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I seem to remember (please correct me if I am mistaken) that two years ago when Dawn of the Scarlet Sun was released, you had to use the pre-gens provided on Free RPG Day (Saturday). However, like a month later when the module was released to the general public on PDF it was sanctioned for PFS and you could use your own character (of appropriate level). Am I right guys?
I don't recall any such rule. I in fact played my own character.
The pregens present in the module were legal, for that module only though, even though they were 5th level.
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I seem to remember (please correct me if I am mistaken) that two years ago when Dawn of the Scarlet Sun was released, you had to use the pre-gens provided on Free RPG Day (Saturday). However, like a month later when the module was released to the general public on PDF it was sanctioned for PFS and you could use your own character (of appropriate level). Am I right guys?I don't recall any such rule. I in fact played my own character.
The pregens present in the module were legal, for that module only though, even though they were 5th level.
OK, that pretty much puts my (faulty) impression to bed. Thanks guys!
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I just got a copy of this today.
Am I missing something or is the swashbuckler almost totally useless in this scenario? Without critting she does no damage against the constructs. Her saves suck. I just don't see what she brings to the table.
I think their player is going to end up very dissapointed.
Although I basically anticipate a TPK against the pyramid anyway :-(. It feels like it was intended more as a trap than a monster. Unless I'm missing something it just rolls back and forth and destroys the party.
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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I am with a group running this as a Slot Zero right now where I played the Swashbuckler and you are right pauljathome, the Swashbuckler is almost totally useless. Her saves do suck unless you use the Charmed Life ability.
I would not run this with a table of less than 6. We had a group of experienced players using each of the pregens. If running with less than a 6 player party with just the pregens and if one person dies, it could turn into a TPK.
I have questions as well on if the Rolling Pyramid was intended as a trap or if it would be going back and forth until destroyed.
I will have to add more once the surviving team finishes or is finished.
Edit: The rest of the party survived!!
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I just got a copy of this today.
Am I missing something or is the swashbuckler almost totally useless in this scenario? Without critting she does no damage against the constructs. Her saves suck. I just don't see what she brings to the table.
Hmmm? Constructs still take precision damage. Its oozes elementals and incorporeals that are immune. (unless there's something funky about the constructs)
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I would not run this with a table of less than 6. !
I had thought that we were being strongly encouraged (or perhaps required) to run groups of 4 characters using only the pregens at Free Game Day.
Could somebody in the know PLEASE tell us explicitly what we're supposed to allow Saturday.
1) only pregens?
2) how many players and/or characters?
3) what changes are we allowed to make? For example, I want to have the pyramid just make one trample and then stand there and slam. Is that softballing acceptable?
All this may be in the chronicle sheet, of course.
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I had thought that we were being strongly encouraged (or perhaps required) to run groups of 4 characters using only the pregens at Free Game Day.
I thought this too, but my local Venture Captain assured me that you can run it with the normal number of players (6 or even 7), with the players either "doubling up" on the new pregens and renaming them or including some of the standard pregens (in this case level 4 versions of the other iconics) to fill the table.
I'm honestly not totally sure he's correct, but until I'm told otherwise by someone higher up I'll go with that.
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I would not run this with a table of less than 6. !
I had thought that we were being strongly encouraged (or perhaps required) to run groups of 4 characters using only the pregens at Free Game Day.
Could somebody in the know PLEASE tell us explicitly what we're supposed to allow Saturday.
1) only pregens?
2) how many players and/or characters?
3) what changes are we allowed to make? For example, I want to have the pyramid just make one trample and then stand there and slam. Is that softballing acceptable?All this may be in the chronicle sheet, of course.
The only persons who are 'in the know' are John Compton & Mike Brock. John is the one crafting the Chronicle. I am sure he's aware of the eligibility questions and hopefully we'll have an answer today when he releases the Chronicle.
As far as 3) goes, I would trust you to make that decision. I ran all the tough encounters as mock combats using the pre-gens and they don't hold up well for some of them. The pyramid encounter killed two of them. However, a simple tanglefoot bag would turn the tide of the battle. The pre-gens aren't equipped with any, but if six 4th level PFS characters come to the table then you may want to take off the kid gloves.
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I'm wondering about the wording for area 15, the "Chamber of the Four Elements" on page 9. It says on the bottom of the page:
but opening the panel likely requires touching the obelisk, which summons another fire elemental to attack.
The room description clearly states that only one of each elemental type can be summoned, so I'm wondering if opening the secret panel will really call another critter. I'm inclined to say no, as the previous text calls it out specifically, but I wanted to check here.
Anyway looking forward to GMing it on Saturday.
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I'm wondering about the wording for area 15, the "Chamber of the Four Elements" on page 9. It says on the bottom of the page:
Spoiler:
but opening the panel likely requires touching the obelisk, which summons another fire elemental to attack.The room description clearly states that only one of each elemental type can be summoned, so I'm wondering if opening the secret panel will really call another critter. I'm inclined to say no, as the previous text calls it out specifically, but I wanted to check here.
Anyway looking forward to GMing it on Saturday.
so, if they don't find or attempt to open the secret compartment until after they've fought a fire elemental, they'll likely have to fight another one.
of course, i don't see any reason why the open/close cantrip wouldn't open the secret compartment.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Sebastian:
Only one elemental of a given type can
be summoned into the room at a time, but all four types of
elementals can be summoned if all four obelisks are touched.
The "at a time" means if they kill one fire elemental, then they try opening the panel, they'd summon another one. So unless they can open it without touching it (open/close?) or open it while a fire elemental is already summoned at the time, it'll summon another.
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The room allows only one of each type at a time. Touch it again after killing the first elemental and another shows up.
One typo I noticed : the bloodrager's raging strength is wrong (should be only 18). All tthederived numbers (to hit, damage, CMB, CMD) seem right
Edit: double ninja's. Hate when that happens
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I don't understand why the non-Goblin Free RPG Day offerings are so... lethal.
Aren't these designed to try and convert or attract new players? I think the message a new player will take from this adventure is, "I better only make PCs that can do 3d6 damage a round and have lots of hit points, or I will die."
After careful consideration, I've decided to not run this adventure (not even with the regular level 4 pregens), and will run the quest "Ambush Under Absalom" for Free RPG Day instead, to try and attract new players and teach them the rules without discouraging them. Sorry, Paizo, I know you wanted to highlight the new classes, but I don't think it's gonna work.
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- If someone's playing the investigator pregen, make sure they are familiar with the chosen spells, especially Stone Fist. That single spell can turn the investigator from a useless character against the rolling pyramind to the MVP if no one else is hurting it.
Going back to this point...unfortunately, it doesn't work. It ignores hardness LESS than 8...making Stone Fist all but useless in this module except against the skeletons, one of the easiest fights.
Man, this thing is rough.
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I don't understand why the non-Goblin Free RPG Day offerings are so... lethal.
Aren't these designed to try and convert or attract new players? I think the message a new player will take from this adventure is, "I better only make PCs that can do 3d6 damage a round and have lots of hit points, or I will die."
Yeah. I know if you do dawn of the scarlet sun with the pregens, you're gonna die.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Which is why I plan on reducing the hardness of all of the stone critters from 8 to 7 in this mod.
Please note that this thread is in the Pathfinder Society forums.
The kind of adjustment you mention is appropriate for a home game, but is explicitly forbidden for PFS play.
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I don't understand why the non-Goblin Free RPG Day offerings are so... lethal.
Aren't these designed to try and convert or attract new players? I think the message a new player will take from this adventure is, "I better only make PCs that can do 3d6 damage a round and have lots of hit points, or I will die."
After careful consideration, I've decided to not run this adventure (not even with the regular level 4 pregens), and will run the quest "Ambush Under Absalom" for Free RPG Day instead, to try and attract new players and teach them the rules without discouraging them. Sorry, Paizo, I know you wanted to highlight the new classes, but I don't think it's gonna work.
This. I played a 4-player session 0 using a combination of pregens and PFS characters and walked away thinking, "do the people who write these things actually PLAY RPGs?"
To be fair, I think that about some of the regular PFS scenarios, but this is supposed to sell Pathfinder, and Society play, to new players? Yeah...about that...
Any fun that's going to be had, especially by new players, is going to depend on the GM making the game fun. Folks sure aren't going to have it with the mod itself.
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Wendy-Ann, thank you for creating the stat blocks. A minor nit-pick and a reminder to everybody, the Archer Skeletons in room 13 have the Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot feats.
Below I'm listing some special abilities from The Architect in room 9 that are not listed in the stat block and you need Bestiary 4 to get them. I pulled them off of Archives of Nethys so I cannot tell you the information below is 100% correct.
Burst of Vengeance (Su): Despite its slow, lumbering nature, a mummified creature is capable of lurching forward to attack with a short but surprising explosion of speed. Twice per day as a swift action, a mummified creature may act as if affected by a haste spell for 1 round.
Dust Stroke (Su): A creature killed by a mummified creature’s natural attack or slam attack is disintegrated into a cloud of dust and ash, completely destroying the victim’s body (as disintegrate).
Frightful Presence (Ex) This special quality makes a creature’s very presence unsettling to foes. Activating this ability is a free action that is usually part of an attack or charge. Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken. The range is usually 30 feet, and the duration is usually 5d6 rounds. This ability affects only opponents with fewer Hit Dice than the creature has. An opponent can resist the effects with a successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the frightful creature’s racial HD + the frightful creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failed save, the opponent is shaken, or panicked if it has 4 Hit Dice or fewer. Frightful presence is a mind-affecting fear effect.
My 2 cents for the rolling pyramid, I'll run the trample once but have it over shoot its move action. Then I'll ask the party if they want to stay and fight or make a break down the hall. I have a short time slot to run this game and spending those precious minutes beating up a bag of hit points is not my idea of fun.
Also, clarification on the FZ Hieracosphinx. It is supposed to have a slam, but it is not listed. Since it doesn't have a Slam, then I'm assuming SA: Quick Strikes doesn't come into play. The last room is hard enough as is but I'm just interested for academic sake.
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john said that he was hoping to get them posted yesterday, it was not a hard date. i think there might a few things going on over at the paizo offices at the moment, what with it being three weeks until the kickoff of paizocon and then gencon a month later. i'm sure they'll be posted as soon as they possibly can.
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Well he was on the podcast for two hours last night from 530-730pm pst
He also said he was going to work on it after the podcast.
He probably has the product finished, it now goes to the digital team and the website team to upload and change the product webpage. Since they weren't there last night, I'm sure it will be posted sometime today.
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We did a Slot Zero of this last night. This is another Master of the Fallen Fortress player killer. We played with a group of experienced players and a GM that tends to err on the side of soft-balling. We used the supplied Pregens. We had one survivor, and that only because he ran away from the BBEG. The PFS Guide expressly states that most players whose character dies in its first adventure don't return. So why does Paizo insist on making their intro Free RPG mods so deadly? This mod isn't that bad if you look at it from the POV of a basic dungeon crawl, but when you look at from the POV of an intro mod, it sucks. It is far too deadly for newbs and uses pregens that are far too complicated.
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I don't know that it is necessarily an "intro" module. While a free module is a great way to advertise the game, I don't see anything that's indicating that Risen from the Sands (or Dawn of the Scarlet Sun or We Be Goblins Too!) is specifically meant to be an introductory module for Pathfinder (or Pathfinder Society). Master of the Fallen Fortress certainly is, but the couple times I've run it or seen it run, it was very challenging without being overly deadly. Risen From the Sands can certainly be deadly and challenging, but certainly not a guaranteed kill for anyone entering it. That goes doubly for PFS characters (who are built using a higher point buy than the module is written for, are more often than not at least somewhat optimized, and will probably be going in as a group of six instead of four, likely at the higher end of the APL spectrum). Yes, there are some tough encounters, and the brutality can start right off the bat for players who don't play smart, but I really don't think it's as bad as people are making it out to be in and of itself.
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You can certainly read that into the intent of the Free RPG Day program itself, but that doesn't mean that the actual module was specifically written as an entry-level introduction to Pathfinder. Yes, a lot of publishers do put out quick-start rules and introductory scenarios meant to be a entry-level experience. Some do not. Paizo sometimes has, and sometimes has not. This year, they did not.
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Sorry, but this is like saying that it would be okay for the Pathfinder Starter boxed set to be deadly as long as the designers didn't actually design that Starter set to be for newbs. Free RPG Day is supposed to be for gaining new customers, not satisfying the current customer base. If it does both, that's fine. But it fails if it does the latter and not the former.
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I would agree with Matt I don't believe there is any requirement that all the modules put out for Free RPG Day have to be tailored for beginners. It doesn't even say that is the focus on the Free RPG website.
I like that this was was designed to be challenging since it seems that at times some things from Paizo are a little bit on the easy side.
(This coming from someone who has yet to have a player death although one came close twice.)
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An intro module for new rpg players does not necessarily have to be a module for entry-level beginning players.
At higher levels we can showcase some of the class abilities that highlight a specific class that would otherwise be unavailable.
I dont recommend going higher than 5th level for a free RPG module. But for a beginning player chucking a fireball on your very 1st try at a new RPG is pretty sweet. This stuff adds to the excitement.
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As someone who has run Free RPG Day scenarios for a few years now, I can say that these Mods definitely are intros to Pathfinder and to Pathfinder Society play for quite a few new players. A bad gaming experience can certainly turn off these new players to PFS.
Having a brand new player play Dawn of the Scarlet Sun with Harsk or this scenario with Jirelle could definitely result in a negative experience. Very difficult intro scenarios tell new players that PFS requires min-maxing and rewards murder hobos.
Intro, yes. Entry-level intro, not necessarily. As for pregens, for PFS sanctioning, there's a work around for that, so it's not too much of a real issue. But very difficult scenarios might also tell players that they need to use their wits and intelligence with scenarios and modules, and that "murderhoboing" is indeed not always the best route to take.
On a side note, no one should ever play Harsk in any scenario ever.
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If only there was a way to run great intro mods and scenarios alongside content made to draw experienced and knowledgeable players to an event that is often characterized as being for newer players
oh wait there is
I am not exactly sure what you are referring to here. If you are suggesting we run something like The Confirmation as well as Risen From the Sands during free RPG day, our FLGS has expressly stated that he only wants us to run the official Free RPG Day adventure on Free RPG Day. I suspect he may not be alone in that.
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That's an issue on the store owner's end, then. While the goal of Free RPG Day may be to bring new players to a game, it doesn't necessarily have to be (nor should it necessarily have to be) to play only the specific offerings from publishers for that event. The concept of Free RPG Day and its goal is independent of the concept of the free products offered from the publishers. They certainly interact, but they are not the same thing. Draw players in with free swag, interest new players with something they will enjoy and have fun with, whether or not that is the actual offering on that year's Free RPG Day. Certainly offer the event itself, but if you or the store owner don't want anything but that run, then you're limiting yourselves from the get-go. If I had more GM's available in my area, I'd certainly offer tables of the Confirmation or First Steps 1 to get players interested in PFS instead of relying on a module that is designed for 3rd level characters (and has been known as such for quite a long time).
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If he only wants to run the Free RPG Module even though it has been known for a good while that is for 3rd level characters, and therefor obviously not going to be something that's an entry-level sort of experience, then that's certainly his prerogative. If he wants to preclude running events that are specifically designed as entry level modules like Master of the Fallen Fortress or PFS scenarios like First Steps, Part 1 or The Confirmation, then that is also his prerogative. However, he then does not have the right to complain that the module designed for higher than starting level PCs is not suitable as an entry level event, well, there's no leg to stand on there. He could have made the choice to have multiple options available to players of different levels and actually use the event as an opportunity to draw in entry level players with suitable events, but chose to only run the new shiny thing. Again, it's a perfectly valid decision to make, but the responsibility for making that decision rests on his shoulders (or whoever made the decision), not on Paizo's. Paizo made no claims that the module was an entry-level event (as they have previously with Master of the Fallen Fortress and other products), nor is there any indication that every Free RPG Day product offered by a publisher is or should be an entry-level product. There is also absolutely nothing stating that only the current Free RPG can or should be offered that day. If that was the perception, then the perception was flawed. There are a ton of options available for a store to use to give brand new players a great starting point for playing Pathfinder. And those new players can still pick up a free copy of Risen From the Sands to see how things are at higher levels.
That being said, I really don't think that Risen From the Sands is going to be a death sentence to everyone who walks into it, even using pregens, and I think even brand new players can have a lot of fun with it. Playing smart and using your head is a big part of Pathfinder and RPG's in general, and, yes, death can be part of the game. Not every adventure can be successful, and there are often much more interested stories that come of failures, and even deaths, than come out of racking up a "high score."
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If he only wants to run the Free RPG Module even though it has been known for a good while that is for 3rd level characters, and therefor obviously not going to be something that's an entry-level sort of experience, then that's certainly his prerogative.
I don't equate level 3 with no fit for new players. The metaphor I'll use is Star Wars movies. There was a reason Lucas started at Episode 4...that's where he thought he could give the best experience and story. I think the same can be said in Pathfinder. Characters don't really come into their own until at least level 3, and I'd argue you can give a new person a better experience playing level 3 characters than level 1 characters. You get better variety of feats, spells, and skills...you have enough HP to survive a random hit, and each character starts to evolve a little bit in what they can accomplish.
The issue here isn't that it's a 3rd level adventure. I applaud introducing people to this level. It shows them how cool characters can be after a short time, and gives them something to work to. The issue IS that this is a deathtrap in many ways, and that the 3rd level characters that were created weren't well suited for the adventure that was written. This results in less opportunity to shine and to learn to love it, making it less suited to new players.