES they should take the responsibility for what happened.
"That SWAT cop" will go home knowing he blew a child's face off. That's punishment enough of he didn't know there was a child in the room. If he did though then yes his head deserves to be on the chopping block alongside everybody above who should have gotten their shit together.
Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
Okay... Agreed about your first sentence. There IS a difference. But, pray tell, who gets to decide which is which? The "malcontents", the "scumbags", the "fascist oppressors", the "guv'ment", the "cop lovers"... And where do you belong, Rysky?
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Okay... Agreed about your first sentence. There IS a difference. But, pray tell, who gets to decide which is which? The "malcontents", the "scumbags", the "fascist oppressors", the "guv'ment", the "cop lovers"... And where do you belong, Rysky?Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
Well if cops or the government have wronged you then by all means air away, but if you have never had any interactions with the police then you shouldn't rant and rave like the world owes you something. It's one thing to side with a victim, it's another to Attack a group with little to no knowledge of what's going on.
Me? Nowhere. I've had plenty of dealings with cops, from them writing me up for speeding a couple of times, to having to go over an incident report where I fell asleep at the wheel and crashed my car, to them having to search my house because a man wanted for murder was loose in the area. Not in any of those times did they try to bully me. They did not antagonize me nor did they talk down to me or treat me like a second class citizen.
I don't have anything against the police in general, but I do have a problem with the county refusing to pay for the injuries they caused to an innocent person.
I think part of the problems that are with the Police in the US are stemming from rising power among the police. For example, Civil Forfeiture laws, should never have been written as they are. They give too much power, and in almost every instance which they are used, are corruptly utilized to bring in profits over justice.
These actions are what are slowly turning many in the public against the police that are supposed to be there to protect them.
Get robbed...good luck at ever getting anything back...unless you just happen to be a government official, a high profile case in the area, or part of the police force.
They won't even take fingerprints.
Recently a lady got killed by the groom on the wedding night. She called 911...FOUR times. Got killed after the fourth time.
There is pattern, and the pattern that many people are seeing in the US is that the police are there for themselves, to protect the government and their auspices, and let the general public protect themselves...unless of course the police need money.
This may not be the correct stance to take. I've been personally helped by the police recently to tell the truth. They were very kind and helpful. I can see how they would follow orders and need to follow policy very closely. They have a TON of policies they need to follow (if the departments are typical, most people probably don't realize just how many policies the police actually have to follow...).
But, many of the things that have been happening and the trends in law enforcement have not endeared much of the public to their local defenders...and in fact in some ways seem to be distancing some parts of the US from their local authorities.
Prime example...Ferguson.
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What most people forget is a police force, no matter how big or small, is a direct reflection of the community they serve because the pool of officers comes from that community.Is that really true when the makeup of the police force in no way represents that of the racial and cultural makeup of the community they watch over?
Local Officers usually tend to come from the community they police so yeah they tend to be of the same racial and cultural makeup as non-police of the community. Obviously not standing for groups like state police and SWAT which smaller communities might not have access to their own.
Okay... Agreed about your first sentence. There IS a difference. But, pray tell, who gets to decide which is which? The "malcontents", the "scumbags", the "fascist oppressors", the "guv'ment", the "cop lovers"... And where do you belong, Rysky?Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
Well if cops or the government have wronged you then by all means air away, but if you have never had any interactions with the police then you shouldn't rant and rave like the world owes you something. It's one thing to side with a victim, it's another to Attack a group with little to no knowledge of what's going on.
Me? Nowhere. I've had plenty of dealings with cops, from them writing me up for speeding a couple of times, to having to go over an incident report where I fell asleep at the wheel and crashed my car, to them having to search my house because a man wanted for murder was loose in the area. Not in any of those times did they try to bully me. They did not antagonize me nor did they talk down to me or treat me like a second class citizen.
I have had interactions with the police too from time to time, only once about me in a minor infraction, and I have been well treated. No personal complaints.
However, it is a legitimate concern for EVERYONE living in a society that the police force works decently. They are the agents of the state, effect the monopoly on violence (along with soldiers, which have a similar issue, no?), and can potentially become a very serious problem in two main cases: First, if the state were to become corrupt, meaning society is turned into an authoritarian police state (see, there's that word again, wonder if it has any relation to the police force and their policies...) Second, if the police were to be severed from democratic influence and act like a mafia. See, the police are, and need to be, tied to both state and public, and severing either of those ties leads to very bad places.
So, complaints about the police ARE important. As stated above, a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel. We are today in a situation where much of the trust the police OUGHT to have does not exist, partially due to various spectacular f!%*ups, insane policies and poor transparency in the police force itself, partially due to bad policies from the national level that the police are forced to follow. Now, even if this is not all the fault of the police force, and even if turtling in and getting defensive is completely understandable, it is an important, larger issue. At some point, when trust is gone, you have to open up to accountability, transparency and criticism - if you want to do a good job.
And calling every complaint about the police "mindless hatebashing" does nothing but polarize the issue further.
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I have had interactions with the police too from time to time, only once about me in a minor infraction, and I have been well treated. No personal complaints.However, it is a legitimate concern for EVERYONE living in a society that the police force works decently. They are the agents of the state, effect the monopoly on violence (along with soldiers, which have a similar issue, no?), and can potentially become a very serious problem in two main cases: First, if the state were to become corrupt, meaning society is turned into an authoritarian police state (see, there's that word again, wonder if it has any relation to the police force and their policies...) Second, if the police were to be severed from democratic influence and act like a mafia. See, the police are, and need to be, tied to both state and public, and severing either of those ties leads to very bad places.
So, complaints about the police ARE important. As stated above, a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel. We are today in a situation where much of the trust the police OUGHT to have does not exist, partially due to various spectacular f&*@ups, insane policies and poor transparency in the police force itself, partially due to bad policies from the national level that the police are forced to follow. Now, even if this is not all the fault of the police force, and even if turtling in and getting defensive is completely understandable, it is an important, larger issue. At some point, when trust is gone, you have to open up to accountability, transparency and criticism - if you want to do a good job.
And calling every complaint about the police "mindless hatebashing" does nothing but polarize the issue further..
I have not once said that every complaint is mindless hatebashing, I stated that I see a very clear distinction between rightful grievances, which most of this forum have been, and hatebashing, which was in reference to what a poster a few posts up had said and where I have seen elsewhere, effectively starting his statement by claiming all cops are Rascist Incompetant Tyrannical Bullies.
Add in then and I'm with you.
The county CAN'T pay medical bills for what happened...Once again, there's a differance between airing grievances and mindlessly hatebashing. We live in a society were the popular consensus is to hate all police, regardless of individual interactions one might have with them.considering that respect seems to revolve around never complaining, criticizing or even commenting, it's going to be very easy to be seen as a malcontent.
I agree with Rysky here. There is a huge difference in saying "Okay, this officer really messed up here, let's figure out why this happened and fix the problem!" And "All cops are horrible people and they are only here to infringe upon my Civil Rights!"
In the case of story in the original post... Well, I agree the officer should not be facing any type of criminal charges. In my state, I can't speak for all, because I don't know their specific criminal codes, our criminal codes read as follows: "Knowingly or intentionally" fill in the rest... Did that SWAT officer knowingly or intentionally hurt that child? No! (At least I would hope that he/she did not do so knowingly or intentionally, I was not there, nor do I know what that officer was thinking during this incident.) Therefore, I agree no criminal charges should be filed. Now, should the city/county be held accountable to the medical bills for that poor child, yes. Should that police department reexamine how they conduct their investigations and follow-ups? Yes.
Armchair quarterbacking police actions is easy; we can all spend an eternity ripping apart the split-second decision an officer has to make. However, until you have been in such a position, then you have absolutely no idea how you would handle such an incident. You can think all you want, but until you've been there, don't judge. Now, that is not to say bad cops who do bad things shouldn't be punished. In my opinion, dirty cops should be hammered to the full extent of the law.
it's right there in the article. The county cannot pay for what happenned, it is illegal for them to do so.
No charges for Georgia officers who maimed toddler during no-knock drug raid
"The boy will likely need similar surgeries every two years until he is 20 years old to repair badly damaged nerve endings in his face and additional plastic surgery throughout his life, the attorney said.
"The county has said it would not pay for the child’s medical bills, arguing that the board of commissioners was not legally permitted to pay for them."
What a scumbag. "Oh, gee, the drug-addled confidential informant who purchased meth didn't say anything about kids..."
Only Workers Revolution Will Avenge Bounkham “Bou Bou” Phonesavanh!
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No charges for Georgia officers who maimed toddler during no-knock drug raid
"The boy will likely need similar surgeries every two years until he is 20 years old to repair badly damaged nerve endings in his face and additional plastic surgery throughout his life, the attorney said.
"The county has said it would not pay for the child’s medical bills, arguing that the board of commissioners was not legally permitted to pay for them."
What a scumbag. "Oh, gee, the drug-addled confidential informant who purchased meth didn't say anything about kids..."
Only Workers Revolution Will Avenge Bounkham “Bou Bou” Phonesavanh!
Ah, Spasibo Comrade.
hmm "not legally permitted" is more along the lines of "we don't have to neener neener" than outright "it's illegal for us to do so". WHICH IS ALL KINDS OF SHITTY DOUCHEBAGGERY that thankfully has been revoked now that a fire's been lit under their ass.
Pillbug, I'll marry you
[Stifles murderous, jealous rage]
Ah, the your and their families. My most hated nemeses.proves your uneducatedI hate it when people say things like this while failing to use proper spelling.
ShadowcatX, if you'll retread that sentence you will notice that is the correct spelling. The sentence reads "your uneducated (TL;DR) stance." Oops? So before you go on a tangent, perhaps pay attention a little better?
No charges for Georgia officers who maimed toddler during no-knock drug raid
"The boy will likely need similar surgeries every two years until he is 20 years old to repair badly damaged nerve endings in his face and additional plastic surgery throughout his life, the attorney said.
"The county has said it would not pay for the child’s medical bills, arguing that the board of commissioners was not legally permitted to pay for them."
What a scumbag. "Oh, gee, the drug-addled confidential informant who purchased meth didn't say anything about kids..."
Only Workers Revolution Will Avenge Bounkham “Bou Bou” Phonesavanh!
Ah, Spasibo Comrade.
hmm "not legally permitted" is more along the lines of "we don't have to neener neener" than outright "it's illegal for us to do so". WHICH IS ALL KINDS OF S+*&TY DOUCHEBAGGERY that thankfully has been revoked now that a fire's been lit under their ass.
I wonder how big that fire would be without "malcontents" and their "mindless hate bashing?"
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I wonder how big that fire would be without "malcontents" and their "mindless hate bashing?"No charges for Georgia officers who maimed toddler during no-knock drug raid
"The boy will likely need similar surgeries every two years until he is 20 years old to repair badly damaged nerve endings in his face and additional plastic surgery throughout his life, the attorney said.
"The county has said it would not pay for the child’s medical bills, arguing that the board of commissioners was not legally permitted to pay for them."
What a scumbag. "Oh, gee, the drug-addled confidential informant who purchased meth didn't say anything about kids..."
Only Workers Revolution Will Avenge Bounkham “Bou Bou” Phonesavanh!
Ah, Spasibo Comrade.
hmm "not legally permitted" is more along the lines of "we don't have to neener neener" than outright "it's illegal for us to do so". WHICH IS ALL KINDS OF S+*&TY DOUCHEBAGGERY that thankfully has been revoked now that a fire's been lit under their ass.
Seeing as people having righteous indignation at how the commissioners are acting is fully justified and thus not hatebashing, to answer your question, pretty much the same.
That's my problem with the usual "Wait for the process", "Wait for all the facts to come" arguments: Without protests and media pressure, the facts don't come out.I wonder how big that fire would be without "malcontents" and their "mindless hate bashing?"No charges for Georgia officers who maimed toddler during no-knock drug raid
"The boy will likely need similar surgeries every two years until he is 20 years old to repair badly damaged nerve endings in his face and additional plastic surgery throughout his life, the attorney said.
"The county has said it would not pay for the child’s medical bills, arguing that the board of commissioners was not legally permitted to pay for them."
What a scumbag. "Oh, gee, the drug-addled confidential informant who purchased meth didn't say anything about kids..."
Only Workers Revolution Will Avenge Bounkham “Bou Bou” Phonesavanh!
Ah, Spasibo Comrade.
hmm "not legally permitted" is more along the lines of "we don't have to neener neener" than outright "it's illegal for us to do so". WHICH IS ALL KINDS OF S+*&TY DOUCHEBAGGERY that thankfully has been revoked now that a fire's been lit under their ass.
can't favorite this enough.
Again, both hero and villain cops need their time in the headlines.
I love hypocrisy. Lots of people attacking an officer for doing what he was trained to do, and how he was trained to it. The county should be paying for the child's medical bills.
On the other hand, where is the outrage for [http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sc-cop-indicted-shooting-shrouded-mystery-25854833]Officer Kills Man Through Car Door in His Driveway[/ur]
"A prosecutor, in a rare action against a police officer, sought to charge him with voluntary manslaughter, punishable by up to 30 years in prison. But the grand jury disagreed, indicting him on a misdemeanor."
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I love hypocrisy.
That explains so many of your posts.
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The problem is that police see anyone who might commit a crime as a "scumbag". I believe that is the favorite term of the cop and cop lovers on this thread. Offenders are subhumans not deserving of rights. Especially BLACK offenders, to hear cops talk. They're just (and I quote several cops I've heard over the years) "animals" who "all lie" and "are all trying to get over". Except, apparently, the crackhead and tweaker snitches, they never lie ever!Don't stereotype... About stereotype cops stereotyping... The irony is strong here.
Oh, yeah, and it never looks good when police candidates are rejected for having too high of an IQ score (the "official" explanation was the fear highly intelligent people would find police work boring). And the government (2nd Circuit) says it's perfectly ok and not discrimination. The IQ in question was 125. The average IQ of a cop, apparently, is 100. Maybe smart cops don't follow bad orders or look the other way as easily.I have never heard of this. Source?
Cops are the perpetrators of domestic violence at twice the rate of normal citizens. Anabolic steroid use is a huge problem. Alcohol abuse is rampant (some estimates suggest 25% of cops are alcoholics). Suicide is higher among cops than the general public.Links to these statistics please and thank you.
Find me someone who does a cop's, or a firefighter's, or an ER surgeon's job and doesn't hit one of those criteria.
So, basically, we have a bunch of violent, steroid fueled, alcoholic, depressed people carrying guns and keeping the peace. And they're backed up by a "justice" system that bends over backward to shield them.
Do your own research. It's all on .gov sources. If you choose to not learn about the topic, that's not my problem.