Explain diplomacy to me.

[claudekennilol]

Starting Attitude Diplomacy DC
Hostile - 25+ creature's Cha Modifier
Unfriendly - 20+ creature's Cha Modifier
Indifferent - 15+ creature's Cha Modifier
Friendly - 10+ creature's Cha Modifier
Helpful - 0+ creature's Cha Modifier

Does this mean that if an NPC is already Helpful, if the PC's make a diplomacy check that is within reason they essentially don't have to roll?

Or if they're trying to go from indifferent to helpful the DC is 25?

[Joana]

claudekennilol wrote:

Does this mean that if an NPC is already Helpful, if the PC's make a diplomacy check that is within reason they essentially don't have to roll?

Diplomacy wrote:

Once a creature's attitude has shifted to helpful, the creature gives in to most requests without a check, unless the request is against its nature or puts it in serious peril.

So yes.

claudekennilol wrote:

Or if they're trying to go from indifferent to helpful the DC is 25?

Diplomacy wrote:

The DC of this check depends on the creature's starting attitude toward you, adjusted by its Charisma modifier. If you succeed, the character's attitude toward you is improved by one step. For every 5 by which your check result exceeds the DC, the character's attitude toward you increases by one additional step.

If the NPC is Indifferent, the DC to improve his attitude by one step is 15 + his Cha modifier. If you beat the DC by 5 (20 + his Cha modifier), he becomes Helpful. So, assuming a 10 Charisma, you could make him Friendly by rolling an accumulated 15 and Helpful by rolling an accumulated 20.

[DominusMegadeus]

Basically, RAW Diplomacy is (Ex) mind control if you invest in it

...unless the DM makes everyone in the setting Unfriendly to you no matter what you're disguised as.

[claudekennilol]

Ok thanks. I misread that, I thought the DC to go from Indifferent to Friendly was 15 + cha + 5, since beating the DC by 5 or more would increase the attitude.

Are you allowed more than one check? Could it go from indifferent to friendly and then friendly to helpful? Or can attitude only be changed once?

[thegreenteagamer]

claudekennilol wrote:

Does this mean that if an NPC is already Helpful, if the PC's make a diplomacy check that is within reason they essentially don't have to roll?

If the NPC is already helpful, there's no reason to or benefit from rolling a diplomacy at all.

[Eltacolibre]

claudekennilol wrote:

Ok thanks. I misread that, I thought the DC to go from Indifferent to Friendly was 15 + cha + 5, since beating the DC by 5 or more would increase the attitude.

Are you allowed more than one check? Could it go from indifferent to friendly and then friendly to helpful? Or can attitude only be changed once?

can only change one step no matter how high you roll per day.

[claudekennilol]

Eltacolibre wrote:

claudekennilol wrote:

Ok thanks. I misread that, I thought the DC to go from Indifferent to Friendly was 15 + cha + 5, since beating the DC by 5 or more would increase the attitude.

Are you allowed more than one check? Could it go from indifferent to friendly and then friendly to helpful? Or can attitude only be changed once?

can only change one step no matter how high you roll per day.

Per PC or per NPC--meaning can multiple PCs try separately to increase attitude each once per day or can an NPCs attitude only go up once per day?

[Joana]

Eltacolibre wrote:

claudekennilol wrote:

Ok thanks. I misread that, I thought the DC to go from Indifferent to Friendly was 15 + cha + 5, since beating the DC by 5 or more would increase the attitude.

Are you allowed more than one check? Could it go from indifferent to friendly and then friendly to helpful? Or can attitude only be changed once?

can only change one step no matter how high you roll per day.

Incorrect.

Diplomacy wrote:

A creature's attitude cannot be shifted more than two steps up in this way, although the GM can override this rule in some situations.

Also, there's at least one trait that lets you shift a creature's attitude 3 steps (Silver Tongued, I think?). However...

Diplomacy wrote:

You cannot use Diplomacy to influence a given creature's attitude more than once in a 24-hour period. If a request is refused, the result does not change with additional checks, although other requests might be made.

"A given creature": So one attempt to improve attitude per NPC per day. There's no limit on the number of requests you can make, however.

[Eltacolibre]

claudekennilol wrote:

Eltacolibre wrote:

claudekennilol wrote:

Ok thanks. I misread that, I thought the DC to go from Indifferent to Friendly was 15 + cha + 5, since beating the DC by 5 or more would increase the attitude.

Are you allowed more than one check? Could it go from indifferent to friendly and then friendly to helpful? Or can attitude only be changed once?

can only change one step no matter how high you roll per day.

Per PC or per NPC--meaning can multiple PCs try separately to increase attitude each once per day or can an NPCs attitude only go up once per day?

The attitude of the npc doesn't change because someone else is talking right after. Only way around it, as far as I know its through magical means such as charm person and the likes. But don't be like these dumb people casting charm person right in front of someone...people always forget that charm person has visual and somatic components, which means everybody is seeing you chanting and moving your arms around to cast a spell.

[Caïen]

Eltacolibre wrote:

claudekennilol wrote:

Ok thanks. I misread that, I thought the DC to go from Indifferent to Friendly was 15 + cha + 5, since beating the DC by 5 or more would increase the attitude.

Are you allowed more than one check? Could it go from indifferent to friendly and then friendly to helpful? Or can attitude only be changed once?

can only change one step no matter how high you roll per day.

Not true.

PRD wrote:

You can change the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters with a successful check. The DC of this check depends on the creature's starting attitude toward you, adjusted by its Charisma modifier. If you succeed, the character's attitude toward you is improved by one step. For every 5 by which your check result exceeds the DC, the character's attitude toward you increases by one additional step. A creature's attitude cannot be shifted more than two steps up in this way, although the GM can override this rule in some situations. If you fail the check by 4 or less, the character's attitude toward you is unchanged. If you fail by 5 or more, the character's attitude toward you is decreased by one step.

A human with the Silver Tongued alternate racial trait can shift by 3 attitudes.

Advanced Race Guide wrote:

Silver Tongued: Human are often adept at subtle manipulation and putting even sworn foes at ease. Humans with this trait gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Bluff checks. In addition, when they use Diplomacy to shift a creature's attitude, they can shift up to three steps up rather than just two. This racial trait replaces skilled.

If you meant that you can only attempt one Diplomacy roll per NPC per day, then you're right. However, Half-Elves can do it twice per day if the fail by 5 or more.

Advanced Race Guide wrote:

Sociable: Half-elves are skilled at charming others and recovering from faux pas. If half-elves with this racial trait attempt to change a creature's attitude with a Diplomacy check and fail by 5 or more, they can try to influence the creature a second time even if 24 hours have not passed. This racial trait replaces the adaptability racial trait.

[Caïen]

There is also a trait quite useful:

Champions of Balance wrote:

Amiable Blunder

Your easygoing demeanor allows you to sometimes recover from potentially awkward social situations or even condemnatory faux pas.

Benefit(s): Once per day when you fail a Diplomacy check by 5 or more and would cause an NPC's attitude toward you to worsen, you can immediately attempt another Diplomacy check against the same DC as a free action. If you succeed at this second Diplomacy check, the character's attitude doesn't change, as though you had failed the original check by 4 or less.

[Joana]

claudekennilol wrote:

Per PC or per NPC--meaning can multiple PCs try separately to increase attitude each once per day or can an NPCs attitude only go up once per day?

Assuming you're trying to improve the NPC's attitude toward the whole party, there's only one check per day. However, everyone else in the party can attempt an Diplomacy check vs. DC 10 to Aid Another the main speaker; each one who succeeds gives the main diplomat a +2 bonus on his roll.