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With the release of the Advanced Class Guide, Pathfinder has again increased its available options. While I was initially somewhat disappointed by the redundancy, I've since refocused myself on figuring out what's left.
In other words: When you think of high fantasy literature, film, or folklore, there are certain archetypes that come to mind. Conan the barbarian, Merlin the wizard, Aragorn the ranger, etc. While Pathfinder covers most of these bases with its class selection, there are undoubtedly some classic tropes that remain unexplored.
I would personally love to see an official take on the tinker, the steam and clockwork engineer that's a staple in several fantasy worlds. Which classes do you think Pathfinder should release to fill in the rest of the gaps?
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What I think of that should be Things Yet to Come in Pathfinder:
The Psionicist
You are capable of many powers most unusual; biokinesis, telepathy, jaunting, telekinesis, precognition, psychic shielding, perhaps even pyrokinesis. Of course, there's always the risk that you might cause serious injury to yourself as a result of your powers, but hey, no risk, no reward, right?
The Sentinel
You feel totally at home in adamantine full plate. Good thing, too; because you are good at protecting your comrades in arms and punishing opponents who think it's a good idea to actually attack your stalwart band.
The Thaumaturge
You are a magician, yes, but you aren't exactly in total control of the spells that you cast. And apparently that Arcane Sea doesn't quite hold to the nonsense that, say, Burning Hands always has to do Fire damage. Most of your spells can be modified, whether to affect one or a group, or to do a random type of energy damage.
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More of a sword and sandals trope, yet how about the classically trained fighter / scholar?
Most Greek mythological heroes had some training in wits as well as weaponry. Perhaps a variant Bard / fighter hybrid class could be made (performances usually oratory or poetry)?
More of a sword and sandals trope, yet how about the classically trained fighter / scholar?
Most Greek mythological heroes had some training in wits as well as weaponry. Perhaps a variant Bard / fighter hybrid class could be made (performances usually oratory or poetry)?
You don't think Skald can do that?
Skald seemed to have a bit of rage mechanic in it that works for recent Hollywood sword and sandal characters, though not so much the more even-tempered portrayals of the sword and sandal films of the 1960s and 70s.
Skald seemed to have a bit of rage mechanic in it that works for recent Hollywood sword and sandal characters, though not so much the more even-tempered portrayals of the sword and sandal films of the 1960s and 70s.
I think that is easier fixed with an "Urban Skald" archetype that follows the Urban Barbarian's footsteps, rather than an entirely new class.
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The Dedicated Shapeshifter
Yeah, I 100% agree with this one. It's a shame that Pathfinder's version of the druid is a dusty old holdover from earlier editions of D&D, where shapeshifting is limited to a certain number of uses per day, yet lasts for hours at a time. Pathfinder could definitely use a class like this, or at least a druid archetype that traded away most of its other abilities and maybe even slowed its spell progression in exchange for unlimited shapeshifting between set forms that increase in power as the character levels up.
Also, can we finally get an official, stand-alone priest class? Cleric spell list, but no armor. Maybe they gain more of their deity's domains as they level up and can channel energy in cool, tactical ways (How about a positive channel that also sheds lasting light or a channel negative that drains hit points and gives them to the priest?)
A class that focuses on constructs. Perhaps even has a construct companion similar to a summoner's eidolon.
The same thing for necromancy.
An unarmored nonmagical melee class that uses weapons other than monk weapons and can also reasonably work with two-handed weapons.
A martial class that gets eidolon evolutions on themselves.
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I think most schools of wizard magic can be spun off into dedicated classes; transmutation even into multiple directions.
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Can't believe no one mentioned this yet, but Artificer. Could be (and has been) interpreted in dozens of different ways (and there's even a few ways to mimic parts of it in Pathfinder already).
Red Mage - The guy who knows a little of everything, but is ultimately master of none.
White Mage - Where's my arcane healer?
Several Psionic classes.
Gladiators perhaps?
Truename/Ancient Language magic (that is better than Words of Power) ala Eragon.
Dragon Riders while I'm on the subject.
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White Mage - Where's my arcane healer?
Advanced Class Guide. It's an Arcanist archetype.
Oh yeah. I guess I skipped over that part. Whoops.
Sok. It's annoying to find - the actual ART of the White Mage (featuring the familiar "hooded white cloak with red runes on the trim" design of Final Fantasy's White Mage) is several pages prior to the actual archetype itself.
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. . .
The Psionicist
You are capable of many powers most unusual; biokinesis, telepathy, jaunting, telekinesis, precognition, psychic shielding, perhaps even pyrokinesis. Of course, there's always the risk that you might cause serious injury to yourself as a result of your powers, but hey, no risk, no reward, right?
. . .
The Thaumaturge
You are a magician, yes, but you aren't exactly in total control of the spells that you cast. And apparently that Arcane Sea doesn't quite hold to the nonsense that, say, Burning Hands always has to do Fire damage. Most of your spells can be modified, whether to affect one or a group, or to do a random type of energy damage.
Psion and Wilder. Classes Paizo did not translate and 3rd party has done faithfully and well.
The Sentinel
You feel totally at home in adamantine full plate. Good thing, too; because you are good at protecting your comrades in arms and punishing opponents who think it's a good idea to actually attack your stalwart band.
Synthesist Summoner and Aegis and Warlord and Warder... uhhmmm... Paizo and 3rd party done well.
I think most schools of wizard magic can be spun off into dedicated classes; transmutation even into multiple directions.
Abjuration: create smaller and greater forcefields on the fly to intercept enemy movement and attacks, counter spells, banish outsiders. Eventually, get good at reflecting spells back at their casters or any other target you like. Conjuration: we already have the Summoner, basically the inspiration for these other school specialists.
Divination: focus on either telepathy or precognition. The telepath might have some overlap with psionics. The precognition-based one could also overlap with magus, to make a warrior that's always a few steps ahead of his enemies. Evade their blows, duck under their cover because you can predict what they're going to do and so forth. Also, win at games of chance. Enchantment: perhaps the Witch/Bard already does this. Evocation: c'mon, you know you want to play a Real Blaster. Not the current paradigm, where you're either a tragic failure or a Dazing munchkin. You want a blaster that wins by actually blasting, not debuffing concealed as blasting. Get rid of wizard's versatility and make a blaster that gives the barbarian's DPR a run for its money. Illusion: current illusion spells seem rather rigid. A class based around illusion should have a more flexible system; definitely not a prepared caster. Maybe a power pool where you expend more power to create bigger illusions, or infuse them with more reality (shadow). Combine this with a good essay on how exactly disbelief works so that player and GM both know how those rules really work. Necromancy: we all want the Dark Lord to be an arcane caster, but currently clerics are so much better at raising undead. There's a design niche here for an undead-focused arcane necromancer, that either raises or puts down undead at least as good as a cleric. Also, really go nuts with Magic Jar and other possession style effects. Transmutation: there's lots of possibilities here. Machine-mages that make construct pets and animate objects, biomancers that create animal/plant/aberration pets (comparable to Eidolon but not an outsider), shapeshifters, telekinetics. Item-mages that can quickly create temporary magic items, and manipulate your and enemy magic items, redlining or suppressing them.
I also agree with this. Create specialized classes like the Dread Necromancer with smaller spell lists and more (and varied) class features. I can see magic suppression abjurers, good illusionist, and a plethora of other focused abilities.
Wilder really doesn't answer the Thaumaturge request, but Kinetecist Psion comes pretty darn close, especially with their ability to switch elements at-will rather than setting one active element then having to spend actions to change it later.
I would like a better version of the marshal/warlord concept, as I think the tactician fighter and the cavalier are both pretty lacking.
Most of the reset of these should probably be archetypes of existing classes, rather than new base classes. A fighting-shapeshifter, for example, could be an archetype of the ranger fairly easily, or the barbarian.
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*sigh* Can I please just have a PF version of the Warlock published officially? Pwease? Pwetty pwease?
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There's several different kinds of shapeshifter you could make actually;
Note that these classes pretty much ignore spellcasting, focusing on shapeshifting as their one main theme.
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*sigh* Can I please just have a PF version of the Warlock published officially? Pwease? Pwetty pwease?Wouldn't a warlock just be a male witch? Hexes are pretty close to the stuff the 3.5 warlock already did...
A male Witch is a Witch. This has been gone over countless times already elsewhere.
When most people ask for a conversion of the Warlock, they're wanting something with unlimited minor casting and/or an unlimited magical blast attack. The Witch offers neither of these, and Hexes while technically unlimited are hampered by their all-to-often "only use once per target per day" limitation, which works for the Witch, but isn't what someone's looking for when they say they want a conversion of the Warlock.
There's a 3rd-party PF Warlock that's pretty awesome, The Invoker. Despite the name, it doesn't have anything to do with Binders or 3.5's take on Pact Magic, beyond that your Invoker/Warlock powers come from making a deal with a supernatural entity and which entity you choose affects the kind of powers you have to a minor degree. I highly recommend it.
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Psion and Wilder. Classes Paizo did not translate and 3rd party has done faithfully and well.. . .
The Psionicist
You are capable of many powers most unusual; biokinesis, telepathy, jaunting, telekinesis, precognition, psychic shielding, perhaps even pyrokinesis. Of course, there's always the risk that you might cause serious injury to yourself as a result of your powers, but hey, no risk, no reward, right?
. . .
The Thaumaturge
You are a magician, yes, but you aren't exactly in total control of the spells that you cast. And apparently that Arcane Sea doesn't quite hold to the nonsense that, say, Burning Hands always has to do Fire damage. Most of your spells can be modified, whether to affect one or a group, or to do a random type of energy damage.
Nah, my problem is the Dreamscarred Press psion runs out of psionic power points. (Eventually.) I wanted something like Mass Effect's psi/biotics/whatever, where you can infinitely cast it per diem, you just have some cooldown/risk.
The thaumaturge I wanted was more like 13th Age's sorcerer, where most of its spells actually do Random Energy damage. (which can suck if you're up against something that's resistant or immune to lightning and you keep rolling lightning.)
Nah, my problem is the Dreamscarred Press psion runs out of psionic power points. (Eventually.) I wanted something like Mass Effect's psi/biotics/whatever, where you can infinitely cast it per diem, you just have some cooldown/risk.
The thaumaturge I wanted was more like 13th Age's sorcerer, where most of its spells actually do Random Energy damage. (which can suck if you're up against something that's resistant or immune to lightning and you keep rolling lightning.)
Hm. That's fair. I'd say there are some skill/fatigue spell variants out there that might fit your bill, but I haven't looked too closely.
I still think a wilder's surge ability makes it kind of random (is enervation going to screw me?...) and can add a lot of punch to blasting, but I see that's not quite what you are looking for now.
Still really good classes though...
A male Witch is a Witch. This has been gone over countless times already elsewhere.
When most people ask for a conversion of the Warlock, they're wanting something with unlimited minor casting and/or an unlimited magical blast attack. The Witch offers neither of these, and Hexes while technically unlimited are hampered by their all-to-often "only use once per target per day" limitation, which works for the Witch, but isn't what someone's looking for when they say they want a conversion of the Warlock.
There's a 3rd-party PF Warlock that's pretty awesome, The Invoker. Despite the name, it doesn't have anything to do with Binders or 3.5's take on Pact Magic, beyond that your Invoker/Warlock powers come from making a deal with a supernatural entity and which entity you choose affects the kind of powers you have to a minor degree. I highly recommend it.
Agreed on all points.
It strikes me that several conversions and homebrew have done the job already, some quite well... the only reason to ask Paizo to do something different is PFS.
On a pseudo related note, I did see a witch archetype for warlock that I liked a while back.
There is the Wandering Artist that Little Red Goblin Games made, but which I think would work very nicely for Pathfinder.
Some form of Cantor could be interesting, particularly since a lot of ritual ceremonies involve music and dance as part of them. I could even see some variant as a Whirling Dervish type - which could also work equally well as s fighter with some serious dance styles. I haven't read through all the Bard variants yet, so this could be there.
I do agree an ecclesiastical cleric would make sense. Such a cleric could be a very effective exorcist. May also follow the pantheon rather than a specific deity or, at least, be able to deal with more than one deity. To be honest, I think that the current cleric is much more like a priest/fighter hybrid that gets a lot more bang for its buck than a wizard/fighter ever does.
Maybe a psionicist/fighter ala the Jedi/Sith?
In a setting with more vehicles, there's always the ace driver/pilot who seems to be able to make a car/plane/boat/etc do things it really shouldn't be able to (not to mention is able to modify said vehicle in many strange ways).
There is the scholar/adventurer type - someone with an insane amount of knowledge about any subject (or, at least, a specific subject) who tends to have extraordinary luck when it comes to getting artifacts and treasures (particularly those related to their subject). Possibly could be an Indiana Jones type or like the titular Librarian character. The main character in National Treasure might also count. There may be archetypes that cover this already, though.
Some form of Cantor could be interesting, particularly since a lot of ritual ceremonies involve music and dance as part of them. I could even see some variant as a Whirling Dervish type - which could also work equally well as s fighter with some serious dance styles. I haven't read through all the Bard variants yet, so this could be there.
Nothing occurs to me off the top of my head, but I will look around.
I do agree an ecclesiastical cleric would make sense. Such a cleric could be a very effective exorcist. May also follow the pantheon rather than a specific deity or, at least, be able to deal with more than one deity. To be honest, I think that the current cleric is much more like a priest/fighter hybrid that gets a lot more bang for its buck than a wizard/fighter ever does.
I think the cloistered cleric archetype kind of handles the studious cloistered (non asian) monk. The ecclesitheurge is definitely more caster than warrior... I would agree with a pantheon-ish version of cleric, though.
Maybe a psionicist/fighter ala the Jedi/Sith?
Psychic warrior for Jedi Guardiand and Psion (Telepath or Kineticist or Seer) for Jedi Counselors. Possibly multiclass a little in Soulknife for a lightsaber like weapon.
There is the scholar/adventurer type - someone with an insane amount of knowledge about any subject (or, at least, a specific subject) who tends to have extraordinary luck when it comes to getting artifacts and treasures (particularly those related to their subject). Possibly could be an Indiana Jones type or like the titular Librarian character. The main character in National Treasure might also count. There may be archetypes that cover this already, though.
I'd say an archeologist bard keeps bardic knowledge and can pull out luck bonuses when necessary. He can be made to make a stupid good knowledge monger. Add in the improvisation and improved improvisation feats and he's even ok at things he doesn't have ranks in (but most of the time I'd probably rather use those feats for something else...).
. . . Binder Stuff . . . .
YES! ... I really liked that class. I got an even bigger kick when combining Binding and Incarnum. Mechanically they might not mesh well, but, thematically, binding outer souls and channeling soul energy into melds was just peanut butter and chocolate to me.
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The one that jumps to mind for me is a Final Fantasy style Dragoon. Nothing really covers it.
I think a crafter class would be nice too. Something that is like the Expert npc class but for players. Sometimes I want an epic bad ass blacksmith that is epic and badass as a blacksmith and not a fight or wizard that just so happens to also be good at blacksmithing.
Social classes would be nice too. Characters that actually focus on social skills or poltics or leadership.
Non-magical healer. Somebody to play the combat medic or doctor or herbalist or whatever.
Martial equivalent to the witch. Guy sells his soul to otherworldly power to transform into badass killing machine.
The scout from 3.5 because it was awesome.
I actually want to see an Alchemist gish. Somebody wanted to build a pirate gish and the first thing that jumped to mind was magic booze which then went right to alchemist.
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I'm a little nostalgic for the Hexblade from 3.5, warts and all. What would make a PF class feel like a Hexblade for me?
-full BAB, martial proficiency
-a debuffing or otherwise offensive class ability, as a sort of mirror to the Paladin's Lay on Hands
-4 levels of arcane spellcasting, or at least some other arcane class abilities, with a focus on non-undead-raising necromancy, enchantment, or other "save or suck" effects
Of course, the Hexblade had its own issues, but they didn't really bother me that much.
A dedicated Shapeshifter and an engineer/gadgeteer type character are popular requests that I agree with.
I would also really like a dedicated spy class, which would be focused on infiltration, sabotage, disguise, and all around intrigue. I think something like a Bard/Rogue would work well for it. Yeah you could probably build something like this already, but it would be interested to see what Paizo could do with when designing for this.
Some sort of class built around defense and armor...basically Iron Man the class would be nice. Would fit in well in a book with engineer.
A dedicated 1/2 BAB casting focused divine class. Although it would probably be really tough to balance and still have it remain useful given what the Cleric can already do.
Personally I suspect the Occult Adventures book will answer a lot of requests of things already mentioned in this thread.
I'm a little nostalgic for the Hexblade from 3.5, warts and all. What would make a PF class feel like a Hexblade for me?
-full BAB, martial proficiency
-a debuffing or otherwise offensive class ability, as a sort of mirror to the Paladin's Lay on Hands
-4 levels of arcane spellcasting, or at least some other arcane class abilities, with a focus on non-undead-raising necromancy, enchantment, or other "save or suck" effectsOf course, the Hexblade had its own issues, but they didn't really bother me that much.
The Hexcrafter archetype for Magus has always served me pretty well as a replacement Hexblade. It's not quite what you list here, but have you given it a try, just out of curiosity?
Classes I'd like to see
-Warlock: NO THE WITCH IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It is a 1/2 BAB, Intelligence Based Caster (which I think should have been a Wizard Alternate class). So that means if your favorite character was a 3.5 Warlock and you want to convert to Pathfinder, you either A.) have to complete redesign the character concept around Intelligence, or B.) You're S$+% out of Luck.
I want at will Spell-like abilities, I want an at will Energy blast, and I want it mixed in with making different Pacts with different entities.
-Doctor/Combat Medic: There is a definite HOLE in the healing classes that needs to be filled. Yes the cleric is a better Magical Healer. But more often in movies or literature the "Healer" isn't casting a healing spell, they are bandaging up the wounds of their comrades. Currently there is nothing to use to this character concept.
The Chirurgeon archetype gets part of the way there, but it doesn't go far enough (IMO).
-An Engineer/Artificer: I want a class that is good at Building and Repairing things that can accomplish Spell like effects but with gear head/technology based abilities. I was hopeful to see something like this come out in the most recent Technology Guide and I was disappointed to find nothing of the sort...
-Binder: Pact magic. Yes please. Hell, maybe even fuse it together with the Warlock.
-I would love a dedicated shape shifter. Maybe something modeled along the Synthesist Archetype, but as a full base class, where as you gain levels you can add Eidolon evolutions to YOURSELF, and still have the flexibility to change those evolutions (kind of like the Martial Versatility thing the brawler has going on).
There are still a lot of different character types that have yet to be represented by any of the existing core, base, hybrid classes. If any more new classes come out I would like to see Paizo pioneer NEW CLASSES with new abilities.
So... many... things... I want to... respond to... must... resist.
The Hexcrafter archetype for Magus has always served me pretty well as a replacement Hexblade. It's not quite what you list here, but have you given it a try, just out of curiosity?I'm a little nostalgic for the Hexblade from 3.5, warts and all. What would make a PF class feel like a Hexblade for me?
-full BAB, martial proficiency
-a debuffing or otherwise offensive class ability, as a sort of mirror to the Paladin's Lay on Hands
-4 levels of arcane spellcasting, or at least some other arcane class abilities, with a focus on non-undead-raising necromancy, enchantment, or other "save or suck" effectsOf course, the Hexblade had its own issues, but they didn't really bother me that much.
I agree with this. As an alternate option, try out a Gifted Blade Soulknife and just pick powers that you feel would fit the theme. I'd even ask your DM if he'd let you swap your list with the Dread list to better fit a Hexblade.
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For those looking for a dedicated shape shifting class, please take a look at the Skin-Changer class in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press.
The class has been very well reviewed and may well be just what you are looking for!
Oh, and for those who mentioned wanting a white mage/arcane healing class, be sure to check out the White Necromancer class in the same book.
In fact, I would humbly recommend that anyone looking for new Pathfinder classes give the New Paths Compendium a good look :)
Maybe something modeled along the Synthesist Archetype, but as a full base class, where as you gain levels you can add Eidolon evolutions to YOURSELF, and still have the flexibility to change those evolutions (kind of like the Martial Versatility thing the brawler has going on).
For this, the Masquerade Reveler barbarian archetype seems right up your alley. Rage is replaced with "Masks" of combined Eidolon evolutions, with feats and class abilities that allow switching between Masks, combining Masks, spending extra Rage rounds on more powerful Masks than the norm, etc. etc. etc. Just reflavor toward/away from the fey theme as needed.
I think that given the BAB, the 4-level arcane casting, the saves, etc, that you could do a hexblade best as an archetype of bloodrager.
I'm with those that say the Warlock conversion type PF class isn't here yet.
Dragonriders would be another that someone mentioned.
How about conversions of the OA classes (though some would say they were just reflavored Wizards or clerics) like the Shukenja, Wu-Jen, Sohei, Yakuza, and Bushi?
In regards to talk of casters dedicated to specific schools, there is the Sublime Transmuter and Sacred Necromancer by Zombie Sky Press. I haven't had a chance to play the Necromancer, but the Transmuter was a lot of fun.
They are essentially revamped Oracles, as they use a Mystery/Revelations like system and each is a full caster that gets all spells, either arcane or divine, from their class focused school, but only from that school. Transmuter also has a very cool mechanic that lets you take a higher level spell as an at-will like a cantrip, but you can only have one at-will per day. For example my level 10 character had Telekinesis at will.
The Primal Dream path for Transmuter is the dedicated shapeshifter a lot of people want; you get the beast shapes spells at will and can get some great revelations to improve it. One lets you take abilities from a one step higher beast shape, another lets you "combine" forms to get extra abilities your chosen shape wouldn't otherwise have, one combines the vermin shape line into beast shape for your at will, and one very high level one lets you start being able to use extraordinary/supernatural abilities of your form beyond the scope of beast shape. I hope to try that someday.
The clockwork mage with a robot buddy and the undead-controller could both be archetypes of the summoner fairly easily, with the right modifications to the base eidolon chasis and some new evolutions.
Beguiler
Artificer
Dread Necromancer
Full BAB class with more than 4 levels of spellcasting
A 1/2 BAB Divine caster
A class that doesn't get spells/SLAs, using a level based casting system.
I'd say a fighter with a lay on hands type mechanic for healing himself that wasn't tied to an alignment. Most fighters are on the front line and could use a swift action self heal or at the very least a damage reduction of some kind.
There is a pathfinder final fantasy rpg out there. Has way tons of cool stuff. Classes are a lot of classical Final Fantasy stuff and even archtypes and prestige classes. And its free and pdf and updated alot. And if you don't care about the update amount then just download the 780 page core pdf book they have. It has most of the data up there as it was finally updated like ah few months ago. They got classes of Dragoon, geomancer, necromancer, red mage, and if you download the pdf, ah engineer class. And that is not talking about the tons of prestige classes ripped from FF games. I mean they even have ah arithmetician prestige class, or math and stats use, for you FF tactics people. Sheese I have everything they have posted up in ah file on my computer. And its free and epic. http://www.finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/index.html
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A dedicated 1/2 BAB casting focused divine class.
The version I came up with (the "priest") was basically that. What set them apart from clerics was more uses of channel energy per day (that scaled as the priest leveled up), the ability to spontaneously convert any spell into a domain spell of equal or lower level, and a bunch of new variant channel abilities.
For example, they could add a bull rush component to their positive channel used to harm undead, or a life draining aspect to channel negative. They got a new channel ability every four levels, so eventually they had a bunch of new situational ways to use the power.
On top of all this, they got a new domain at 5th and every 5 levels thereafter. By 20th level, that gave them 6 total domains! How does that sound?
I'm with those that say the Warlock conversion type PF class isn't here yet.
Dragonriders would be another that someone mentioned.
How about conversions of the OA classes (though some would say they were just reflavored Wizards or clerics) like the Shukenja, Wu-Jen, Sohei, Yakuza, and Bushi?
Based on what little information we have gotten, it sounds like the Kineticist from Occult Adventures might fill the "warlock niche"
Skald seemed to have a bit of rage mechanic in it that works for recent Hollywood sword and sandal characters, though not so much the more even-tempered portrayals of the sword and sandal films of the 1960s and 70s.
Dang, now I want to revisit my theory-crafting of Judah Ben-Hur.
Also, these mentions of desiring a half BAB divine caster do sound nice. Maybe get some extra skill points so they can act as a textbook as well? Maybe one extra slot...