Fly Spell: The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet...
Spider Climb Spell: The subject gains a climb speed of 20 feet...
It is a subtle difference but quite important. Specifically:
"You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed."
The situation came up in my game last night and I ruled that characters using a fly spell could not take 5-foot steps while airborne which obviously put them at quite a disadvantage against natural flyers.
Did I get that right?
Thanks!
No, you didn't get that right.
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Fly gives you a Fly speed. Specifically, a 60' fly speed.
Spider Climb gives you a 20' climb speed.
Touch of the Sea gives you a 30' swim speed.
There are cases where there are important differences between similarly worded terms (Race Traits vs. Racial Traits, Character Level vs. Wizard Level vs. Caster Level vs. Spell Level), but the various "have this flavor of movement" spells are not such cases.
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Fly gives you a Fly speed. Specifically, a 60' fly speed.
Spider Climb gives you a 20' climb speed.
Touch of the Sea gives you a 30' swim speed.
There are cases where there are important differences between similarly worded terms (Race Traits vs. Racial Traits, Character Level vs. Wizard Level vs. Caster Level vs. Spell Level), but the various "have this flavor of movement" spells are not such cases.
I have to agree. This seems like a case of needlessly splitting hairs.
wouldn't you need the Hover feat to 5ft step while flying with good maneuverability?
1st You can't even take that feat because you need an innate fly speed to take it
2nd No, but if you don't move you have to make a Fly check
Or make the DC 15 Fly skill check to hover. *Ninjaed*
Thanks for the feedback. It would have been nice though to see some rules support. It just seems odd that a 5-foot step, which doesn't provoke an AoO because you are just shifting while maintaining your defense can be done in a unfamiliar movement mode that requires a skill check to actually not fall out of the sky when only moving 5-feet.
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If you're looking for rules support, you needn't look further than the Fly spell itself.
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a wing feather)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 min./level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears. The subject gains a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level.Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends safely in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.
Furthermore, even with a minimal caster level, you're gaining a +6 to Fly checks (+2 from CL, +4 from maneuverability). Granted, a Fighter in Full Plate will probably cancel that out real quick, but at least it's something.
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wouldn't you need the Hover feat to 5ft step while flying with good maneuverability?
Note that while fly give you a fly speed it is not a natural fly speed, so the modifier for the maneuverability don't apply:
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8. Creatures without a listed maneuverability rating are assumed to have average maneuverability.
Probably the part in the spell about good maneuverability is a leftover for the 3.X editions of the game.
On the other hand the creature using the fly spell get a bonus to his fly skill based on the caster level of the spell.wouldn't you need the Hover feat to 5ft step while flying with good maneuverability?1st You can't even take that feat because you need an innate fly speed to take it
2nd No, but if you don't move you have to make a Fly check
Move less than half speed and remain flying 10
Hover 15
5' is almost certainly less than half speed so the flye need to make a DC 10 check to stay in flight.
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On a related matter, if you are flying and try to make a 5' step, you can increase your altitude?
I think it is not feasible, as you have to spend 10' of movement, so it isn't a 5' step anymore.
Interesting thoughts Diego, this bit of info also tends to support not getting a maneuverability bonus from a fly spell.
Natural Abilities: This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like. *link*
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Unfortunately, as Diego's example shows, you'll obviously encounter table variation regarding the maneuverability granted by the Fly spell. I choose to go by what is written and not assume it is a copy/paste error, while others look a bit too deep into it for my tastes.
To me it is fairly clear that the benefit from good maneuverability has been replaced by the spell bonus.
Note this row in the Fly skill description:
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).
It show that the developers feel that there is a clear difference between flying naturally or using the fly spell.
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So, IYO, a Wizard who has been spending the majority of his 20th level career flying about the world, with max ranks in the Fly skill, who practices every day, several times a day, would not benefit from the +4 maneuverability?
I choose to believe "it's magic" and play the game.
Yes, he would benefit from a +10 from the spell instead of good maneuverability. I would say that he is clearly ahead.
The wizard is still shaped like a humanoid (no wings or other large surface area to catch air, not terribly aerodynamically shaped, etc) so it is only his/her skill and the magic of the spell that helps (IMO). That said, I can certainly see Nefreet's point of view.
I'd be happy if this was clarified either way. This is still the first version of the Fly skill rules and they need a bit of a clean up.