How hard should I cripple the Alchemist


Homebrew and House Rules


So I'm working on my own setting for a campaign and I've decided to go with the idea that magic can't be learned, it's something you're either born with or gain through dealings with extraplanar entities. Basically this amounts to there being no Wizards or Magi, and heavier restrictions on multi-classing.

After some consideration I've decided to keep the Alchemist class but tweak it so that they aren't casters using magic to enhance Alchemy, but regular people using science to mimic magic. The trade off being the Alchemist loses access to some extracts (anything that can't be described through a physical change in the body ie. Shield)and some discoveries (Dispelling Bombs at least) as well as Spellcraft as a class skill (thinking Knowledge (Engineering)). In return they gain the bonus that all their extracts, bombs, and mutagens work even in antimagic fields.

Will add a complete list of extracts and discoveries I'll be cutting out but just looking for opinions on whether I'm crippling the Alchemist too much or not enough.


Just leave the class as is and say that part of an alchemist's training is finding their 'inner catalyst' and awakening their innate magical potential.


Is anyone actually planning to play an alchemist? If not, you may be doing a whole bunch of work for nothing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FuelDrop wrote:
Just leave the class as is and say that part of an alchemist's training is finding their 'inner catalyst' and awakening their innate magical potential.

That's basically the class description, anyway.


FuelDrop wrote:
Just leave the class as is and say that part of an alchemist's training is finding their 'inner catalyst' and awakening their innate magical potential.

Had considered leaving the class alone but I've just grown really attached to the idea that there is absolutely no magic involved in what they do, it's just science. I'm basically trying to rework them into an alternate path for the Gunslinger.

What I mean is (in the setting) you'd have Sorcerers and Bards (Innate Arcane), Witches and Summoners (Bonded Arcane), Clerics and Paladins (Civilized Divine), and Druids and Rangers (Wild Divine). The idea is to have the Alchemist and the Gunslinger be this settings response to these pairs from people who can't/don't use magic.

Blakmane wrote:
Is anyone actually planning to play an alchemist? If not, you may be doing a whole bunch of work for nothing.

At the moment no one is planning to play anything (just starting work on the setting) but conflict between the different kind of magics and between those with and those without magic are going to be some of the themes of the setting, and I like the idea of the Alchemist as a normal guy trying to level the playing field.

Sovereign Court

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I'd say change as little as possible; try to explain things as "it's SCIENCE!!" - even though alchemical science can do some things we can't currently do.

I admit that the Shield feels a bit strange though; stuff that's entirely separate from the body is off-flavor. In that case I'd say trade 1:1 - for every spell you remove from the alchemist because it doesn't fit, try to give them a new spell that's more on-flavor and fills the same niche.

So basically, don't nerf, but adjust by 5% sideways.


Ascalaphus wrote:

I'd say change as little as possible; try to explain things as "it's SCIENCE!!" - even though alchemical science can do some things we can't currently do.

I admit that the Shield feels a bit strange though; stuff that's entirely separate from the body is off-flavor. In that case I'd say trade 1:1 - for every spell you remove from the alchemist because it doesn't fit, try to give them a new spell that's more on-flavor and fills the same niche.

So basically, don't nerf, but adjust by 5% sideways.

That's what my Alchemist did in my campaign all on his own. He didn't like the magic fluff of the class and made it as science-y as possible. Worked out pretty well.


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It's not magic.

Nanomachines, son.


Why not just reflavor the extracts? Shield can be a physical but short term change that boosts AC. It still works just like the spell but is a science effect. That seems to be the easiest way to maintain balance and player expectations of what a class does.


I would have no nerf at all on this class.

Are you gonna have Sorcerers and oracles?


DrDeth wrote:

I would have no nerf at all on this class.

Are you gonna have Sorcerers and oracles?

Considering that he said all magic is "s something you're either born with or gain through dealings with extraplanar entities", seems pretty likely.

Anyways, yeah, the alchemist doesn't really need to be houseruled, it just needs to be reflavored.


Just reflavor shield as the potion unlocking your white blood cell's potential to generate defensive energy fields.

I don't think that's any less science-y than turning into a dire tiger from drinking something.


Yeah, reflavoring can do a LOT. I'd also consider leaving the concept of only having extracts, and include the use of single-use gadgets. For example, I have a hard time thinking of a non-magical extract that mimics Touch of the Sea, but some nifty strap-on swimming shoes? Sure thang! The same with shock shield and several others; they make more sense as mechanical gadgets than drinks.

However, some spells should probably be shifted for more low-key spells. Looking at the list, these are some spells I think I'd probably remove (unless someone has a good flavoring for it):

Level 1: Comprehend languages, enlarge person, reduce person.
Level 2: Alter self, detect thoughts, ghostly disguise, invisibility, minor dream

and so on. Basically, stuff that does really weird stuff with people or affect your surroundings in a "metaphysical" way (such as read thoughts or dreams) might be hard to fit in, but on the other hand, it should be easy to find other spells to substitute them for, especially from the divine lists (which currently aren't much represented in the alchemist).


You guys think I'm joking but nanomachines (and/or Jekkyl/Hyde-esque "Totally not magic" potions, but why go for the obvious?) work perfectly.

Touch of the Sea? My nanomachines give me limited shapeshifting! Now I have fins and air jets to travel quickly!

Fire Breath? My nanomachines have lined my esophagus and stomach with a fire proof material, and are producing a flammable gas that ignites on contact with air!

Shield? My nanomachines harden in response to physical trauma.


Depending on tech level and flavor of the world, nano machines might not really fit.

Firebreathing is very easy without resorting to that kind of stuff though.

Shadow Lodge

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One thing to keep in mind is that if the alchemist is 100% scientific rather than relying on some innate magic, then their extracts should work equally on everyone - they should get the Infusion discovery for free. This might balance out removing a few of the less-physical extracts like "Shield." Mutagens could be justified as requiring special physical training / chemical tolerance to use, thus still only working on the alchemist - though that's a little hand-wavy since it's weird to require special conditioning for a mutagen and not turning into an animal.

Alternatively the alchemist (or just some of the more out-there extracts) could function by stealing the innate magic from the alchemical components they use rather than using chemistry or biology we would recognize. That would mean that extracts (or some extracts) would fail to function in antimagic, but alchemists would still be distinct from those with innate magic or those who actually consort with magical beings.

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