I seem to recall back in 3.0 that some of the first adventures came out from 3PP companies. Not official perhaps. Hopefully this is just an indication of a more open attitude toward 3rd party participation in 5e. Kobold Press does great stuff and Wolfgang certainly has been a part of several editions so not too big a surprise to see him writing some stuff for Wizards.
I think this was mostly a quality/economic decision. The core 5E team at WotC has I am sure been focused on getting all of the rules tight and working on all of the technical details of the starter and core books. They, wisely I believe, contracted out to a team with the Kobolds who have done a lot of great work with adventures and who I'm sure many of them know on a personal level (I believe most of the Kobolds have at one time or another worked with TSR/WotC). I'm guessing these adventures will be really well done and do a lot to jump start the new edition.
Now I'm curious what will happen on the DDI/Dragon/Dungeon front in support of Next.
A mighty coup for Kobold Press, and well deserved by Wolfgang and the other guy I have no idea who is (Steve Winter).
Extremely disappointed Forgotten Boredoms was chosen as the campaign setting for these adventures. I liked the broad strokes of 4e's default setting, and the first adventures made for it.
@Kvantum - pretty sure Kobold Press did/edited Deep Magic, while Wolfgang did these adventures. If the adventures were also edited by KP, and not WotC then there is a possibility you are onto something, but I suspect not.
@Kvantum -- Deep Magic was primarily edited and developed by Amanda Hamon Kunz. There are roughly 57 issues noted in the printing so far. The core rules note about 130 in the same pagecount, as of errata 1.4. I hardly think it's "flawed," and I certainly think this isn't the thread to get into it. If you're that upset with it, you PM me and I'll buy your copy from you, so you don't need to suffer any longer.
@OSW -- Forgotten Realms was the default for 4E, though, too. And Steve Winter is old school to new school. Let me link that up for you, here Forgotten Realms has their largest fanbase, and they've been maintaining that property for twenty seven years. Additionally, a new edition allows them to push the timeline and further modify the world-state after 4E and the spellplague. The only realm with longer legs is Greyhawk, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it get a treatment, based on the paradigm that you can play adventures of any edition with this edition. (I'm wondering how close that ended up being in the final product.)
-Ben.
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A mighty coup for Kobold Press, and well deserved by Wolfgang and the other guy I have no idea who is (Steve Winter).
Steve's been in the industry a long time and has MANY credits to his name
Paraphrased from the Steve Winter Wiki entry:
Steve Winter began with TSR in May 1981 as a Games Editor and is credited as the editor of both Star Frontiers boxed games, the Gangbusters games, the 1983 World of Greyhawk revision, and the Top Secret Companion. Jeff Grubb and Winter designed the Marvel Super Heroes RPG.
He's worked on many game products for Dungeons & Dragons since 1981, as a designer, editor, coordinator, and creative director, including Ruins of Adventure, The Complete Psionics Handbook, the 3rd edition version of Monster Manual II, and Lords of Madness. He also co-wrote the Dragonlance novel Wanderlust with his wifeMary Kirchoff.
@Marc - I've been playing since 1982, and I still am not familiar with Steve Winter. I have heard the name once or twice. I'm happy for him. I was just saying I don't really know that much about him.
@Ben - I understand why they chose FR. Just personally disappointed. I have no connection to the Realms and have watched with mild bemusement as people with far more investment than I in the CS freak out over the Spellplague, whatever that is. Sounds very Greenwoodian, for all that he might not have actually had anything to with it. That's always been my problem with FR - it's a bunch of cobbled together noun-adjective names and a faux-European/Celtic setting with some fairly derivative motes added in. Probably why I enjoy Midgard. ;)
As I said in another thread, if Dark Sun and Eberron, Birthright get support, I'll be more interested in this edition.
And a truly open OGL will have me completely.
@MArc and Ben: thanks both for the linx
So after Red Hand of Doom and Scales of War they throw Tiamat at us again? Meh.
Yes she doesn't have 7 rune heads....
Don't forget new peeps will be meeting her for the 1st time. I think starting of with dragons is a good start. After all there is lot of PF in PF forex.
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Exciting time for Kobold Press, they do excellent work. Looking forward to many more adventures from them!
I do have to wonder, is this why we lost Kobold Quarterly?
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I do have to wonder, is this why we lost Kobold Quarterly?
Are you serious? You cannot be serious. KQ#23 came out in October of 2012. The Next Playtest began just before that. There is no way they are related, the timelines simply don't match. KQ#23 didn't even have any 4E content in it.
-Ben.
Good luck with this...sounds good thus far
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New interview with Wolfgang Baur and Steve Winter about the Tyranny Of Dragons adventures over on the Escapist:
Talking Dungeons & Dragons: Tyranny of Dragons Adventures With the Designers
And here's one over at EN World:
Kobold Press on TYRANNY OF DRAGONS, Their Contribution to D&D 5TH EDITION!.
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A mighty coup for Kobold Press, and well deserved by Wolfgang and the other guy I have no idea who is (Steve Winter).
Extremely disappointed Forgotten Boredoms was chosen as the campaign setting for these adventures. I liked the broad strokes of 4e's default setting, and the first adventures made for it.
@Kvantum - pretty sure Kobold Press did/edited Deep Magic, while Wolfgang did these adventures. If the adventures were also edited by KP, and not WotC then there is a possibility you are onto something, but I suspect not.
The best we are probably going to get is Dark Sun out of that bunch (frowns). Dark Sun is probably the third most popular campaign world. As for Eberron, I'm holding my breath. Advertising blitzes during that campaign setting's heyday really KILLLED the world. The folks at TSR really knew how to market a campaign setting, and Wizards of the Coast uses an advertising blitz, though, to tell us about it.
Birthright was the strongest Campaign Setting to come out of TSR back then. It was so well done it felt like you could go there and live there. Dark Sun was the next, and then Greyhawk, and then Forgotten Realms (they utterly destroyed the Realms over it's 27 year history, putting in things that made you go, "huh?" Popularity sacked verisimilitude).
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New interview with Wolfgang Baur and Steve Winter about the Tyranny Of Dragons adventures over on the Escapist:
Talking Dungeons & Dragons: Tyranny of Dragons Adventures With the Designers
And here's one over at EN World:
Kobold Press on TYRANNY OF DRAGONS, Their Contribution to D&D 5TH EDITION!.
Marc, it's not enough to compete with Paizo. But we'll see. I really want to see good competition for Paizo from Wizards of the Coast, REALLY good competition. White Wolf is hanging out in the wings with a 3rd edition of EXALTED, but some really good competition from Wizards of the Coast.
If D&D 5th was as open as third, then yeah. I can also see major innovations coming from Paizo in the next two years.
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New interview with Wolfgang Baur and Steve Winter about the Tyranny Of Dragons adventures over on the Escapist:
Talking Dungeons & Dragons: Tyranny of Dragons Adventures With the Designers
And here's one over at EN World:
Kobold Press on TYRANNY OF DRAGONS, Their Contribution to D&D 5TH EDITION!.
Marc, it's not enough to compete with Paizo. But we'll see. I really want to see good competition for Paizo from Wizards of the Coast, REALLY good competition. White Wolf is hanging out in the wings with a 3rd edition of EXALTED, but some really good competition from Wizards of the Coast.
If D&D 5th was as open as third, then yeah. I can also see major innovations coming from Paizo in the next two years.
Elton, I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to get across here or in the previous post (although I've seen some of your other posts regarding topics like this, so I think I have my suspicians), but nothing was said about competing with Paizo. These are simply two recent interviews that folks might find interesting and/or informative, that's all.
Kobold Press has a very good relationship with Paizo and will continue to produce LOT'S of Pathfinder material. Please don't try to work in personal agendas or try to turn this into some sort of Paizo vs. WotC thread, OK?
They had me at 'choices'.
I'm in
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Actually, no.
Mark, I'm looking at the history of WotC's advertising, how they handled certain properties before with their Advertising, and what happened. I'm not looking for a WotC vs. Paizo thread, I'm looking at the health of D&D, as under WotC's stewardship.
When I was perusing QuestionCopyright.org, Nina Paley talked about what a free license and free culture can do. Or basically described how Free Cultural Content benefits us all. When she talked about the Advertising Blitz that a copyrighted property goes through, and how it's value shoots up like a rocket and then drops like a rock --> she was describing with clarity, the life of Eberron; and basically all D&D products.
However, when she talked about how content that was made free will rise in value over time, I noticed this is what happened to the d20 system. (the 1st era, when everyone and their dog cashed in, was a boom in product -- and a lot of subpar items. I got of a few of them myself -- but it was the market in action in reaction to freeing up a significant part of Gaming Culture). When Paizo picked up the 3.5 d20 system and revised into Pathfinder, they showed how valuable it can be, especially with their business model.
Mark, think for a moment, just think where I am getting at. If D&D NEXT was freed, a lot of people that play pathfinder will go support D&D Next (and 3P publishers, of course). And then in two years, Pathfinder can naturally evolve with a new edition. It would have been AWESOME!! Two major companies with open systems supported by OGL games!
The market might still have a lot of subpar content because they don't have editors or some such, but hey -- we would get a new Pathfinder. So to summarize:
This isn't about the death of D&D, it's about the decisions that WotC have made while 3.x was under their stewardship. While I trust that WotC will always make the right decision to stay alive as a COMPANY, I don't trust that WotC will always make the right decision when it comes to the health of D&D. Sometimes, when you let it go the first time, you need to let go a second time. :)
Forgotten Realms has their largest fanbase, and they've been maintaining that property for twenty seven years. Additionally, a new edition allows them to push the timeline and further modify the world-state after 4E and the spellplague.
Admittedly, I haven't been following Forgotten Realms for the last several years, since 4E came out actually, so I'm not super knowledgeable for what is currently going on with it. But I thought I had heard this whole Sundering thing was their way of retconning FR back to its pre-Spellplague state, as to capitalize on the setting in its most popular form (2E/3E). Is that incorrect?
The market might still have a lot of subpar content because they don't have editors or some such, but hey -- we would get a new Pathfinder. So to summarize:
A Copyrighted work will have less life in it than a non-copyrighted work. I.e. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings vs. Shakespeare's A Mid-summer's Night's Dream. Tolkien's work, other than the movies, isn't really living. While Shakespeare's beautiful plays are played all over the world and translated freely into 80 different languages and are shown in any genre you can imagine.
D&D 3.x through the d20 system and Pathfinder will be more valuable than D&D Next; although WotC will do it's hardest to make sure it stays on top, but with a limited license.
Based on how WotC advertises it's properties, D&D Next will be media blitzed to get a big audience, until the next edition, when D&D Next will gain a cult following. Meanwhile, any new setting they come up with during D&D Next will also be media blitzed to get a big audience, and then they will be officially dumped, while having a cult following.
If they made the game as open as 3.x, D&D Next will be media blitzed, and it's value will rise as each 3rd Party Publisher gets on board to support it. It will go the same speed as the d20 system, but it won't have the meteoric rise that 3.x did. It won't taper off, nay, it will continue to build as a classic.
It would have taken a lot of people away from Paizo, because of the 3rd party support. Because of this, Paizo would be forced to evolve Pathfinder to stay on top. INNOVATION, man, INNOVATION BY COMPETITION!
3.x will stay alive, because there will always be 3rd party publishers to support it. And our culture will thrive. :) But thanks to the OGL, D&D will always stay alive in some form or another. :) OSRIC, Castles and Crusades, and all the rest -- including Pathfinder -- proves it.
This isn't about the death of D&D, it's about the decisions that WotC have made while 3.x was under their stewardship. While I trust that WotC will always make the right decision to stay alive as a COMPANY, I don't trust that WotC will always make the right decision when it comes to the health of D&D. Sometimes, when you let it go the first time, you need to let go a second time. :)
As you conclude, WOTC will do what is best for the company, and in this case that is the bottom line. I don't think they care (and arguably they shouldn't as a profit enterprise) that x edition will exist 100 years from now. OGL was good for DnD, but created a means for a competitor to come in and scoop up the 3.5 fans, people who otherwise might have eventually switched over, and lead to the creation of a powerful rival.
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The thing is Elton, you already have a thread (which you created, by the way) in which you go on and on at great length about your views on this topic of making everything free and open. You have an opinion, we get that - it's an opinion that some might share with you; it's one that I know many do not share with you. You don't need to keep hammering it again and again.
You *really* didn't need to jump into this thread, which is simply about Kobold Press designing the first adventures, something which they are understandably excited about.
I'd like to respectfully ask that you try not to jump into every thread you can to express this same opinion ... over and over again.
Fair?
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Interesting that they chose to outsource the first big adventure. Not sure what that means in the long run. Or what it means for their business plan.
Hopefully it doesn't mean they'll do the opposite of Paizo and concentrate on pumping out more rules while letting 3PP do the adventures and settings. That's a recipe for quick bloat. Unless they're skimming enough from the 3PP to cover not doing it themselves.
Nothing against Kobold of course. Everything I've heard says they do good work and this has to be huge for them.
Well lets be honest. WOTC is pretty much not that good at adventure writing...with very few excptions(RHoD was great). So for the first adventure for a new edition I can easily see why they would turn to outside sources for it. Anyone that remembers 4e launch and the first adventure(shadowfell keep? wasn't it) remembers how it wasn't that good. Advanture needs to shine the first out of the gate.
I am keen for dnd to succeed but I agree the adventure quality in house for 3e onwards was very patchy. Most of the best PF adventures are also 3pp, so this is a good move IMO
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I picked up my copy of Hoard of the Dragon Queen today. It's a lovely looking book. I've only skimmed the adventure so far, but I like the look of it - a nice, classic theme.
Nice work Wolfgang, Marc and the rest of the kobolds. :)
Just ordered a copy online. I'm really excited about playing 5E D&D and running the Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure from Kobold Press! I feel like a kid at Christmas time :)
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I've started running the Hoard module for a group at my local shop.
The opening parts are great. Right into the action.
I did find the tie ins for characters and reasons for completing parts of the game a little flimsy. However, that's only for how my home group would operate. The group at the game shop are right into it.
It has a great mix of combat and roleplay elements as well. Huge leeway for DM's to run with NPCs as they need.
Production wise, it's a beautiful book. Fantastic art and maps, well laid out, easily formatted for DM's to use in the hustle and bustle of a game.
Nice work Kobold. A pretty good effort for a first module under a new system where you were still waiting for parts of the game to be finished.
Cheers
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Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge
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Thank you, Steve and Blue_Drake!
Wrath, thank you for mentioning the game shop group. I'm really pleased that the adventure has been built for both home play and more casual play. The goal was to give the GM tools to make it their own, and freedom to add and drop elements to suit their group's style.
And yes, designing this while the core rules were still in flux was a challenge. But I'm extremely happy with how it turned out.
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Thank you, Steve and Blue_Drake!
Wrath, thank you for mentioning the game shop group. I'm really pleased that the adventure has been built for both home play and more casual play. The goal was to give the GM tools to make it their own, and freedom to add and drop elements to suit their group's style.
And yes, designing this while the core rules were still in flux was a challenge. But I'm extremely happy with how it turned out.
No worries :)
It certainly has that freedom built into it. The NPC list in the 4th chapter is great. Superb ideas for different types of folks to drop into a group depending on what they like.
I'll pop back in here in a few weeks and let you know how it's been going.
Cheers
I just got my copy last night and it looks great. I look forward to running the adventure for my group and picking up part II when it releases.
I sincerely hope that Kobold Press gets the opportunity to create more adventures for 5th edition.
Great job guys!
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I just got my copy last night and it looks great. I look forward to running the adventure for my group and picking up part II when it releases.
I sincerely hope that Kobold Press gets the opportunity to create more adventures for 5th edition.
Great job guys!
Heya Drake, I've nearly finished the first chapter. Some things I've noted in case you need some advice
The advantage mechanic is deadly when kobolds gang up on players. I had a near TPK running an encounter where the kobolds got to act early in initiative. We were all completely caught by surprise by this event.
Any creature with multitrack in its stats can drop a 1st level player in one round. Some of the encounters have these guys stacked with kobolds and cultists. Try to come up with a way for the players to realise how deadly this is without just telling them. I don't think I gave my group enough of a hint to how dangerous that would be and thus we ended up with the TPK situation above.
My group are really enjoying it. The first chapter is a screamer of a start. Real pressure cooker, and nice feel of desperation.
Cheers
Thanks for the heads up!
My group loves to charge in head first and start swinging so I'll definitely need to find a way to impress upon them that caution is needed.
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I picked this up at GenCon. It’s a beautiful book. It’s also very detailed and full of great, dynamic encounters. I can also sum up its writing and play style with the following:
“The training wheels are off.”
While a new DM might feel overloaded, I love it. I’ve read up to page 45 and it feels like it already covers a dozen sessions of play or more. Great locations, supurb NPCs and lots of roleplaying opportunities. Nice relaxed writing style too. And how it’s not so much mission-based, but there’s obvious goals to achieve, the book presents them, then lets the players determine how to go about tackling any of them making it feel like they are in a lot of control, no railroad here.
I’m having too much fun reading it. I will certainly be running it, and once I do I must remember to write a full review.
Great work on this guys!
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I'm guessing it's set in the Forgotten Realms? How closely is it tied to that world? Does it still work if, for example, Tiamat is not a known part of history or mythology?
I don't think you'd have any trouble at all converting this to other game settings. Probably switch out Tiamat for some other nefarious evil deity thing and got from there. From this first book, I can't see too much that makes this a " must be Tiamat " game. The more you drift from the dragon idea though the harder the work will be to convert it.
Eberron - it could be a plot of the dragons of argonesan. Something they've read in the tapestry perhaps. Just have to change the names of locations now.
Grey hawk - no changes really needed. I think Tiamat was part of that pantheon as well? Not too sure. Dragons are pretty powerful in that one though so it should meld easily.
Golarion - if your swithing this to paizo style, maybe it would work to have lamashtu or Rovagug as a driving force. Or stick to the concept of the Runelords coming back and this is just one more plot to get them coming into things.
Those were me just riffing ideas over about three minutes having read the full module. I'm not sure how tight the second module is going to be though, so can't comment on how the later parts of the campaign will play out.
Cheers.