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And how about drawing arrows? They are ammunition and maybe weapons? Normally drawing them is a free action and they don't provoke. But they can also explicitly be used as an improvised melee dagger.
No, they can't be used as an improvised melee dagger, they just merely do the same amount of damage as a dagger of the same size. */nitpick*
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KILL the GM, or help a zoo janitor impregnate his daughter.
But yeah, you can draw practically anything with a move action if you're not level 1.
But even if you couldn't, it's your WIFE DYING! Is there no room for theatrics or romance in PFS? What are morale and circumstance bonus for?
Why are you pressing these corner cases, Tarantula? What's the point?
The point is, as I said before, looking for consistency. You said a monk of the empty hand would provoke for drawing weapons, merely because he treats them as improvised weapons. I'm now looking for your answer to the next step, actual weapons which can be used as improvised weapons, such an arrow being used as an improvised melee weapon.
I think most people would agree that drawing an arrow does not provoke.
Does intending to use it as an improvised melee weapon suddenly make it provoke in your game? What if its a monk of the empty hand drawing it?
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I wouldn't allow scrolls in SLWS mainly because they're not rigid enough; all the objects that you can safely eject with the SLWS are rigid. Trying to eject a scroll would probably crumple or tear it.I wouldn't allow scrolls in a SLWS not because of that - but because of this line.
Emphasis mine. Scrolls are kept in tubes. Tubes are presumably a bit big to put in a SLWS.Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8-1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8-1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each additional spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.
To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols sometimes hide magic traps.
I would have to see the tube's stats, seriously.
Wrist sheathes are, explicitly, sized to be able to hold and dispense (for spring-loaded) a "bundle" of 5 arrows.
Arrows, typically, run about 1/4" thick, and about, for a properly spec'ed longbow, half the user's height, give-or-take a couple of inches. For an average human, that runs into a bundle of 5 arrows being a bit over an inch in diameter, and about 30" long.
Now, how tight can you roll a typical piece of US Letter sized paper? Assume a stiff tube attached to each end of it, like a curtain rod, about the size of a normal straw, but solid instead of hollow, for strength, basically a small dowel.
For a single spell scroll, it isn't going to exceed that 1 inch of the arrows. For 4 scrolls, like can fit into a standard scroll case, call it a bit over an inch for simple scrolls. Typically, for a scroll you ant available quickly in an emergency, you aren't going to bundle 4 scrolls together, but put in a single scroll.
So, can a wand fit into a wrist sheath/SLWS?
Can you pay extra for a scroll to have metal reinforcing rods, instead of the leather strips?
For thew potion school: There is a metal potion vial available for purchase that should bypass all worries about how fragile a glass potion vial is.
Can you put a filled potion sponge in a SLWS?
And, unless I missed it, is there a "use by" time for potion sponges, or, like weapon blanches, do they just remain "filled and ready" until used?
I wouldn't allow scrolls in SLWS mainly because they're not rigid enough; all the objects that you can safely eject with the SLWS are rigid. Trying to eject a scroll would probably crumple or tear it.I wouldn't allow scrolls in a SLWS not because of that - but because of this line.
Emphasis mine. Scrolls are kept in tubes. Tubes are presumably a bit big to put in a SLWS.Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8-1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8-1/2 inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each additional spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.
To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols sometimes hide magic traps.
I would have to see the tube's stats, seriously.
Wrist sheathes are, explicitly, sized to be able to hold and dispense (for spring-loaded) a "bundle" of 5 arrows.
Arrows, typically, run about 1/4" thick, and about, for a properly spec'ed longbow, half the user's height, give-or-take a couple of inches. For an average human, that runs into a bundle of 5 arrows being a bit over an inch in diameter, and about 30" long.
Now, how tight can you roll a typical piece of US Letter sized paper? Assume a stiff tube attached to each end of it, like a...
I didn't actually analyze the relative sizes. It's probably a good thing, because now I imagine everyone in Golarion who uses these walking around with Jensen arms.
It makes sense that anything in the rules that refers to "weapons" does not include improvised weapons. This is because anything can be an improvised weapon if it is small enough to try to hit someone with, and therefore the distinction is moot if "weapon" includes "improvised weapon." As a class of objects the term becomes meaningless - it then includes everything.
However, when a phrase like "weapon-like object" is used, I interpret this to mean anything that can conveniently be wielded in a fashion similar to a weapon. It would have to be reasonably hard and would be meant to be gipped in the hand (or possibly two hands). So this would apply to most kinds of tools, sticks, glass bottles (broken or not), and what have you. Because wands are rigid and meant to be held in a hand when used, I would definitely include them even if they weren't mentioned specifically. I would put rods in this category as well.
But it wouldn't apply to a segment of rope, a piece of cheese, or a handkerchief, because these things are flimsy and flexible or malleable. While you could try to hit someone with a piece of cheese, it is not intended to be wielded that way, and wouldn't do much damage (if any).
Scrolls I would generally have to put in the second category as they are flimsy and flexible. A scroll case would probably qualify as a "weapon-like" object, but you have yet to get the scroll out of it.
Even if putting a scroll in a spring-loaded sheath is allowed, the scroll is still rolled up and not ready to use.
The funny part though, is why not take some twine, or glue, or something like that, and wrap the scroll, word-side out, around your forearm? Once it is attached there, you could read it by just looking at your arm. I would rule that only one scroll per arm could be laid out this way.
A normal potion vial would not fit properly in a spring-loaded wrist sheath, but I could easily envision a custom flask made from a narrow brass tube (about as thick as an arrow) maybe 8"-10" long, with a stopper on the end. Assuming they were in a town with someone who could make such a thing they probably wouldn't cost more than 1 gp to buy. The action of using a normal potion includes removing the stopper, and the amount of fluid in a potion is pretty small so the volume wouldn't be a problem.
Wrapping scrolls around your forearms doesn't sound that much different from how Ben Roethlisberger and other NFL quarterbacks have sheets with plays on their forearms. You'd still need to unroll the scroll if it had more than a few lines on it. As a house rule maybe that could be a swift action instead of a move action. I don't know if there's anything in RAW for accessing scrolls quickly besides a glove of storing though, and those are quite expensive.
As far as improvised weapons go, I like well aged cheeses and suspect that some of them might make effective if unwieldy weapons. Some of them might do nonlethal damage like the sharp provolone "sap". I think a wheel of parmigiano reggiano could inflict lethal damage though. It also overcomes DR/dairy.
My issue with the "cannot draw wands and move" view is it seems to go against how information is normally presented in English.
You present the general statement followed by the exception that works with the general statement. Then only evercrefer to the general rule because the specific exception tells you it works with the general rules .
So we have the general draw/sheath rule. That tells you there is a draw weapon action and a sheat weapon action. We get an exception yelling us weapon like objects easily at hand can be obtained or put away with these actions.
We then get a new paragraph with a rule that only applies to drawing a weapon.
Its a new paragraph because it does not apply to sheathing a weapon and the game has already said draw weapon can be used with weaponlike objects.
Implying you cannot draw a wand while moving is in my opinion reading it wrong . Its a shame someones character died over it.