Metamagic Advice for Conjurer

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Level 10 conjurer. Focuses heavily on bf control; drops damage as necessary. Rod of persistent lesser. Choosing among dazing, heighten, and quicken. On one hand, quicken will only apply to first level spells, how many fifth level spots will I spend on quickened grease? On the other hand, dazing really doesn't standout as great until fireball and sixth level slots.

Any thoughts? Any other metamagic feats to consider? I have craft wonderous, we don't have enough downtime to make a second crafting feat viable; I considered craft rod.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[Rerednaw]

Sorcerer or Wizard?
Do you have his current build?
Stats, race, feats, other special gear?
Spells Known?
Favorite spells?
Type of campaign (power level?) and what kind of point-buy?
Party makeup?

If you want to specialize in a spell, single or double trait it with Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage. Drops effective spell slot by 1 or 2 for a spell of choice.

Quicken Spell is solid.

Other than that, in a void, and assuming you already have Spell Focus since you are heavily battlefield control, I would actually consider Greater Spell Focus. Or if you have a familiar already, Improved Familiar.

Cheers.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Wizard. Bonded item. Teleportation Subschool. Lots of pits, stinking cloud, glitterdust, higher levels have been a real mix of spells, such as baleful polymorph, ice prison, hungry pit, enervation, and occassionally cloudkill. Only opposition school is enchantment.

Strong initiative, goes first more often than not, 28 INT, I don't recall the specifics of the other stats off hand, but very high DEX, decent CON, weakish in the other mental stats, but pretty strong in saves. Ring of Counterspells: Feeblemind. Uses a good amount of transmutation, necromancy, and evocation in battle, but mostly tends to throw conjurations out there and will often summon a critter or two (I have augment summoning).

I am considering going for Spell Perfection, so I'd need the metamagic feats, but I am not even sure what spell I'd use it on. Generally a very solid, well-defended character. Usual encounters are about CR + 3, party has a cleric, rogue/swash, fighter, and bard. I usually try to make the battle manageable and then fling some some damage or hang back while the party handles things.

I am leaning quicken over dazing because despite requiring an extra spell level I feel as if a quickened grease might be more useful than dazing flaming sphere, for instance. But once sixth level slots come on line, fireball will be worth dazing. My traits are one of the initiative ones and the perception as class skill one, so no metamagic boon traits.

Any further thoughts would be useful.

[ZomB]

The level 10 metamagic feat is the tricky one. Really you just use it to get ready for level 11 when you have 6th level spells come online and you can daze or quicken higher level spells. Plan out the next few levels and work out what you _have_ to take at this level to make that work.

Dazing 5 magic missiles or snapdragon fireworks isn't terrible.

Quickened is also useful because it doesn't provoke.

Craft rod isn't bad to get the lesser quicken rod and the dazing rod. Though staff of the master took away some if its lustre. Also would be tempted to take quicken as a feat due to its cost as a rod and just buy the other rod.

With the lesser persistent rod, presumably you are already having fun with Slow and Glitterdust (and the slow/icy prison killer combo), and multiple rods can give you analysis paralysis of which one to have out ;-)

[bfobar]

At level 10, why not take the opposition research feat since you cast a wide variety of spells? The nice thing about conj wizards is that you don't have to blow all your feats trying to soup up one spells. Take the generalist flavor further.

Quicken metamagic is best as a lesser rod. that lets you toss out your 1-3 level spells on top of your heavy hitters in the same round and doesn't tie up the high level slots.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Great thoughts guys. I've already grabbed opposition research at 9. Love necromancy, but felt like I could live without it until 9. The only lower level necromancy spell I really think I missed the whole time was spectral hand.

I am planning on buy a second rod of persistent lesser which should be sufficient for any day. I want to craft fog-cutting goggles soon. I have ultimately decide to go with quicken, since I'd rather wait on fireball (actually electroball, my dm allowed me to choose it specifically because it fits my character better) for dazing. I won't use it often, but I could see quickened shield or grease coming in handy. Also just another level until I can quicken pits and webs.

Can one quicken summoned monsters?

[Skorn]

I have seen some pretty spectacular effects laid down with Dazing Stone Call. Its a 40' r spell and medium range. A lot of enemy can fit into a 40' radius.

And no, you cannot quicken summon something that takes more than a standard action.

[Jayder22]

You can use Quicken Spell Metamagic on Summon Monster. You just cannot use it on spells that take longer than one round or one full round action to cast.

[thegreenteagamer]

Why would you want to, though? How could a monster summoned 4 spell levels (8 class levels!) below potential meaningfully contribute to the battle?

[Create Mr. Pitt]

I probably wouldn't want to; but you never know what can come in handy. Quicken is expensive no matter what, but I can see quickened level 2 spells being incredibly useful as compared to level 1. In any event, I suspect it's more fun for everyone than constant dazing.

[thegreenteagamer]

Oh, there's plenty of spells I can see being useful to quicken, but summon spells just aren't in that category.

[Emmanuel Nouvellon-Pugh]

Sorry but I have to say Sacred Geometry.
Run this here http://repl.it/languages/Python to maximize the benefit of it and as a prepared caster you benefit the most from this

"""
sacredgeometry.py
This script is to be used with the Pathfinder RPG feat "Sacred Geometry," released
in the Occult Mysteries Campaign Setting sourcebook.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sacred%20Geometry

Inputting the results of a dice roll will determine if it is possible to apply
the Sacred Geometry feat to the results, returning the first result found for a prime
constant as listed by the feat.

This script terminates itself as soon as it finds a solution to the given input.
"""

import itertools
import re

OPS = ('+', '-', '*', '/')

class Expr:
"""An Expr can be built with two different calls:
-Expr(number) to build a literal expression
-Expr(a, op, b) to build a complex expression.
There a and b will be of type Expr,
and op will be one of ('+','-', '*', '/').
"""
def __init__(self, *args):
if len(args) == 1:
self.left = self.right = self.op = None
self.value = args[0]
else:
self.left = args[0]
self.right = args[2]
self.op = args[1]
if self.op == '+':
self.value = self.left.value + self.right.value
elif self.op == '-':
self.value = self.left.value - self.right.value
elif self.op == '*':
self.value = self.left.value * self.right.value
elif self.op == '/':
self.value = self.left.value // self.right.value

def __str__(self):
if self.op:
return "({0}{1}{2})".format(self.left, self.op, self.right)
else:
return "{0}".format(self.value)

#Determines if a solution contains the correct number of dice
def stringChecker(aString):
return len([s for s in re.split(r'[\(\)\+\*-/]+|string', aString) if s])

def SearchTrees(current, target, numbersLength):
#current is the current set of expressions.
#target is the target number.
#numbersLength is the number of dice used
for a,b in itertools.combinations(current, 2):
current.remove(a)
current.remove(b)
for o in OPS:
# This checks whether this operation is commutative
if o == '-' or o == '/':
conmut = ((a,b), (b,a))
else:
conmut = ((a,b),)

for aa, bb in conmut:
# You do not specify what to do with the division.
# I'm assuming that only integer divisions are allowed.
if o == '/' and (bb.value == 0 or aa.value % bb.value != 0):
continue
e = Expr(aa, o, bb)
# If a solution is found, print it
if (e.value == target and stringChecker(e.__str__()) == numbersLength):
print e.value, '=', e
return 0
current.add(e)
# Recursive call!
SearchTrees(current, target, numbersLength)
# Do not forget to leave the set as it were before
current.remove(e)
# Ditto
current.add(b)
current.add(a)

def main():
numbers = input('Dice results as an array here w/syntax [a, b, ..., n]> ')
poolSize = (len(numbers))
spellLevel = input('Effective spell level> ')
initial = set(map(Expr, numbers))

#Effective spell level of 1
#try except allows script to terminate from recursive function calls gracefully
#downside: If the user/script screws up, no error message will be given
if(spellLevel == 1):
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 3, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 5, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 7, poolSize)
except: pass

#Effective spell level of 2
elif(spellLevel == 2):
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 11, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 13, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 17, poolSize)
except: pass

#Effective spell level of 3
elif(spellLevel == 3):
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 19, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 23, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 29, poolSize)
except: pass

#Effective spell level of 4
elif(spellLevel == 4):
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 31, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 37, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 41, poolSize)
except: pass

#Effective spell level of 5
elif(spellLevel == 5):
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 43, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 47, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 53, poolSize)
except: pass

#Effective spell level of 6
elif(spellLevel == 6):
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 59, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 61, poolSize)
except: pass
try:
SearchTrees(initial, 67, poolSize)
except: pass

[thegreenteagamer]

Sacred Geometry? Really?

I consider myself moderately vocal about not banning things. If you peruse my previous comments on many threads you'll see that. Or you could read below.

My Opinion on Banning Stuff:

I think 99% of the time a GM bans something because it's mechanically broken in their opinion, they should STFU and realize that if a player wants to break the game they'll find a way to do it with whatever classes/races/feats you happen to allow them (that's when you pull out the "ban the player" stick if talking to them doesn't work).

I think that more than half the time a GM bans something because it "doesn't fit the flavor of the campaign" they are looking too literally at classes and not realizing they're merely a set of mechanics and that what you are is defined by how you play your character. An inquisitor, for example, does not have to literally be an inquisitor of the church, but could be any type of divinely powered skilled character. A barbarian doesn't have to be a literal barbarian, but maybe a warrior with a serious anger problem. I think you get my point.

All that being said...

Sacred Geometry is the only thing I have found so far that gets banned 100% of the time when I'm GM. I haven't HAD to yet, but if it comes up, definitely.

Why?

Math isn't everyone's thing. I don't want to wait while my player figures out if/how to use Sacred Geometry. I doubt the other players will, either. Even if the player in question is a serious math-o-phile, the odds of the entire party being so are slim to none, and I'm pretty sure they don't want to wait around either.

And yes, you could do all your math during your turn, but then either I have to accept you're able to use your feat when you say you are, which, hey, I might as well never look at your dice rolls either or your character sheet and just assume you're right all the time, or I otherwise have to check your math. I don't want to do that either.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Sacred Geometry and Lesser Dazing Rods are no go's. I understand both decisions. I am pretty efficient as is. I can't decide if I should go for spell perfection. I can get +2 conj as I double focused. But what spell; I like having diversity. Stinking cloud, pits, glitterdust. Chains of Light would be intriguing. I'd want something versatile, but probably reflex save focused. I'd like to do it with Hungry Pit, but it'd be useless against fliers. On the other hand maybe I take craft rod instead of taking a bunch of metamagic feats and focus on a different line of feats altogether.

[Emmanuel Nouvellon-Pugh]

thegreenteagamer wrote:

Sacred Geometry? Really?

I consider myself moderately vocal about not banning things. If you peruse my previous comments on many threads you'll see that. Or you could read below.

** spoiler omitted **

All that being said...

Sacred Geometry is the only thing I have found so far that gets banned 100% of the time when I'm GM. I haven't HAD to yet, but if it comes up, definitely.

Why?

Math isn't everyone's thing. I don't want to wait while my player figures out if/how to use Sacred Geometry. I doubt the other players will, either. Even if the player in question is a serious math-o-phile, the odds of the entire party being so are slim to none, and I'm pretty sure they don't want to wait around either.

And yes, you could do all your math during your turn, but then either I have to accept you're able to use your feat when you say you are, which, hey, I might as well never look at your dice rolls either or your character sheet and just assume you're right all the time, or I otherwise have to check your math. I don't want to do that either.

First of all I realize this feat is broken and addressed that by starting with a sorry, second of all this program displays the equation that is used to attain the meta magic, so I don't see where the checking comes in, so please run the program before you make baseless accusations attacking my good standing as a well versed player.