Back to the original topic at hand, this is a gem that no one at my table even knew existed until I saw mention of it on the forums:
Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.
And we thought just the AoO was bad for not having the feats!
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Back to the original topic at hand, this is a gem that no one at my table even knew existed until I saw mention of it on the forums:
Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.And we thought just the AoO was bad for not having the feats!
This one kills people in PFS, so I have heard...
While I'll join in the chorus of people claiming that maouse is totally wrong on what the rule for DR says, I actually came here to cite my personal favourite for seldom applied rule.
Perception and distance modifiers.
In the dungeon, yeah they're pretty universally applied.
But outside? They're almost never applied. GMs actually let players see the city from a mile away and let them see the Sun despite it being probably thousands of miles away (its fantasy, I'm guessing its a chariot of fire or something :-)).
That is why I mentally allow size modifiers to be used (as in, it is doing a 'non stealth' check where it rolled a 0 and didn't use its usual modifiers). Yeah, just letting the sheer penalties to stealth allow it reduce the DC to perceive the thing when it is a clear line of sight (as in you can spot a large creature 40' further away than you would a medium one, and a collossal one from 160' more away).
That would be why the sun and mountains can be seen from far away, since they are such a size that their stealth checks would be in the -100's to -1,000,000's. ...actually, I think you could play with that idea for a space faring system (might need a critical chance to succeed though;ie- a kid with a telescope pointed at JUST the right place in space). I mean, it is not like the bestiary doesn't have space related creatures (heck, there are even varieties of space faring dragons)
Oh, and maouse is wrong. But hey, who wants to be broken record #12?
Killing someone with subdual damage:
You need to go all the way through their real hit point total, not just how many hit points they have NOW.
If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.
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Specific > than general.
In general you can't reduce damage below 1 point of nonlethal. In the specific case of DR you can.
Also:
The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability.
Note that you ignore the damage. Of course it is subtracted but the reason is important.
For example Shield of Swings halves your damage. So you roll your damage and subtract half. This is not a penalty. Your damage is halved.
Likewise a critical hit adds to your damage -- however it is not a bonus. It is an increase (typically by double but sometimes by triple or even quadruple and occasionally by quintuple the original amount).
So yes you do subtract from the damage you take -- no this is not a penalty to damage.
Interestingly it is the same language as energy resistance and immunity.
Please note this is the same basic idea of following:
Two adventurers go out and agree to split the loot in half. They kill the monsters get the loot stack it all up in the middle and the first one to pick his half says, "I'll take the bottom half". Well as he takes from the bottom more falls to the bottom and he proceeds to take that as well until there is no loot left for the other guy.
Wonder how many GMs actually apply this rule for DR/-, Damage Reduction, and anything else that mediates damage (such as a hit that is "absorbed" by a percentile ability).
** spoiler omitted **
I would say that "damage result" is the amount rolled plus it's modifiers. Damage resistance is applied to the result, not part of it. Consider a difference between "damage result" and "damage applied".
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Killing someone with subdual damage:
You need to go all the way through their real hit point total, not just how many hit points they have NOW.
If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.
Uh, you almost had it.
Non Lethal Damage is still done after going below 0. A character would die when the negative Non Lethal HP total reaches the maximum HP total. (I would think this would combine any lethal damage taken before the character passed out before going into negatives)
For example, I crit with a scythe doing non-lethal damage, for 147 points. The creature had 80 hp and this was the first very lucky hit. 147 - 80 = -67. The creature is stable and still alive. He would need to take 13 more non lethal damage to be killed.
Read both paragraphs, as the relevant passage is further done the page.
While I'll join in the chorus of people claiming that maouse is totally wrong on what the rule for DR says, I actually came here to cite my personal favourite for seldom applied rule.
Perception and distance modifiers.
In the dungeon, yeah they're pretty universally applied.
But outside? They're almost never applied. GMs actually let players see the city from a mile away and let them see the Sun despite it being probably thousands of miles away (its fantasy, I'm guessing its a chariot of fire or something :-)).
That is why I mentally allow size modifiers to be used (as in, it is doing a 'non stealth' check where it rolled a 0 and didn't use its usual modifiers). Yeah, just letting the sheer penalties to stealth allow it reduce the DC to perceive the thing when it is a clear line of sight (as in you can spot a large creature 40' further away than you would a medium one, and a collossal one from 160' more away).
That would be why the sun and mountains can be seen from far away, since they are such a size that their stealth checks would be in the -100's to -1,000,000's. ...actually, I think you could play with that idea for a space faring system (might need a critical chance to succeed though;ie- a kid with a telescope pointed at JUST the right place in space). I mean, it is not like the bestiary doesn't have space related creatures (heck, there are even varieties of space faring dragons)
you can't make a stealth check if something is in plain sight unless otherwise noted. mountains can't hide because they're in plain sight for hundreds of miles.
you can't make a stealth check if something is in plain sight unless otherwise noted. mountains can't hide because they're in plain sight for hundreds of miles.While I'll join in the chorus of people claiming that maouse is totally wrong on what the rule for DR says, I actually came here to cite my personal favourite for seldom applied rule.
Perception and distance modifiers.
In the dungeon, yeah they're pretty universally applied.
But outside? They're almost never applied. GMs actually let players see the city from a mile away and let them see the Sun despite it being probably thousands of miles away (its fantasy, I'm guessing its a chariot of fire or something :-)).
That is why I mentally allow size modifiers to be used (as in, it is doing a 'non stealth' check where it rolled a 0 and didn't use its usual modifiers). Yeah, just letting the sheer penalties to stealth allow it reduce the DC to perceive the thing when it is a clear line of sight (as in you can spot a large creature 40' further away than you would a medium one, and a collossal one from 160' more away).
That would be why the sun and mountains can be seen from far away, since they are such a size that their stealth checks would be in the -100's to -1,000,000's. ...actually, I think you could play with that idea for a space faring system (might need a critical chance to succeed though;ie- a kid with a telescope pointed at JUST the right place in space). I mean, it is not like the bestiary doesn't have space related creatures (heck, there are even varieties of space faring dragons)
The problem my 'non stealth check' is trying to solve is the part of perception where the DC to notice something raises by 1 for every 10' away. Eventually, there is a distance where the rules say you can't see anything (even if you logically could, such as a mountain or the sun).
So I let size modifiers do the work. I could also say that the size modifier lowers the perception DC to notice by X amount. Is that wording better for you
Non Lethal Damage is still done after going below 0. A character would die when the negative Non Lethal HP total reaches the maximum HP total. (I would think this would combine any lethal damage taken before the character passed out before going into negatives)
I don't know what you think is relevant in the next paragraph.
Healing Nonlethal Damage: You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage.
For example, I crit with a scythe doing non-lethal damage, for 147 points. The creature had 80 hp and this was the first very lucky hit. 147 - 80 = -67. The creature is stable and still alive. He would need to take 13 more non lethal damage to be killed.
He would need to take 13 more non lethal damage to reach 0 hit points. Then he would need to take X more non lethal damage to die (where x= his con score)
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Yeah, I don't know why so many people have such issues with non-lethal damage. I use it with my Intimidate Hellknight and people get it wrong all of the time. I don't know how many times I've had to explain that "they're passed out but they're not bleeding. They still have 20 hitpoints." I try to bring in the board/card game Red Dragon Inn as an example if they've heard of it. Nonlethal is alcohol, lethal is blood. If they cross, they pass out, but they're not dying.
Underused rule: Lighting (and cover associated with it). In PFS in particular, it doesn't help that many of the scenarios don't spell out what the light levels are for given rooms. I think that they should add a little section to rooms that just has a quick "box score" giving the light levels of areas. Especially if darkness/deeper darkness is going to be coming in to play. Since it doesn't "set" the light level, it merely shifts the current level.
Related rule is distance/light adjustments to stealth/perception checks. So many times, people just make a straight up opposing roll.
Think about it like when you do taxes.
You take the money you earn, then you take reductions, you add in some special income, and then you have your Income for the year.
Thats how much you get taxed on.
Once you have your income THEN you get credits to applied (and penalties if you are late).
Those credits don't change how much money you made that year, they just effect how much you pay.
Damage reduction doesn't effect how much damage you dealt, it just effects how much damage the bad guy actually takes.