A full citation would be helpful in getting an authentic answer. As it sits, I can only go based off of speculation...
There you go Dark.
As for applying this to a flask of holy water, I wouldn't think so. Since i don't think the vial is considered a weapon or ammunition. I suppose some GM's might allow it.
When I first read about this item, I thought it was just another weapon blanch, but then I noticed that this one runs out. The other ones you can apply before heading out and keep them around until you need them. These you need to take the time in combat to apply the balm. Not a bad item.
As for applying this to a flask of holy water, I wouldn't think so. Since i don't think the vial is considered a weapon or ammunition.
Launching crossbow? You can use a flask of holy water as ammo for that.
Thought of that after I posted. Could work but I'd still say there's probably going to be some variation.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It says "any magic weapon coated". The weapons section of magic items says, "Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon."
Since the ammunition fired is treated as magic only for the purpose of DR, which ghost touch is not, I would say no, mundane arrows with balm shot out of a magic bow do not get ghost touch.
Why wouldn't ghost salt work on arrows?
"When rubbed onto a weapon that is then placed over a hot flame for a full round, ghost salt melts and forms a temporary coating on the weapon. The blanching gives the weapon the ability to do full damage to incorporeal creatures, even if the weapon itself is nonmagical."
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, holy weapon balm can be applied (as a standard action) to 10 pieces of ammunition. The balm lasts for 1 minute. Any undead or evil outsider takes an extra 2d4 (possibly an extra 1d4 on top of that) if it gets hit.
So, it's sort of like holy water that you can grease your weapons with. Okay...holy water you can use once (5 times in theory with a battle aspergillum), and you deal 2d4 damage. A stack of arrows that you balm up can be used by other party members and you get that +2d4 damage chance 10 times.
My question: really?
Using that logic, a club deals infinite damage for free. : D
Oh! Here's a real rules question. This stuff makes nonmagical arrows act as magic vs. incorporeal undead, but it also makes magical arrows act as ghost touch arrows. If you balm up nonmagical arrows, and fire them with a magical bow, do they gain ghost touch?
Not really, Given the recent "oops, arrows from a magical bow should really count as magic for hitting incorporeal creatures, our bad" design statement, it might be open for RAI debate. (Edit: FAQ link appears to be broken. Here's the forum post.)
I'll say with that FAQ that mundane arrows fired from a magic bow probably should count as ghost touch if they have holy balm on them.
|
When applied to a weapon as a standard action, the weapon deals an additional 2d4 damage to undead or evil outsiders. a creature affected must succeed at a DC 10 Reflex save or take an additional 1d4 damage the following round. Any nonmagical weapon coated affects incorporeal undead or evil outsiders as if it were a magic weapon. Any magic weapon coated affects incorporeal undead or evil outsiders as if the weapon had the ghost touch special ability. The balm remains effective until you make a successful attack with the weapon or until 1 minute has passed, whichever is sooner. Each dose can coat one weapon or 10 pieces of ammunition. Price: 30 GP Weight: 1/2 lb
Let's try to get a sequence of how this stuff is applied to arrow, as I think it hasn't well thought off.
Start with 2 empty hands, a quiver, a bow on your back, the balm in a pouch
Round 1. Draw balm (move action)
draw 10 arrows (another move action)
Round 2. Standard action, coat the arrows
Move action put the arrows in the quiver
Round 3. Ready your bow ((move action)
Fire 1 arrow.
Don't seem very efficient. You need the right conditions to make it worthwhile.
- * -
A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10.
Alchemical bonuses count for that limit?
RAI I think they should, RAW can be a problem.
|
Let's try to get a sequence of how this stuff is applied to arrow, as I think it hasn't well thought off.Start with 2 empty hands, a quiver, a bow on your back, the balm in a pouch
Round 1. Draw balm (move action)
draw 10 arrows (another move action)
The CRB says that "Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action." But in this case you're not gonna use it immediately, and 10 free actions might be stretching it a bit.
Round 2. Standard action, coat the arrows
Move action put the arrows in the quiverRound 3. Ready your bow ((move action)
Fire 1 arrow.Don't seem very efficient. You need the right conditions to make it worthwhile.
It's a bit awkward, but it can be improved. If you have a table or something nearby you could put them on the table to all PCs can grab them. Alternatively, use a squire or unseen servant. Or, the player who doesn't do archery anyway can apply the balm and function as squire for this combat.
- * -
A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10.Alchemical bonuses count for that limit?
RAI I think they should, RAW can be a problem.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. With the balm the arrows can affect incorporeal undead as if they had Ghost Touch. Meaning they don't actually get it, so you're not going over a +10 limit.
|
What about having a quiver with pouch in the bottom that fluids could pool in?
Move action to draw Holy Balm, swift action to poor balm into quiver thus coating arrow heads and being able to fire at least 1 arrow that round?
I know people will say "What about if you have more than 10 arrows in the quiver, how do you draw the right one?
Make a special quiver that has a secondary pouch that holds only 10 arrows and has said water proof pouch at the bottom?
This will allow you to use some of those craft skills.
|
|
@Raltus: it don't work that way.
When applied to a weapon as a standard action,
Very clear. One standard action will coat a weapon.
As it later say:Each dose can coat one weapon or 10 pieces of ammunition.
we can assume that 1 standard action will coat 10 pieces of ammunitions, but it require a standard action, not a swift or move action.
And you can't fire a missile weapon while holding 10 pieces of ammunitions in your hand.Retrieving them from the ground or a table is the "Pick up an item" action, a move action that provoke.
Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.
Drawing ammunitions is a free action, but it assume that the ammunitions are stored as such, not that they have been dropped to the ground, piled on a table or held by another character.
|
|
So really, it coats ten arrows lets say but you could only use 9?
Does the 10 rounds or 1 minute start once it has been applied, ie during the coating round?
or
Does it start the round after?
I still like my quiver idea, you could coat them all in a single round if they were all in the same quiver, doesn't state it has to be done one at a time. You really only need to coat the arrow/bolt heads. You would only cover the blade or striking point of a weapon not the hilt/pole/chain/handle.... or am I wrong?
|
|
1) rules + action economy
If it say that it require a standard action it require a standard action. Any method that allow you to do it with a less demanding action is a big advantage.
2) it start immediately. that is the norm. If you can fire only 1 missile each round you will be able to use only 9 missiles, but there are plenty of ways to fire more than 1 missile each round.
Eh, I'd allow it with move action (draw balm) standard action (pour balm into quiver coating 10 arrows). Bow stays readied the entire time. Next round, draw and fire as normal. Keeps it similar to the fighter with a sword in his hand. Move action draw balm. Standard action coat sword. Next round, swing away.
|
|
Is it not a free action to draw a potion from an area that is easily accessible?
I know to drink a potion is move action, the coating of items is a standard action quoted above in the description, so if you have said item in a belt pouch, you could draw it as a free action and dump it same as holy water as a standard action?
Again I could be wrong but I would rule that you could draw and pour all in one round.
Also it coats up to 10 arrows, so why not do 9 instead as your going to waste one anyway.
|
|
Is it not a free action to draw a potion from an area that is easily accessible?
I know to drink a potion is move action, the coating of items is a standard action quoted above in the description, so if you have said item in a belt pouch, you could draw it as a free action and dump it same as holy water as a standard action?
Again I could be wrong but I would rule that you could draw and pour all in one round.
Also it coats up to 10 arrows, so why not do 9 instead as your going to waste one anyway.
Retrieving a stored item is a move action. If it is a weapon like object it can be retrieved while you move at your base movement speed.
Drinking a potion is a standard action.
Retrieving and drinking a potion is a move+standard.
Pouring a potion in a container isn't the same thing as applying it.
Pouring a potion in a container isn't the same thing as applying it.
I agree, but "apply to 10 arrows" is the same action as "apply to sword". As long as the arrows are accessible to be fired, I don't see a reason to add additional action requirements for separately drawing them out and putting them back.
|
|
Pouring a potion in a container isn't the same thing as applying it.I agree, but "apply to 10 arrows" is the same action as "apply to sword". As long as the arrows are accessible to be fired, I don't see a reason to add additional action requirements for separately drawing them out and putting them back.
Arrows: An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as a light improvised weapon (–4 penalty on attack rolls) and deals damage as a dagger of its size (critical multiplier ×2). Arrows come in a leather quiver that holds 20 arrows.
If you pour something in a quiver, how you decide what arrow is coated and what arrow isn't?
And it is not a potion, it is a balm. AFIK they are more dense and flow with less ease than a liquid.
Arrows are held ready in a quiver, and it is a standard action to apply the balm to 10 of them. Fluff it however you want.
Necroing since it's still a good idea... -- I'd have a special quiver that only holds 10 arrows and has a second bottom in which the balm is. To keep action economy the same you'd spend a move to activate the quiver (i.e. pull a thing that opens the second bottom, similar to how you pull out those plastic thingies from toys with batteries) and then the standard to press down the arrows into the balm. By the time it's your turn again you're good to go.
For an extra 200 gp they're already coated with ghost salt (which is compatible since one is a blanch the other a balm and it's useful if you don't have a +1 bow already).
Alternatively for 400 gp we can have those 10 arrows be magical +1 (thus not needing the ghost salt blanch) and getting more damage and to hit (again unless you already have a +1 bow).
If you're really desperate for damage you can add undead bane for another +1 cost (including masterwork that's 175.05 gp per arrow), which adds 2d6+2 more damage and +2 more to hit.
1780.5 gp for 10 arrows (+1 undead bane and Holy weapon balm) totalling +3 to hit, arrow-base (i.e. 1d6 or 1d8 + str if comp) + 2d6 + 3 + 2d4 (let's ignore the additional 1d4 points of damage the following round since the enemy won't fail their DC10 Reflex save) => in the ballpark of 9 to 32 damage each!
It's a bit like combining a nerfed version of holy ghost touch and bane for the price of just bane. - plus sucks on action economy side... so I guess it's fair enough.