First Full Caster character...help!

[LazGrizzle]

So here I am making a character for a semi-regular Emerald Spire crawl, and I realized I have never played a full caster for more than one session.

So in breaking my all-martial-or-skill based streak, I would like to focus on a buff/debuff style full caster.

I have been looking at a Hex Channeler Witch, or Heavens Witch Doctor Shaman, but then again for being a "magic rookie" I was considering leaning Sorcerer (less 'bookkeeping').

In your ever helpful and infinite wisdom, Oh Board of Messages, what Sorcerer bloodlines and builds would be good for this? Or should I stick to Witch?

I am open to all race, class and archetype suggestions that fulfill my 'character skeleton':

-20 pt Buy, 2 traits, Full Caster, little to no melee, focusing eventual on either buffing or debuffing.
-I like the idea of a slightly unstable primitive style magic user who is a little loony and unpredictable.

[Gregory Connolly]

My thinking on this is there are a lot of solid builds that fit that concept.

Heavens Oracle makes a good buffer/SoL caster with Color Spray & Awesome Display, this doesn't work for a heavens shaman at all and I wouldn't go there.

Witch with just about any archetype or none at all is good at both buffing and debuffing.

Shaman is about the same as witch but with less offense and more defense.

Sorcerer is actually kind of bad at this while being good at things you haven't listed. They make great blasters and enchanters, but they are only so so at buffing and debuffing.

Bard isn't technically a full caster, but you can build them to do what a full caster does mostly. They are among the best at buffing and can debuff as well.

Alchemist can do this job well also, but again isn't actually a full caster. Infusion and some of the debuff bomb discoveries would be a good start.

[Dave Justus]

Shaman is pretty complex to play. I would strongly suggest suggest Witch.

The nice thing about the Witch is you are prepared so you can figure out what spells work good through experimentation and if you choose a crappy one, you can easily learn more and just not use that one. And, if you choose a whole pile of crappy spells, you always have your very powerful Hexes.

[tonyz]

Witches are great at using their hexes for debuffing (and some buffing), with their spells for backup and utility purposes. Usually it's fairly obvious what to do.

Wizards are probably the best overall buffers and debuffers in the game, if they are built right, and if they spend time thinking about what they need to do, learning about their opponents, and knowing the right thing to do. Plus if they work on adding to their spells known they can very often come up with the perfect tool for the occasion. (Research, divination, and Knowledge skills are all very important!.) You need a fair amount of system mastery and tactical knowledge to be highly effective at this.

(Clerics and bards are really good at buffing, not so good at debuffing, depending on the build.)

In either case, you want to look for several things:

1) who is the rest of your party? what spells would really help them, or really hinder enemies as they work to take them out? You need to work with your fellow players on this, and figure out what makes them shine the best.

2) Look for spells that have no SR and/or no saving throw -- sometimes just changing conditions around someone is enough, and you don't want to fail against high-save enemies.

3) Have spells (or hexes, or whatever) that target several different saves -- and know which save an enemy is weak at. Then use the right spell for the job. Don't throw a Fort save at a giant (good Fort save, high Con) -- throw a Will save instead.

4) Know what your spells do, and how to get around them. Shutting down enemy archers with a pocket rainstorm is clever, but not so clever if your party's main damage-dealer is an archer. (Put up an illusion of a fogbank instead and let him know it's not real so he can easily save against it.) Buff your friends, debuff your foes, and watch out on the overlap between those zones.

5) Research your enemies ahead of time if possible, so you can prepare the perfect spell for the occasion. The middle of combat is not the right time to be thumbing through the 38-volume Encyclopedia of Targets!

6) Have a light hand on the scales -- do enough to let your friends win the battle, not enough that you run out of spells partway through. Often a single spell and some aid another actions (or wands, or cantrips) will be more than sufficient for one encounter. Save your best spells for when they really make a difference. And that way, if things get really tough, you have reserves to pull from that your foes (or the GM) may not be expecting.

7) If you can, get some wands of handy utility spells (the sort of thing you regularly cast), and some scrolls of key helpful spells (the sort of thing where you go "I'll only need this once every seven years, but when I do I will need it very badly." Wands of mage armor, scrolls of stone to flesh. Wands of protection from (alignment of favorite enemy), scrolls of water breathing.. Prepare during downtime, and you'll be able to save the day when things go haywire.

8) If it gives a saving throw, you cast it; if it doesn't, wands or scrolls are an OK source. Higher DCs from you than from items.

[LazGrizzle]

Nice guys, thanks a bunch!

The rest of the party so far is Dungeon Rover Ranger, Unchained Monk, and I think a whip based Swashbuckler...one other player is undecided.

Having just read what I wrote, it's probably better for the sake of the party to focus either on blasting or heal/buff.

[Dave Justus]

Sounds like your party will be pretty competent martially, so I wouldn't worry about blasting (except keeping a bit for swarms and similar) and they shouldn't need to be buffed to much to be pretty effective either.

I'd look into primarily providing battlefield contol/debuff to lower the damage everyone takes and having condition removal (at least via scrolls or next day prep.) One exception to not needing buffs is haste...heavy martial parties love their haste.

It would be good if the other player choose a martial/buffing character (bard would be ideal, reach cleric would be good too) so you could focus on your main job of hindering the bad guys.

[calagnar]

LazGrizzle wrote:

-20 pt Buy, 2 traits, Full Caster, little to no melee, focusing eventual on either buffing or debuffing.

-I like the idea of a slightly unstable primitive style magic user who is a little loony and unpredictable.

Dose not lose any spell casting. Just has to pay more for the opposition schools.

Wizard (Arcane Bomber)
Opposition Schools : Abjuration, Necromancy, Illusion, Evocation
Bomb (Su): At 1st level, the arcane bomber gains an ability
nearly identical to the alchemist’s bomb ability (Advanced
Player’s Guide 28). Unlike the alchemist, at 1st level, the arcane
bomber chooses one type of energy from the following list:
acid, cold, fire, and electricity. He can throw bombs of that
type, but cannot modify them with discoveries.

Some things will be immune. However when it dose work it changes the game.
Fey Bloodline
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the compulsion subschool, increase the spell's DC by +2.
Infernal Bloodline
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the charm subschool, increase the spell's DC by +2.

[SmiloDan]

I think a witch would be good. They can heal too, which your party could use.

[TGMaxMaxer]

I would recommend the Arcanist actually. Slower spell progression (like the sorcerer) but with the flexibility of a wizard in spells known.

You also have the option to have both a bloodline and a arcane school in the same class without a dip, and can also be a white mage with healing spells.

at 3rd level, as a human, you can be throwing around DC 20 saves for any school, and if you want to blast you can do that while still having spells prepped for utility.

Witch is also wonderful, but suffer from the spell list and hex list when it comes to anything that is mind-affecting (many of them are immune).

Full buff or debuff caster can be done with a bard. I have one in PFS that wrecks a lot of modules, Dirge Bard with a level dip into Crossblooded Serpentine/Fey sorcerer.

All his enchantment compulsions have +2 DC, and work on corporeal undead, beasts, magical beasts, and Monstrous Humanoids as if they were humanoids who shared a language.

Notable moments, level 2 sleeping a room full of skeletons. Level 6 charm person on a Dire Lion (before combat started, and with a wand of speak with animals it was a 6 hour bodyguard). Level 8 Charm Person on a Bullette, had it follow us through the module and Landshark the BBEG. Hold Person on undead, harpies, whatever. Most of the Bard offensive spells are compulsions, so built full caster with focus/gr focus they are insane. Piercing Rod gets through SR, and since I chose to dump strength my unseen servant carries everything for me.

The buffs are as follows: Good Hope(precast, minutes per level), +2 to rolls. Inspire Courage, +2 to rolls (move action). Haste +1 attack and other benefits (standard). At level 9, I took Improved Dirge of Doom and now I Blistering Invective (-2 rolls enemies) and Dirge of Doom (upgrade to frightened so they run or cower) if that looks like a better setup.

Masterpieces are also Amazing (assuming Human or Scion of Humanity Aasimar to use the FCB to get them with spells known). Low level Triple Time, +10 ft movement to allies for hours per 1 round of performance, so med/heavy armor is full speed. There's one that makes people nauseated, there's one that forces a concentration check or you are staggered (cast that on a martial and they have to roll a base die and beat your DC with no caster level/stat to add).

[tonyz]

One other thing to note: Ask your fellow players what buff spells they would like. They may come up with ideas that surprise you.