Neutral Clerics changing alignment... how does it affect their channeling?


Rules Questions


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At level 1, a Neutral cleric of a Neutral Deity can choose to channel either positive or negative energy, and the choice cannot be changed.

What happens if the cleric changes alignment? Channeling energy is not defined as a good or evil act (and this is supported by healing and inflict spells not having either the good or evil descriptor).

Assuming a cleric continues to worship the same Neutral Deity, if a cleric chooses to channel negative energy, then becomes good, what happens?

Core Rulebook, pg 40 wrote:
A neutral cleric of a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).

Do they loose access to the class feature, since they no longer meet the requirements, or do they continue to channel negative energy?

If they change channeled type (to positive), this could create a slippery slope where alignment flops back and forth depending on what they expect to face (I'm neutral today, I'm good today), etc.


The intent is for it to stay permanent, so if you alignment changes, and your deity no longer supports you then you lose your class features.

If you are asking can you just change it everyday then the answer is no.


I would just chance the channeling to fit the new alignment.


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wraithstrike wrote:

The intent is for it to stay permanent, so if you alignment changes, and your deity no longer supports you then you lose your class features.

If you are asking can you just change it everyday then the answer is no.

i dont think there are a lot of folks that play with Daily alignment change:) and if they do then they have other problems than this.

But pehaps some form of atonement would be fitting. To embrace your new place among the followers of your god?


"The intent is for it to stay permanent" - Wraithstrike

The expectation was that the cleric's alignment would not change. The possibility was not considered when the rules were created.

It is up to GM discretion. Personally I would just let the cleric channel positive. Requiring an Atonement spell also seems to be a reasonable option.


Axl wrote:

"The intent is for it to stay permanent" - Wraithstrike

The expectation was that the cleric's alignment would not change. The possibility was not considered when the rules were created.

It is up to GM discretion. Personally I would just let the cleric channel positive. Requiring an Atonement spell also seems to be a reasonable option.

Actually the rules say it can not be changed.

Quote:
A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed.

edit:

and for those with no deity

Quote:
A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player's choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy (see Channel Energy).


The rules don't say it changes with alignment. It says the decision can not be reversed.

Now if someone were to actually change deities I would allow them to choose again, but that would be an extensive process. They would not wake up and have a new deity everyday.


Okay, that's a good point.


If you use the restraining rules i think it is 5 days to retrain a class feature.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
wraithstrike wrote:

The intent is for it to stay permanent, so if you alignment changes, and your deity no longer supports you then you lose your class features.

If you are asking can you just change it everyday then the answer is no.

No, I'm not asking about every day alignment change. Just saying that is a potential issue of it changes with alignment.

I assumed the initial choice is permanent (as the rule says), but my opinion is not the only viable one. RAW does support.

As far as alignment change... if Deity is Lawful-Neutral, for example, their worshipers can be LG, LN, LE, or TN. Cleric starts out LN, chooses Negative channeling, then later becomes LG.

Alignment is still in zone allowed by deity, so cleric still retains divine power granted by this same deity.

The question is... what happens to their Channel Energy class feature? Does it continue to work as originally chosen: or would it no longer function (like having a feat that you no longer qualify for, since you are no longer Neutral worshiping a Neutral deity)? [this is assuming the character is good and wants to keep channel negative, not retraining it, for Variant Channeling ability]


reyyvin wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

The intent is for it to stay permanent, so if you alignment changes, and your deity no longer supports you then you lose your class features.

If you are asking can you just change it everyday then the answer is no.

No, I'm not asking about every day alignment change. Just saying that is a potential issue of it changes with alignment.

I assumed the initial choice is permanent (as the rule says), but my opinion is not the only viable one. RAW does support.

As far as alignment change... if Deity is Lawful-Neutral, for example, their worshipers can be LG, LN, LE, or TN. Cleric starts out LN, chooses Negative channeling, then later becomes LG.

Alignment is still in zone allowed by deity, so cleric still retains divine power granted by this same deity.

The question is... what happens to their Channel Energy class feature? Does it continue to work as originally chosen: or would it no longer function (like having a feat that you no longer qualify for, since you are no longer Neutral worshiping a Neutral deity)? [this is assuming the character is good and wants to keep channel negative, not retraining it, for Variant Channeling ability]

You only lose your abilities if you fall out of favor with your deity, so if you have a neutral deity, and you go from evil to good you are still able to channel the same as before. There is no rule for partially losing divine based abilities. Either you have all of them or you have none of them. Anything else is a houserule, and not an actual rule. That is not a bad thing since the rules dont cover everything. I am just telling you how the rules work since we are in the rules section.

Quote:

Ex-Clerics

A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by her god loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and proficiency with simple weapons. She cannot thereafter gain levels as a cleric of that god until she atones for her deeds (see the atonement spell description).

Now if this were the advice area I would just say cut off channeling since the intent of the game is not for you to switch back and forth as you want. You are supposed to stick with one, and just deal with the consequences otherwise.


Wouldn't the Atonement spell cover this?

Atonement wrote:
A paladin, or other class, who has lost her class features due to violating the alignment restrictions of her class may have her class features restored by this spell.

The PC lost a class feature due to an alignment violation, after all.


If a LN cleric channeling negative energy became good aligned...i would say they cannot channel negative energy anymore. Granted im basing this off of memory of the "good aligned clerics cannot cast opposite aligned spells etc etc". I maybe missing some wording or whatnot that would make me totally wrong but so far it seems u wouldnt "lose" ur cleric abilities, u just wouldnt be able to cast or channel certain spells because of ur alignment.


Well, a neutral cleric has a choice of Negative or Positive. This choice cannot be changed. However, a Good cleric has no choice. They must channel positive energy. If you become a Good cleric, you channel positive energy, because a Good cleric can't channel anything else.

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