So we made characters last night to begin a Council of Thieves campaign...and needing a little healing with some utility I thought a Witch would be fun to try out as I've never played one before. So I figured I'd give everyone my current stats, minor build info etc and ask for advice on what if anything I should change up (we're not playing for a week or two yet so I have tweak time) as well as solicit advice on how to build it up in the future. We rolled stats...and I crushed it, heh. I had 2 17s...and put the second into charisma. I know it's not optimal but it made sense for my character background. I took the Infernal Bastard and Child of Infamy Traits from CoT and a greensting scorpion familiar for a +4 initiative but I might change that to the small dino variety with the same bonus for fun.
Tiefling Witch
Patron: Time
Str: 11
Dex: 15
Con: 15
Int: 19
Wis: 14
Cha: 15
Skills - Intimidate, knowledge history, knowledge planes, perception, perform act (was recommended and fits with the background), spellcraft. (Should I switch out intimidate for use magic device? Additionally I took the 1 hp rather than 1 skill at level one due to wanting to make it past first level).
Feat wise...I think I'm starting with Extra Hex and taking Cackle and Evil Eye. I don't want to take slumber...as I hear that can be a bit too much and being this is run by a first time GM I didn't want to wreck things and make them boring. I don't know where to go in the future on feats though...except for split hex at 10 most likely.
My main problems are this...I don't really know how witches work well in combat and I'm scared to death about having to be within 30 feet with a 12 AC. I'm guessing mage armor is a must because of this. Does anyone have some good advice on spell selections as well as future feats, skill advice, future build help etc? I'm guessing when I enter combat the first things I'm going to want to do is hit the biggest guy with an evil eye and start cackling and at that point layer on various spells etc? Is there a limit to the number of times I can hex...I didn't see one...or a limit to the number of hexes I can put on someone? Can I evil eye someone more than once for different effects(Ac, Saves, Etc...I know you can double down on one)?
More than anything I want the character to be fun for everyone including myself (one of the reasons I think I'm avoiding the slumber hex) and not necessarily trying to figure out how to make the baddest thing walking. My patron btw I took because it sounded interesting...plus the whole haste thing but I don't know enough about patrons to really get how that works atm.
All advice is welcome.
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I'd stick with Intimidate as CoT potentially has a lot of social interaction for an adventure path and it's nice to be able to pitch in with something.
Mage Armour isn't usually worth it for pure caster types: it doesn't boost your AC enough on its own to guarantee not being hit, and most of the time you'll not want to be the target in the first place. It's a must if there's a Monk on your team, but to cast on them, not on you. Could also be worth casting on your familiar if you're planning on risking the little guy in combat. Otherwise it's one to leave until you've got spell slots you don't know what to do with. Buy a haramaki and wear it under your clothes: that'll give you +1 armour bonus for no penalties (and in the long term a magic haramaki is going to be a much cheaper option than bracers of armour).
As for other spells, I'd suggest checking out the Witch spell beguiling gift: it's hilarious and potentially devastating (especially if you take the Cauldron hex and brew up damaging potions - such as inflict wounds - to hand over to the chump in question...).
If you're allowed to use material from the Advanced Race Guide I'd recommend checking out the Tiefling section - lots of nice alternate race traits and the like in there.
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Is there a limit to the number of times I can hex...I didn't see one...or a limit to the number of hexes I can put on someone? Can I evil eye someone more than once for different effects(Ac, Saves, Etc...I know you can double down on one)?
Yes you can!
FAQEvil Eye early and often.
There are some types of Hex that can only affect a creature once in 24 hours, like Fortune, Misfortune, Healing, Major Healing, and Sleep.
Some only let you have one attempt in 24 hours, regardless of the outcome (like Misfortune).
No limit to the number of Hexes that you can put on one enemy.
ProfPotts is right about Mage Armor. It's only really useful at first, maybe second level. After that it's mostly pointless as enemies will hit you anyway.
Beguiling Gift is awesome, especially once you've weakened their saves. There are so many things that you can give to an enemy and wreck them with this spell. How awesome would it be to give an enemy an Apple of Eternal Sleep?
Ill Omen is another fantastic level 1 Witch spell. No save, no attack roll. All you have to do is be close and cast it.
Grab a wand as soon as you can afford it.
What is your party makeup? Fighter, Rogue, Witch, Sorceror - Rogue and Sorceror both have UMD to help out with healing wands etc later on.
Are you going to have retraining rules? Pretty sure no.
Aside from backup healing what is your character concept? I'd like to be a buffer/debuffer as well as toss out the occasional fun offensive spell. I'm healer by default but healing isn't the concept. I gave them the option of going full on healing with an oracle of life or some minor healing and wanding with utility..they opted for the latter...hence my witch.
i.e. what is 'fun' for you? I'm not a powergamer, much more roleplay oriented so I'd like effects and spells that can add some roleplay elements to what they do in combat situations, however, I still need to be quite useful as I know most people find the fighter and rogue to drop off and we're not a terrible optimized group. The character is the infernal bastard child of a once prominent acting troupe. Currently wandering around in some fun if slightly garish courtier clothing complete with minor jewelry and a parasol.
"Wear armor and use a shield. Hexes are not affected by arcane spell failure.
Cheese armor: armored kilt/haramaki are +1 AC with 0% ASF.
Or compromise and just use a buckler (5% ASF isn't terrible) and it stacks with your mage armor. "
Never heard of Haramaki or the Armored kilt...not sure what book those are from? Mage armor doesn't stack with the Haramaki and armored kilt correct...so that would just be for protection during the times I don't have the spell going? I didn't try not to overly cheese and the kilt wouldn't make sense...so I might just go with buckler. Not sure what a Haramaki is heh.
ill omen is my first level witch spell of choice. Nice for trying to make sure people fail Hex saves. Split Hex is a great feat once you hit level 10.
Ill omen does look nice...I'll definitely add that to my spell list, thank you for that.
The Haramaki definitely works, so would the buckler. The Harmaki would potentially free up a spell slot from Mage Armor...but I obviously wouldn't get the benefit that surpasses it until later.
Looking like the witch is just a single target wrecker...I take down their defenses and abilities and let the party sweep up with the damage against the weakened foe. That'll work well I think with the occasional rare offensive spell for emergency damage situations.
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One fun haramaki trick later on could be to get a living steel version for an extra +500gp. Chances are it still won't actually save you from getting hit, but every now and then (well, 5% of the time...) some guy who managed to slip past the frontline fighters to have a swing at you ends up with a broken sword... Works even better against guys you've hit with a (cackle-maintained) misfortune hex. Hardly a sure-fire defense, but funny when it works.
Trickery patron will net mirror image and that spell will save your skin more times than anything else will!
If you don't take it you need to focus on...
Not being in melee, ever.
Your crappy Fortitude save.
Learn to love your spell list - it's very good. Take spectral hand and deliver all those nasty touch spells from distance. I'll omen is golden.
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Trickery patron will net mirror image and that spell will save your skin more times than anything else will!
If you don't take it you need to focus on...
Not being in melee, ever.
Your crappy Fortitude save.Learn to love your spell list - it's very good. Take spectral hand and deliver all those nasty touch spells from distance. I'll omen is golden.
I definitely agree.
Mirror Image is a very important defensive spell for arcane casters. I think that getting it on your spell list is worth ignoring the other Patrons entirely.Armor Class is a gamble with primary melee characters and a fool's errand for casters. Past 2nd level, Mirror Image is what saves you in melee.
That, or get your UMD score as high as possible so that you can activate scrolls of Mirror Image (DC 23) instead.
So we made characters last night to begin a Council of Thieves campaign...and needing a little healing with some utility I thought a Witch would be fun to try out as I've never played one before. So I figured I'd give everyone my current stats, minor build info etc and ask for advice on what if anything I should change up (we're not playing for a week or two yet so I have tweak time) as well as solicit advice on how to build it up in the future. We rolled stats...and I crushed it, heh. I had 2 17s...and put the second into charisma. I know it's not optimal but it made sense for my character background. I took the Infernal Bastard and Child of Infamy Traits from CoT and a greensting scorpion familiar for a +4 initiative but I might change that to the small dino variety with the same bonus for fun.
Tiefling Witch
Patron: TimeStr: 11
Dex: 15
Con: 15
Int: 19
Wis: 14
Cha: 15Skills - Intimidate, knowledge history, knowledge planes, perception, perform act (was recommended and fits with the background), spellcraft. (Should I switch out intimidate for use magic device? Additionally I took the 1 hp rather than 1 skill at level one due to wanting to make it past first level).
Feat wise...I think I'm starting with Extra Hex and taking Cackle and Evil Eye. I don't want to take slumber...as I hear that can be a bit too much and being this is run by a first time GM I didn't want to wreck things and make them boring. I don't know where to go in the future on feats though...except for split hex at 10 most likely.
My main problems are this...I don't really know how witches work well in combat and I'm scared to death about having to be within 30 feet with a 12 AC. I'm guessing mage armor is a must because of this. Does anyone have some good advice on spell selections as well as future feats, skill advice, future build help etc? I'm guessing when I enter combat the first things I'm going to want to do is hit the biggest guy with an evil eye and start cackling and at that point layer on various...
My apologies to anyone who has already posted any of these suggestions, but time is tight today and I can't go through all the responses.
1) Ability scores: You recognize Cha isn't optimal but it fits your concept. All I can say is that based on that, your stat placement seems spot on.
2) Skills: UMD is great, but intimidate can be useful, with a good Cha it makes sense to have at least 1 social skill. If you were going to switch out any skill to make room for UMD, I would consider switching out Knowledge: History (or take a single rank at level 1, then start taking UMD instead)
3) Feats: Yep - extra hex is an excellent choice
4) Hexes: You might get more mileage out of misfortune than evil eye at low levels. Evil eye is a great choice, but I would take it at 2nd level (or even 4th). Most CR appropriate creatures are going to fail their save at low levels and misfortune has a more dramatic effect than evil eye at low level.
5)Mechanics: I'm assuming the mechanics were cleared up in previous posts. If not, I'll check back tomorrow and provide mechanic info.
6) Tactics: You are correct, witches are squishy, and the 30 ft range of hexes should make you nervous. Your best bet is to ensure there is always a PC between you and the bad guy. If enemies have to work through a PC to get to you, it makes it far more difficult for them. At higher levels, you have some decent magic defense options. Either way, make yourself a hard target through positioning relative to other PC's, and pick up a fly/levitate option as soon as available. Tanglefoot bags and a net are always a good idea right from level 1 to restrict movement of enemies.
7) Spells: At level 1, you wouldn't think it, but enlarge person is a good spell for defense (bigger fighter means fighter with reach, means fighter hard to get around to get to witch). Mage armor is a no-brainer. Obscuring mist is a good defensive option too. Since you are a debuffer extraordinaire, Ray of Enfeeblement is fun for witches and makes enemies less scary too.
Hope that helps
P.S.: At 7th level take Improved Familiar - get a mephit. It can throw those tanglefoot bags for you! (as well as some other spell like abilities that could be helpful - like wind wall!)
For the Improved Familiar at 7th level, you may also consider a Lyrakien for wand wielding purposes. A good choice for a wand is Ill Omen: those rerolls!
If you don't want/can't do that, there's other nice options in the Voidworm and the Silvanshee.
Hex wise, I'd take Evil Eye first, if not for a bit more versatility: in any case, you should have both it and Misfortune at level 2.
For spells, I found that Ear Piercing Scream is nicer than I thought.