You can do it, but that 5' step combined with combat, would IMO, be considered moving fast, so I would give the -10 penalty for moving fast.
Actually the 5 foot step is not moving fast by the rules. There should not be a penalty at all, assuming you are trying to follow the rules.
@ nothing:
If someone moves 5 feet or 50 feet you would not know where to drop glitterdust if they successfully made the stealth check because you would not know where they were. Most likely they would move more than 5 feet so it would likely take some metagaming to know they did not move far unless the room was really small.
I do agree with warning a player up front about anything that might cause a problem. I also agree that one attack a round is not really all that effective, and that PC would likely be ignored.
Just to confirm what Shadowlord said. A 5 foot step is NOT a movement and would not qualify for stealthing.
Remember you can only take a 5 foot step if you did not take any movements that turn.
NOT any move action, but movement. Meaning you can draw a weapon as a move action and still take a 5 foot step, but if you walk, crawl, swim, fly, etc, those are movements.
Well, I am not sure where the disconnect happened but that is definitely NOT what I said.
It's a legitimate use of Stealth... As far as I am concerned, use of a 5' Step to initiate Stealth is legit.
If you thought that whole time that I was against it, I encourage you to re-read my post with the knowledge that I absolutely believe 5' step Stealth is allowed by RAW. I have also seen it in play in many games and I have never seen it as horribly over powered like some people fear it would be.
As Wraithstrike points out, a 5' step is actually defined as a legitimate movement. Therefore it qualifies for use with Stealth, by RAW.
Actually the 5 foot step is not moving fast by the rules. There should not be a penalty at all, assuming you are trying to follow the rules.
@ nothing:
If someone moves 5 feet or 50 feet you would not know where to drop glitterdust if they successfully made the stealth check because you would not know where they were. Most likely they would move more than 5 feet so it would likely take some metagaming to know they did not move far unless the room was really small.
I do agree with warning a player up front about anything that might cause a problem. I also agree that one attack a round is not really all that effective, and that PC would likely be ignored.After how many rounds of the guy attacking multiple times, circling his opponenet a little bit, disappearing, then attacking again next round would it stop being metagaming to guess that he hadn't moved far this time?
The point of doing the 5' step is so you can full attack and not be limited to 1/round.
I was only talking about going invis not continually attacking the same person.
I would not consider centering an AoE on the last square someone was seen in before disappearing as metagaming, but to each their own.@ nothing:
If someone moves 5 feet or 50 feet you would not know where to drop glitterdust if they successfully made the stealth check because you would not know where they were. Most likely they would move more than 5 feet so it would likely take some metagaming to know they did not move far unless the room was really small.
I guess it is just a difference in play style. Most people that gi invisible when I play will not stsy in the immediate area.
Meh. Does it really mean anything different than "I start using the Stealth skill"?Yes, because it has caused hundreds of newbies to, over and over, wonder if they can just approach a monster through the brightly lit room with no cover at half speed, making Stealth checks to be invisible.
Uh, to be fair. You can do that in 2e.
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Remind me never to post something in the middle of the night.
Ok, if a 5 foot step is considered movement, a character breaking stealth to perform a full round attack, would still only get the benefit of of attacking out of stealth on the first attack only right? After which he can re enter stealth by taking a 5 foot step.
OR
Does this means a character can break stealth, do 1 attack, 5 foot step to reenter stealth and then perform another break stealth for his 2nd attack?
This is concerning rogues, especially if they use range weapons. Aka then the use the 5 foot to perform 2 sneak attacks if they were stealth-ed from the start of their turn?
Remind me never to post something in the middle of the night.
Ok, if a 5 foot step is considered movement, a character breaking stealth to perform a full round attack, would still only get the benefit of of attacking out of stealth on the first attack only right? After which he can re enter stealth by taking a 5 foot step.
It's this one. As far as I remember, you can't take your 5 foot step in the middle of your full attack.
You absolutely can take a 5' step in the middle of an attack. I'm on my iPad or I'd quote the rule, but it's the second paragraph of the Full Attack entry in the Combat section of the CRB.
But I'm not really sure what the hullabaloo is here. You either have to already be right next to somebody to be able to step away and stealth again. Or, you have to 5' step up and then you're visible for the entire next turn (most of the time).
This thread concerns starting undetected. So you have to be next to them. Otherwise you can't move both before and after to get the conditions necessary to stealth (movement) without some very specific abilities. And frankly, if you've put in the feat investment to get Spring Attack, you deserve to be able to do something nice.
This might actually make a Rogue BBEG quasi viable and something of a threat in the right situations. I really don't see a problem here. Everybody criticizes sneak attack as being too situational. Don't complain about a situation where it might actually function decently well.
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@fretgod99,
I was envisioning a rogue archer here.
Given how powerful any archer build already is, this might make an unkillable rogue archer that can solo anything! With sneak attacks being pulled off each round.
And here people were saying rogues are weak...
Wait a min, with most HiPS builds, ANY archer can go sneaking to godhood!
Break stealth, shoot half a dozen arrows, 5 foot, stealth again!
Rogues get it better with evasion... or Zen archers! Super "can't touch me" builds!
@_@!!!
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There's actually a Pathfinder Society adventure where the main bad guy at the end is a rogue with 70 ft speed, Spring Attack, and Fast Stealth. At the higher tier, he also has Vital Strike.
His tactics specifically say that he starts out invisible, and uses spring attack to make one sneak attack per round, then go run around a corner and fast stealth to set himself up to do the same thing the following round. He does this as often as he can get away with.
One reason I'm asking is partly due to how sniping states that "You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location"
If hide in plain sight or hellcat stealth allows you to stealth without cover, won't that means sniping is pointless for a character that makes use of these 2 ability/feat? After all, why suffer a -20 to stealth if you can just walk 5-15 feet to a side and hide again? This time with no penalties. As long as you keep moving, you gain all the advantages of full stealth with no drawbacks.
If you attack, then move+Stealth, the enemy detects you for that moment after you attack but before you hide again. That means they know what you look like and where you were last seen.
If you attack and make your snipe roll, the enemy only knows that someone shot them--they don't see who did it, and at best they'll only know the direction from which they were shot.
My main beef with sniping is that the maximum range for ranged sneak attack is atrocious.