The Bestiary says that, after being reduced to zero HP and assuming gaseous form, vampires must return to "their home coffin" within 2 hours or be destroyed. This seems to clearly indicate that a vampire has a single coffin in which it must rest and recover. However, in a Paizo module I'm running for my PCs, a vampire has a couple of "guest" coffins to give refuge to vampires who are unable to return to their own coffins. Is this just an error by the author, or am I missing something? A rule that vampires must return to a single home coffin obviously makes it much easier to destroy vampires. I suspect that it what the Bestiary intended and the author just made a mistake.
I don't know about the coffin question, but the "reduced to 0" part makes it sound like it only happens at 0 HP, kinda like how a normal creature is Disabled if they hit exactly 0, but go straight unconscious if hit below it. Makes me wonder if knocking a Vampire directly into negatives without them ever being at 0 would just destroy them like any other undead, bypassing the auto Gaseous Form. Huh. Now I'm curious.
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The Bestiary says that, after being reduced to zero HP and assuming gaseous form, vampires must return to "their home coffin" within 2 hours or be destroyed. This seems to clearly indicate that a vampire has a single coffin in which it must rest and recover. However, in a Paizo module I'm running for my PCs, a vampire has a couple of "guest" coffins to give refuge to vampires who are unable to return to their own coffins. Is this just an error by the author, or am I missing something? A rule that vampires must return to a single home coffin obviously makes it much easier to destroy vampires. I suspect that it what the Bestiary intended and the author just made a mistake.
Not to be nitpicky, but the PRD actually specifies "... its coffin home ... "
Take that for what you will, but it's slightly different wording than "their home coffin"
I've seen references to vampires having their coffins transported when they need to travel longer than 10-20 miles.
chaoseffect, I don't recall the exact wording, but I think it is more like below zero, rather than exactly zero. And, Human Diversion, thanks for the wording correction, which further seems to emphasize that each vampire may only have one home coffin. But, yes, it seems reasonable that the coffin could be mobile. The key thing I'm trying to figure out is if the module was right in implying that a vampire could find shelter in a "guest" coffin if it can't access its own. The answer seems to be that the module was in error.
It has to be a coffin in which some of the vampire's native earth has been placed.I'm not trying to start a rules argument, just genuinely curious (because I find vampires to be fascinating bad guys) - where is that from?
It's not a rule it's just cool.
I think the point of the bestiary entry is that a vampire can't just return to any coffin, it needs to be his special home coffin. This gives the characters a chance to experience the horror of finding a coffin in some guys closet half full of grave dirt.
In one Golarion module there is a vampire far from home who keeps gave dirt in his coffin.
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It has to be a coffin in which some of the vampire's native earth has been placed.I'm not trying to start a rules argument, just genuinely curious (because I find vampires to be fascinating bad guys) - where is that from?It's not a rule it's just cool.
I think the point of the bestiary entry is that a vampire can't just return to any coffin, it needs to be his special home coffin. This gives the characters a chance to experience the horror of finding a coffin in some guys closet half full of grave dirt.
In one Golarion module there is a vampire far from home who keeps gave dirt in his coffin.
I guess what I was asking, was what specific culture is the "gravedirt" part of the vampire lore from? Is that a modern construct? Did that originate from Central/Western Europe where most attribute vampire lore to come from? Is that an Anne Rice thing?
Ultimately it's a rule that can be easily overlooked as unless you're running a pre-published adventure that has strict guidelines on what you can and can't do (I.E. Pathfinder Society) you can simply say "oh, that coffin is his."
I never heard of the grave dirt thing till I read it in the module, and even then it was just a mention of grave dirt in the coffin not a rule, which I thought was cool and I thought, "of course he would have grave dirt in his coffin--brilliant!"
In my experience, the location of their coffin is usually detailed in an encounter with a vampire; because a stake through the heart while they are recovering is one of the classic ways you can truly destroy them.
I believe the grave dirt legend is Eastern European. The legend goes some thing like, vampires have to return to thier grave during the day. The way to get around that is a coffin with grave dirt in it. They could just as easily return to a mausoleum.
In a PF sense, you colud have a mausoleum that was (relative to the party) impenetrable, due to magic, traps or being under many feet of solid rock. Think of a pressurized air pipe as an express elevator going down.
Personally, I am not buying the spare coffins thing. I would see what the module would allow. How about everyone has thier own grave dirt? Sand, loamy clay, gravel, err a marble slab???
Now, me, if the vampire was smart enough to have guest coffins, he would have spare grave dirt for his visitors in a warehouse, disguised as a gardening center. There the party is, wandering amongst the plants looking for . . . .something. Ah ah! They attach a skunk!
Later, the vampire says, " Vat iz dat schmel? Ahnd I tought I schmelled bahd! Queek, Igor! Lysol!"
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About that: So I had this happen once: the PCs fought a vampire but didn't have a way to completely kill him (no cleric in the party), so they found his coffin with him sleeping in it, staked him, took him out of his coffin, and smashed it into itty bitty bits. Then they unstaked him, he turned to mist and . . . Didn't have a coffin to return to so he just. . . Died? Is that right?
I believe the grave dirt legend is Eastern European. The legend goes some thing like, vampires have to return to thier grave during the day. The way to get around that is a coffin with grave dirt in it. They could just as easily return to a mausoleum.
In a PF sense, you colud have a mausoleum that was (relative to the party) impenetrable, due to magic, traps or being under many feet of solid rock. Think of a pressurized air pipe as an express elevator going down.
Personally, I am not buying the spare coffins thing. I would see what the module would allow. How about everyone has thier own grave dirt? Sand, loamy clay, gravel, err a marble slab???
Now, me, if the vampire was smart enough to have guest coffins, he would have spare grave dirt for his visitors in a warehouse, disguised as a gardening center. There the party is, wandering amongst the plants looking for . . . .something. Ah ah! They attach a skunk!
Later, the vampire says, " Vat iz dat schmel? Ahnd I tought I schmelled bahd! Queek, Igor! Lysol!"
I think Dracula had home soil in his coffin in Bram Stoker's Dracula. I assume that wasn't the origin of the requirement, but it sets the origin in myth/folklore rather than RPG. If I remember right (it has been a while) Van Helsing and Jonathan Harker worked to sanctify the suitable receptacles that had been shipped from Transylvania to England in order to trap Dracula.
I'd certainly hope that it's only their coffin. It'd be obnoxious if a vampire got smacked down a few blocks away from Barry's Coffin Emporium and got their choice of 50 different hiding spots.
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It has to be a coffin in which some of the vampire's native earth has been placed.I'm not trying to start a rules argument, just genuinely curious (because I find vampires to be fascinating bad guys) - where is that from?
I don't know when that part of the legend started - but it was in the book Dracula. (a bit slow - but it holds up pretty well) Much of Van Helsing / Harker fighting against Dracula was hunting down the several dozen crates he'd shipped to London with dirt from his homeland. Fortunately for them, Dracula hadn't had time to spread it to more than a few different locations.
Though of course - much of Dracula doesn't carry over to PF. For one thing, Dracula actually did appear in daylight without being destroyed. He didn't sparkle either though - and it was strongly implied that he lost most/all of his powers in daylight. Lesser/younger vampires couldn't go out in daylight though. (the characters whose journals made up the book were kind of iffy on Dracula's powers - so the reader was never quite sure what they all were either)
As far as I know - the only thing Bram Stoker invented for the book Dracula rather than taking from folklore was the whole 'can't be seen in mirrors' thing.
Thanks, folks. This is very helpful. I think the "grave dirt" explanation is great flavor, even if not RAW. It also seems like, per RAW, a vampire may only have one home coffin at a time. The Paizo module's reference to guest coffins seems like a bit of misguided flavor text/atmosphere that doesn't fly under the RAW, and for good reason (it would make it too hard to destroy vampires for good). Oh well, even Paizo authors make rules mistakes sometimes, I guess!
I'd certainly hope that it's only their coffin. It'd be obnoxious if a vampire got smacked down a few blocks away from Barry's Coffin Emporium and got their choice of 50 different hiding spots.
Actually, this would be a hilarious mini-quest and I might just use it on my players. Playing whack-a-mole with a vampire with access to fifty different coffins sounds pretty damn funny, especially if the vampire is masquerading as a mortician or someone else who actually works at (or in conjunction with) Barry's Coffin Emporium.
The dirt thing is from 1e, though it's presumably older than that.
These creatures must rest in a coffin or similar receptacle during hours of sunlight unless far below the ground, and in the latter case they must occasionally return to such rest, for their power is restored by contact with soil from their grave.
That's Gygax, in case it wasn't obvious.
As you said a vampire returns to "their home coffin". Some people have multiple homes, it does not say "A home coffin", if it is possible, a vampire would have multiple coffin's as they are usually very old and have grown very wise/smart. Apparently whoever had written that module is playing it as they can have multiple's. I like what one guy stated though, I have never played starcraft, but I like to read about and when allowed play vampires(D&D 4th has a vamp class, aside from that have only gotten to play half-vampires's, as a player anyway), and that is wherever they last slept is where they must return to if reduced to 0 (0 meaning at any point their hp reaches 0, if a vampire is reduced to -1 or -97 it is inclusive to mean that during that time they also reached 0).
If the module says it I would just go with it, even if it breaks other rules conventions. Modules are often written by people who do not fully understand all the rules or the implications of what they may write. However, they do understand their overarching story line and whether they intend for a villain to be easily destroyed.
Honestly, I've always felt that DnD vampires were surprisingly easy to destroy considering the mythos behind vampires, including the "must return to a specific coffin" concept. It's much more viable to have a truly tenacious vampire if they could hide in many coffins in multiple locations (within a relatively small distance of 10 to 20 miles). Besides, it means the fight is more interesting than destroy a coffin and then go slug it out. Your party has to search for the right coffin or follow the gaseous form, etc. Just more interesting to me.
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Vampires are fun, I'm about to dart out to dinner so I can't do a long post but historically you have to do a huge rigorolle to kill the western ones including snacks, seeds for them to count, staking them, etc. As for becoming one forget the whole blood sucking thing you can wind up a vampire if you lie. As for finding them get a virgin to ride a horse around if it refuses to cross a coffin/grave then they're in there.