Teleportation Wizard - Eldritch Knight


Rules Questions


Does the Teleportation wizard's Shift ability quality a PC for early entry into Eldritch knight (Assuming Lore Warden 1/Teleportation Wizard 1)?


No, shift does not qualify for early entry. You would need to take the scryer sub school to qualify, or be a base aasimar.

Sczarni

"Shift" is a (Su) ability, not (Sp). The methods mentioned above are acceptable, though.


On top of that, Nefreet, the effect it uses is only a 2nd level ability.


so wait, is being a manipulator wizard enough to qualify as "casting 4th level spells" ? that seems extreme :S or does it need the phrasing "it otherwise behaves as"

Sczarni

A 1st level Elf with the Dreamspeaker alternate racial trait qualifies as "casting 5th level spells" =\

Liberty's Edge

Some Random Dood wrote:
No, shift does not qualify for early entry. You would need to take the scryer sub school to qualify, or be a base aasimar.
PRD wrote:
Send Senses (Sp): As a standard action, you place a scrying sensor at a point within medium range (100 feet + 10 feet/wizard level) that you can see and have line of effect to. You can see or hear (not both) through this sensor for number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). The sensor otherwise functions as a clairaudience/clairovoyance spell with a caster level equal to your wizard level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

You aren't casting a clairaudience/clairovoyance spell. There are similarities but the effect is noticeably different, as it require both a line of sight and a line of effect to the sensor location while clairaudience/clairovoyance say "You don't need line of sight or line of effect, but the locale must be known". So it don't qualify as a 3rd level spell.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Some Random Dood wrote:
No, shift does not qualify for early entry. You would need to take the scryer sub school to qualify, or be a base aasimar.
PRD wrote:
Send Senses (Sp): As a standard action, you place a scrying sensor at a point within medium range (100 feet + 10 feet/wizard level) that you can see and have line of effect to. You can see or hear (not both) through this sensor for number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). The sensor otherwise functions as a clairaudience/clairovoyance spell with a caster level equal to your wizard level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
You aren't casting a clairaudience/clairovoyance spell. There are similarities but the effect is noticeably different, as it require both a line of sight and a line of effect to the sensor location while clairaudience/clairovoyance say "You don't need line of sight or line of effect, but the locale must be known". So it don't qualify as a 3rd level spell.

According to both the FAQ and PFS you're absolutely wrong.

Sczarni

Diego, Send Senses is a (Sp) ability, or spell-like ability. It references the spell clairaudience/clairovoyance, which is a 3rd level Sorcerer/Wizard spell. It fulfills the requirements of needing to cast 3rd level arcane spells, which some Prestige Classes, such as Bloatmage or Eldritch Knight, call for.

HERE is a link to one of the many FAQs that was released last year, which, together, allow characters to qualify for a host of feats and Prestige Classes which they could not access previously.

Liberty's Edge

Maybe you two should read the FAQ and Send sense:

FAQ wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities and Item Crafting: Can I use a spell-like ability for an item's spell requirement?

Yes. Core Rulebook page 461, Requirements section, paragraph 2 says, "A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect."
For example, a demon with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and who has fireball as a spell-like ability can craft a +1 flaming sword, which has fireball as a prerequisite.

posted June 2013

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.

Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.

As I already said, Send sense isn't clairaudience/clairovoyance. It reference it, but it's effect is way different. Different enough that it is not the same spell.

What is the effect of casting clairaudience/clairovoyance?

PRD wrote:
Clairaudience/clairvoyance creates an invisible magical sensor at a specific location that enables you to hear or see (your choice) almost as if you were there. You don't need line of sight or line of effect, but the locale must be known—a place familiar to you, or an obvious one. Once you have selected the locale, the sensor doesn't move, but you can rotate it in all directions to view the area as desired. Unlike other scrying spells, this spell does not allow magically or supernaturally enhanced senses to work through it. If the chosen locale is magically dark, you see nothing. If it is naturally pitch black, you can see in a 10-foot radius around the center of the spell's effect. Clairaudience/clairvoyance functions only on the plane of existence you are currently occupying.

And the effect of using the SLA Send Senses ?

PRD wrote:
Send Senses (Sp): As a standard action, you place a scrying sensor at a point within medium range (100 feet + 10 feet/wizard level) that you can see and have line of effect to.[b] You can see or hear (not both) through this sensor for number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1). [b]The sensor otherwise functions as a clairaudience/clairovoyance spell with a caster level equal to your wizard level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

To repeat it: The sensor otherwise functions as a clairaudience/clairovoyance spell. The ability state that it is not clairaudience/clairovoyance but part of it work as "clairaudience/clairovoyance".

To qualify as the 3rd level spell clairaudience/clairovoyance it should do what the 3rd level clairaudience/clairovoyance spell do, not only part of it.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Actually, they're right. SLAs that aren't spells but reference existing spells are the same level as the spell they reference.

For reference.

Liberty's Edge

I still think that it is different enough that I wouldn't classify it as a 3rd level spell (with the LOS limitation it seem more a level 2 spell), but the SKR citation trump my opinion.


Nefreet wrote:
"Shift" is a (Su) ability, not (Sp). The methods mentioned above are acceptable, though.

I never considered the (Su) vs (Sp) difference with regards to this. Is that a rule of omission or is there a FAQ stating that spells granted by (Su) don't count?

Sczarni

(Su) means "Supernatural".

(Sp) means "Spell-like".

A good example is the Wayang ability to turn Invisible for up to 5 rounds 1/day. It's a (Su) ability, not (Sp). The benefit is that you can use it while adjacent to an enemy, and you won't provoke while doing so. The downside is that it doesn't qualify you for being able to cast arcane spells.

Grand Lodge

So, the real question is, can we find anything that has "able to cast level 5 spells" as a prereq?

:)

Sczarni

I don't think there is, IIRC, from reading the SLA threads a year ago.

And I can't recall anything that required level 4 spells, either.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Teleportation Wizard - Eldritch Knight All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.