do I need a really good ranged weapon?


Advice


this is basically: should I have a traditional missile weapon in my EDC?

the setup: I've got a rogue character with a greataxe. For ranged attacks I'm reliant on the daggers and alchemist's flasks in my bandoleer, as well as a spring-loaded wrist sheath with a dart in it.

So, if there's a bad guy outside my melee range, I free-action switch to holding the greataxe in one hand, move and draw or move and swift draw whatever, standard throw it, free action go back to holding my greataxe two-handed. (2 free actions, 3 if drawing the dart)

If I had, say, a shortbow, here's what happens: free action drop the greataxe on the ground, move and draw the bow, free action draw the arrow and load the bow, standard shoot it. If I want my greataxe back, I have to spend time either going back to where I dropped it (I do not justify tying a greataxe to a two-foot elastic), move action to pick it up, move action to put away the bow, etc. (3 free actions, lots more move actions involved in weapon switching)

In other words, if I'm primarily a melee fighter, can I stick with throwables?

Scarab Sages

Yes, thrown weapons will serve for 90% of your ranged needs. However, I would still pick up a sling or shortbow to use when you need to fight a flying or otherwise unapproachable creature who is out of thrown weapon range.


Rogues don't usually have proficiency with Greataxes. Did you take a feat to become proficient with it? In this instance, you're better off taking Quick Draw instead. Spend a Move action to sheath your weapon, and draw your ranged weapon as a free action without needing to move. Most thrown weapons are range 10'. I'd also say your're better off with a crossbow.


The only real advantage of a (cross)bow is the vastly greater range. This comes into play when facing enemy archers or when fighting a flying opponent.
You can mostly get by just using throwing weapons, if you accept that there will be some encounters wher you spend the first couple of rounds either running into enemy fire or twiddling your thumbs waiting for the opponent to come in reach.
There is nothing stopping you from buying a bow or crossbow and some ammo just in case. Especially at 2nd or 3rd level a normal bow is relative cheap.


Every character should always have a ranged (not-thrown) weapon. Or some sort of at-will magical attacks with an equivalent range.

There will be times when you can't engage the enemy in melee (or don't want to). With no real ranged weapon, you would be sitting that fight out. With a ranged weapon, you can at least contribute some.

Scarab Sages

Cuup wrote:
Rogues don't usually have proficiency with Greataxes. Did you take a feat to become proficient with it? In this instance, you're better off taking Quick Draw instead. Spend a Move action to sheath your weapon, and draw your ranged weapon as a free action without needing to move. Most thrown weapons are range 10'. I'd also say your're better off with a crossbow.

I'm assuming Half-Orc for proficiency.


@Imbaticus man, a ranged weapon for just that 10%...well, it's not like I'm not spending money on stuff I'd need on chances smaller than that (looking at you, potion sponge of touch of the sea

@Jeraa when does acid splash get up to bow range?

Scarab Sages

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A sling is free. A shortbow is 30 gp. That is nothing.

Dark Archive

Yeah, pretty much every single one of my characters carries around at least a sling and some daggers they can throw if absolutely necessary. I've never had to use them before, in my experience, but I have them.


Even if you intend to normally use a thrown weapon as your ranged backup, I still think you should get a bow.

There have been quite a few instances in home games and a few in PFS games where the bad guys were just plain out of range for thrown weapons. Tower, across river, atop cliff, flying, mounted, etc...

Even if I don't want to use it very often, I just go ahead and buy a +1 or MW composite bow rated for my strength (or eventually with the adaptive property if my strength goes up and down a lot due to magic or rage). That way, if it happens I have something I can do other than curse and hide.

1st level, just buy a normal shortbow. (Maybe not with my initial cash, but as soon as I have just a little extra).
2nd or 3rd, level buy a MW composite short or long bow with the proper strength rating.
4th level, +1 enchantment (some things by this level just need magic to hurt).
5th level, adaptive property if needed.

If the party has a dedicated archer, I might delay those by another level. But I still get them. What if he dies or fails a SoS save?


We once had to engage in sniping for a specific mission, and no one's character had used their crossbows, but we all broke them out and took positions when the time came. Silly ogres standing on the walls.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

Even if you intend to normally use a thrown weapon as your ranged backup, I still think you should get a bow.

There have been quite a few instances in home games and a few in PFS games where the bad guys were just plain out of range for thrown weapons. Tower, across river, atop cliff, flying, mounted, etc...

Even if I don't want to use it very often, I just go ahead and buy a +1 or MW composite bow rated for my strength (or eventually with the adaptive property if my strength goes up and down a lot due to magic or rage). That way, if it happens I have something I can do other than curse and hide.

1st level, just buy a normal shortbow. (Maybe not with my initial cash, but as soon as I have just a little extra).
2nd or 3rd, level buy a MW composite short or long bow with the proper strength rating.
4th level, +1 enchantment (some things by this level just need magic to hurt).
5th level, adaptive property if needed.

If the party has a dedicated archer, I might delay those by another level. But I still get them. What if he dies or fails a SoS save?

The one without, follows him! When the one with the bow gets killed, the one who is following picks up the bow and shoots!


Cuup wrote:
Rogues don't usually have proficiency with Greataxes. Did you take a feat to become proficient with it? In this instance, you're better off taking Quick Draw instead. Spend a Move action to sheath your weapon, and draw your ranged weapon as a free action without needing to move. Most thrown weapons are range 10'. I'd also say your're better off with a crossbow.

He's probably a half-orc.

Grand Lodge

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At bare minimum, I always carry a Sling.


ohako wrote:
@Jeraa when does acid splash get up to bow range?

It doesn't. Attack cantrips usually have a range of Close (25 feet + 5 feet/2 levels), so you would need to be level 14 before you could even reach the range a shortbow gets as its first increment (60 feet).

But I never said to use cantrips.

Quote:
Or some sort of at-will magical attacks with an equivalent range.

I don't have all the Pathfinder materials. Its possible somewhere out there is a magical attack power useable at will that has comparable ranges to bows. I personally don't know of any, which is why I didn't list a specific ability.


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Imbicatus wrote:
A sling is free. A shortbow is 30 gp. That is nothing.

A sling WEIGHS nothing too (it has a - as weight, indicating it is negligible to the point of not being counted)

Slings are free, and weigh nothing. There is no reason not to have one other than the fact that it adds a tiny bit of clutter to your inventory page.

Even if you are a bow using ranger, having a sling as a back up hurts nothing. Having it as a back up to your proper back up hurts nothing.

If you get caught and your equipment stolen, then wearing the sling as a belt or something gives you options, especially since your GM would quite honestly forget it is there.

But yeah, undernormal circumstances, just sticking with spring loaded daggers should cover most of your problems. If something gets 50 feet away in the middle of a battle, then it starts being the archer and mage's job. I would still pick up a non masterwork short bow after a few levels, when the 30 gp seems like the quarter you give to a kid that wants gum from a gumball machine. But for early levels, and as a general plan for most circumstances, the dagger works.


A bow also offers more adaptability than daggers. Magic ammunition is cheaper and durable cold iron/silver arrows are easier to get than having to buy separate daggers for everything.

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