Gunslinger TWF + Rapid Shot + Haste + Deadly Shot = ??????

[DeadJesterKelsier]

I need someone to help clarify the rules and explain how these abilities/feats go together.

We are looking at:
Gunslinger (pistolero) 5, Human
BAB: 5 DEX: +3
Feat: Deadly Aim
Feat: Rapid Shot
Feat: Two Weapon Fighting
Weapons: MWK Pepperbox & Double Barrel Pistol

So for attack modifiers we have:
+5 BAB
+3 DEX
-2 Deadly Aim
-2 Rapid Shot
-4 TWF
+1 MWK Mainhand
+1 (+0 offhand) Total

A gunslinger gets one attack at 5th level, then an extra attack from rapid shot, an extra attack from haste and an extra attack from TWF, for a total of 4 attacks: +1/+1/+1 +0.

Damage is more straightforward
1d8 Both guns
+3 From Gun Training
+4 From Deadly Aim
TOTAL 1d8+7

4 attacks for a potential total of 4d8+28 at a x4 crit at 5th level?!
Granted doing this kills your attack, but I'll be shooting touch AC to help compensate.

Up Close and Deadly:

At 1st level, when the pistolero hits a target with a one-handed firearm that is not making a scatter shot, she can spend 1 grit point to deal 1d6 points of extra damage on a hit. If she misses with the attack, she grazes the target, dealing half the extra damage anyway. This is precision damage and is not multiplied if the attack is a critical hit. This precision damage increases to 2d6 at 5th level, to 3d6 at 10th level, to 4d6 at 15th level, and to 5d6 at 20th level. This precision damage stacks with sneak attack and other forms of precision damage.

It is worse if I burn my 4 grit Up Close and Deadly, it becomes 4d8+8d6+28 dmg at 5th level....

Now this gets real confusing when you consider this same situation in 2 levels...
BAB goes to +7/+2 and you gain Dead Shot.

Attacks +3/+3/+3/-2 +2

Dead Shot:

At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attack rolls in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. If any of the attack rolls hit the target, the gunslinger’s single attack is considered to have hit. For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm. For instance, if a 7th-level gunslinger firing a musket hits with both attacks, she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed. If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0). The gunslinger only misfires on a dead shot if all the attack rolls are misfires. She cannot perform this deed with a blunderbuss or other scatter weapon when attacking creatures in a cone. The gunslinger must spend 1 grit point to perform this deed.

Can I pool all of these attacks (including the offhand one) into one super shot with the Dead Shot deed and do 5d8+7 damage in a single shot?

Can I then use Up Close and Deadly on the dead shot? Can I only use it only once or on each of the attacks that went into it?

Am I doing the math right?

Do all of these abilities and feats stack?

This is very confusing to me and I would like someone to make more sense of these rules together. Maybe an official ruling?

Thank you

[Blackpowder Witch]

Keep in mind that Pepperboxes need a freehand in order to rotate the barrels after each shot.

[sageann]

Pepperbox: This pistol has six barrels instead of one. The entire barrel housing can be quickly rotated by hand between shots (a free action requiring one free hand), allowing all six bullets to be fired before the weapon must be reloaded. Each barrel of a pepperbox uses either a bullet and a single dose of black powder or a single alchemical cartridge as ammunition.

can't use twf you need a hand free to use the pepperbox

[Torbyne]

Dead Shot seems pretty clear about only using one weapon and only using the attacks you gain from BAB, not any extra from haste or using multiple weapons. Think of it as a specific variant of Vital Strike. Fairly weak ability unless you have to move in the round and wouldnt get multiple attacks in any other way or are using a two handed weapon with a long reloading time and have some nice base damage dice to play with. I suppose its also a cost effective way of getting over a high DR but i would rather just grab Clustered Shots and go for the full attack.

[Akerlof]

You're attacking at +1/+1/+1/+0, you don't have Precise Shot. Heck, you don't even have Point Blank shot. <Edit: How are you getting Rapid Shot without Point Blank Shot? The attack sequence should be at an extra +1 to attack and damage.>

The median touch AC for a CR5 enemy is 12. That means you're hitting on an 11 or 12, so on average two of those attacks will hit in the best of circumstances, and you have about a 1/20 chance of landing all four attacks.

math:

Roughly 50% chance to hit * 4 attacks = roughly 2 attacks hit a round.
All 4 attacks hit: (10/20)*(10/20)*(10/20)*(9/20)=(9000/160000)=0.06

Compare that to a level 5 Warrior with 18 Str, a Mwk Greatsword, and the feats Power Attack, Weapon Focus and Furious Focus.

+5 BAB
+4 Str
+1 Haste
+1 Weapon Focus
+1 Mwk Weapon
-2 PA (on the second attack.)
------------------------
+12/+10 for 2d6+12

The median CR5 enemy has a normal AC of 18, so he's hitting on a 6-8 in the worst of cases. Meaning, he's generally hitting at least once a round.

So, 2d8+14 verses 2d6+12 is slightly in the Gunslinger's favor. Congratulations, you're averaging 4 more damage than an NPC!

However, the real question is: Are you using the ranged combat rules properly? A decently competent party can generally avoid standing in front of the Gunslinger. At least, when there are other options. In reality, than generally translates to not having to deal with a +4 to AC about half the time. Sometimes geometry simply doesn't let you get out of the Gunslinger's way.

Far more common, though, is melee. Remember that any time an enemy is adjacent to an ally you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll unless you have Precise Shot. This translates to an effective -4 to your attack roll just about any time you're not acting first in the first round of combat. Even if you don't have those pesky meleers in your party, the enemy tends to prefer to, actually, get up there and attack your friends.

This drops the gunslinger down from about a 50% chance of hitting to a 30% chance pretty consistently, and regularly falling to a 10% chance. Using the appropriate ranged combat rules, the Gunslinger is now looking at an average of 1 hit for 1d8+7 compared to the NPC's 2d6+12. Alternatively, if there's another meleer that Warrior NPC is going to be hitting on a 4-6: He has synergy with the rest of the party instead of having to work around them.

Rapid Shot plus Dual Wield is very powerful for Gunslingers... at higher levels. Touch AC does not scale nearly as quickly as normal AC and they're a full BAB class so they can afford to take big penalties. But at low levels they need to focus on their attack bonuses just as much as any other class.

But hey, if you (or your player) wants to blow their entire life savings on a pair of fancy guns, more power to you. But if you're worried about the damage output, play by the rules and it will be very reasonable for at least the next 4 levels until Precise Shot is available.

Learn, live, love and enforce the "Cover" and "Shooting or Throwing into Melee" rules when you play or GM for a ranged combatant.

[insaneogeddon]

Dead shot does not include Rapid Shot, Two Weapon Fighting or Hasteits base attacks only.

Further more only BASE damage is multiplied NOT flaming enhancements or up close and deadly or deadly aim or dex or weapon enhancements or point blank.

Dead shot is a full round action so cannot use other attacks or do much apart from 5ft step. Its basically an inbuilt vital strike mechanic to just add insult to injury vs melee and let gunslingers cut through DR like butter if the need arises.

Search on vital strike if need clarification.

[Kazaan]

It's also a good way to use budget expensive ammo; if you only have a couple of adamantine bullets, you want to do the most damage you can with each one to make it worth it. That's the purpose of Dead Shot; it isn't a damage-dealing deed, it's an ammo conservation deed.