Getting constant Heroism on gloves does work out as 12000GP, and is a pretty good deal if your GM allows it. +2 to hit, all saves and all skill checks is very nice indeed for the cost. It's worth noting that it's a morale bonus, so it won't stack with other morale bonuses, and can be improved by anything that benefits morale bonuses (like the courageous weapon enchantment).
*Edit* Hmm. With the Courageous weapon enchantment on a +4 or +5 weapon these gloves would end up giving you a constant +4 to hit, and to all saves and skill checks. Well worth the money.
No and no and no.
Take a look at any of the numerous threads about making any items with continuous spells in. The key parts are: the formulae are only for use after all other methods of pricing an item have been tried; find a similar item for comparison; bonuses that mimic or replicate something else cost the same as the thing they mimic; etc. Read the whole section, not just the tables.
Permanent heroism in particular would be unbalanced unless it were so expensive that half the target market decides they can't afford it.
The only comparable bonus I can think of is a Flawed Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone, giving a +1 morale bonus to hit, saves, skill checks *and* ability checks. It's slotless which typically doubles the price of items, and the price is 28k. Similar but granting a luck bonus is a Stone of Good Luck at 20k.
Arguably if you're using a Flawed Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone as a template then a straight price of 14k should cover a constant +1 bonus on gloves (as a slotted item), but would also give a +1 morale bonus to ability checks.
Possibly a more balanced way to price constant heroism it would be to use the level 3 version of the spell, as it's only available as a level 2 spell to bards. This works out as 3 x 5 x 2000 x 1.5 = 45000gp. At just over double the cost of a stone of good luck that's still a fairly good deal.
*Edit* I also think the original calculation of 2 x 2 x 2000 x 1.5 is wrong. A bard must be a minimum of level 4 to cast heroism or to choose to know it (a level 2 spell). So it should really work out as a minimum of 24000gp, though 45000gp is probably fairer.
If you're trying to improve your hit chances as a rogue then also consider a Headband of the Ninjitsu for a +2 to hit bonus, as well as the ability to sneak attack concealed opponents.
The only comparable bonus I can think of is a Flawed Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone, giving a +1 morale bonus to hit, saves, skill checks *and* ability checks. It's slotless which typically doubles the price of items, and the price is 28k. Similar but granting a luck bonus is a Stone of Good Luck at 20k.
Arguably if you're using a Flawed Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone as a template then a straight price of 14k should cover a constant +1 bonus on gloves (as a slotted item), but would also give a +1 morale bonus to ability checks.
The flawed pale green prism does look like the 'best fit'; it is 28,000gp to buy, which includes the doubled price for being slotless, so you are correct in thinking that magical Gloves with a +1 morale bonus should cost 14,000gp.
Normally, the price then increases exponentially for higher bonuses: a +1 sword is 2,000gp, +2 is 8,000gp, etc. Using that rate of increase as the guideline for +2 morale bonuses to attack, saves and skills (the ability check bonus could be dropped, but how much is that going to be worth? Easier to keep it along with the full price) gives a final price of 14,000x4= 56,000gp.
However, you also have to look at what the alternatives to this new item are:
weapon +3 is 18,000gp; going up to +5 (at 50,000gp) would cost 32,000gp. Going up from +5 to a hypothetical +7 costs 48,000gp. These also add to damage, so are better which influences the next question:
Do the Gloves of Heroism +2 look like something you'd get before upgrading the weapon? If so, it makes the weapon upgrade obsolete. If not, then you still have to look at the saving throw bonuses in the same way.
Cloak +3 is 9,000gp, it costs another 14,000gp to get to +5. A hypothetical +7 cloak would cost another 24,000gp over and above the +5 cloak.
Again, ask youself the question: are the Gloves better than both the weapon upgrade and the cloak upgrades put together? (I make that worth about 60,000gp to someone who already has +5 items (24,000 for the cloak; 48,000gp less a bit for the lack of damage upgrade for the weapon) but to someone with +3 items, 56,000gp looks a bit expensive) And that still hasn't considered +2 to all skills and to ability checks.
This is what I meant by saying that 'half the target market should regard the item as too expensive to buy' and so the final price should vary depending on the campaign, the GM, and the players.
The existence of the ioun stone shows that the game is 'officially balanced' with a +1 item; the absence of higher morale bonuses mean that you need to be very careful adding them in.
PS all pricing by spell level is done in a specific order: if a spell exists on Sorc/Wiz list, then you must use that level; next comes the cleric/oracle list; etc. So, unless you have an actual bard making this item, it must be assumed to be made by a wiz/sorc.
PPS the Headband of the Ninjitsu only adds 'to hit' when making a sneak attack, not in normal combat.
PS all pricing by spell level is done in a specific order: if a spell exists on Sorc/Wiz list, then you must use that level; next comes the cleric/oracle list; etc. So, unless you have an actual bard making this item, it must be assumed to be made by a wiz/sorc.
PPS the Headband of the Ninjitsu only adds 'to hit' when making a sneak attack, not in normal combat.
Do you know where this rule is from?
Do you know where this rule is from?PS all pricing by spell level is done in a specific order: if a spell exists on Sorc/Wiz list, then you must use that level; next comes the cleric/oracle list; etc. So, unless you have an actual bard making this item, it must be assumed to be made by a wiz/sorc.
PPS the Headband of the Ninjitsu only adds 'to hit' when making a sneak attack, not in normal combat.
Interesting. You know how you know stuff, without really noticing from where you know it? Well, I've just been looking for the rule: could'nt find it in the magic item creation rules, nor in the FAQs. The best version I've found so far comes from the Universal Monster Rules, about SLAs:
"A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order."This was written before summoners, etc were invented.
If I find a better source, then I'll add it; otherwise, it seems like a reasonable rule-of-thumb, but it can be no more than a house rule I've adopted thinking it was real. And there was me being all authoritative about it!
Or if you have money, a Ring of Invisibility can make most opponents flat-footed against your first attack while letting you get to the flank for the +2 to hit without suffering AoOs.
can i use the ring in every round? fullaction attacks or just move and standard?? ex. 1st round ,use ring get in posision hit, become visible again. 2nd round ,use ring full attack, 3rd round, use ring move to next target/posision.... etc
seems IMBA
Standard Action to activate the ring.
You can benefit from it every other round.Attack, invisibility, attack, repeat.
Only the first attack each round will be a sneak attack by the way.
Activating the ring is a standard action, which is why you start with it active and move into a flanking position while invisible. The first attack will break your invisibility, which is why you moved through its threatened area while you were invisible and couldn't be targeted with AoOs. The flanking will make you able to full attack sneak attack in round two if the opponent hasn't gone down to you and your flanking buddy already. Then when you aren't next to anyone you standard action activate the ring and move into the flank on the next opponent. This is a way to have the squishy rogue up in melee with the tougher martials without letting the enemies target you very often, not a replacement for your mage friend casting Greater Invisibility on you to turn you into invisible death.