Goblin Squad Member
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Hi folks,
Call me a n00b, loser, whatever you may, but I see several times on these forums people speaking in terms of winning or losing.
How exactly does one "win" an open sandbox MMO? Is there some big boss battle at the end that I haven't heard about yet? :)
I thought the intent was to create this living/breathing world that persisted on its own?
As an example, I didn't join TEO thinking in terms of defending my settlement or military strategy. I joined what sounded like a group of like-minded individuals that I would enjoy playing with.
As I have mentioned before I am more interested in PvE, though not PvP averse. But how am I to enjoy exploring looking for some uncharted dungeon (or whatever) when I am constantly going to need to worry about the "strategy" of my decision or if some angry miscreant wants to attack our settlement just to prove himself right?
Am I in the wrong place here? :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Whenever I say 'win' it is sarcastically.
There is no winning in a sandbox.
Technically 'winning' would be controlling the entire map, but I'm sure GW will never let an organization get close to half of that.
Winning would also be completing every skill training, but that will be impossible unless GW takes a 20 year break from adding to the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Winning is having the freedom to do exactly what you want, mostly whenever you want, without having to worry about how the entire world will come down on you. Winning the game means that you don't have to constantly worry about your settlement being jumped when you are in an uncharted dungeon. You have the social structure, the manpower, and the sheer force of will that it isn't an issue.
You win by playing the game you want to play, with the people you want to play with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Winning to me means holding a settlement spot my character is sponsored by. Losing would mean losing that settlement. But as in sports, I'll play as many games as I can until I grow old and can't play no more or don't enjoy playing anymore. Simple. Win some, lose some. :)
Though I might change my mind on the definition of winning and losing in PFO as time passes, who knows... or give up on those concepts all together, who knows... :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think "winning" is having meaningful interactions with other people, to be honest. Now for some, that meaningful interaction is to just enjoy their company and feel a part of a cool community. Meaningful interaction for another group would include being part of a well-organized fighting force and have a hard battle that was a blast...and while most would prefer to win the most mature of them would appreciate the battle as much as winning. Yet another 'meaningful interaction' is to live out the fantasy of being an outlaw...a real badxxx....and rob the rich to give to their pockets. Not my style, but still game meaningful interaction if done with intent.
For others, however, 'meaningful interaction' is to travel to new lands, meet new people, kill them out of spite and feel superior in this small thing because the rest of their life is such a miserable mess.
I'm hoping we GW will actively discourage the latter group because their 'meaningful interaction' is only valid if it hurts other's enjoyment of the game rather than supports it.
So 'winning' is used to mean feeling a sense of accomplishment in whatever way you find it (within the intent of the game.) Your 'winning' is totally valid and you should reject any notion that it is somehow less valid than the PvPrs. They'll prat and prance around about how much harder PvP is than PvE, but in truth they are just different types of play that rewards different skills. Alternately, PvP "winning" is also a valid style of play and doesn't make you juvenile if you find a sense of accomplishment from the fight.
Maybe slightly different than Morbis (whose definition of winning appears to be possessing enabling power), but some of the essence is the same.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think anyone is talking so much in terms of win vs. lose so much as building a powerful / successful player faction or having your holdings torched and members dispersed.
Territory ownership is critical in PFO so those groups who get booted out of their holdings will suffer massive membership losses. Those that survive it once are unlikely too survive if it happens too often.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Even simpler than Nihimon: win = fun, lose = not-fun. A leading indicator of the latter might be if PFO starts to feel like another job, rather than a game.
Completely agree here. One of the reason I stopped playing DDO was because it started to feel like a job and was no longer fun for me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...those groups who get booted out of their holdings will suffer massive membership losses.
I believe this is the kind of mindset that some may have when they speak of winning or losing the game. There are those who abandon their company when things don't go their way so it it reasonable for them to believe that "massive" numbers of other people think the way they think.
Many others here have expressed that getting "booted out of their holdings" would be a strong incentive to hold fast with their companions, dig in their heels, and fight back for all they're worth. I personally would relish the opportunity to fight beside my companions no matter the outcome because the fun comes from the struggle, from facing a challenge head-on with ingenuity, commitment, and teamwork. That sense of accomplishment in the face of adversity is what engenders that feeling of being a winner.
Others might run away from such a challenge, abandoning their teammates, and by doing so create their own self-fulfilling prophecy of being a loser.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...those groups who get booted out of their holdings will suffer massive membership losses.I believe this is the kind of mindset that some may have when they speak of winning or losing the game. ... Many others here have expressed that getting "booted out of their holdings" would be a strong incentive to hold fast with their companions, dig in their heels, and fight back for all they're worth.
This may be a place where those of us becoming involved with our groups before--in some cases, LONG before--there's a PFO may be at an advantage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This may be a place where those of us becoming involved with our groups before--in some cases, LONG before--there's a PFO may be at an advantage.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Making a long-term commitment to one's teammates helps to foster that sense of pride in their, and by extension your, accomplishments. At that point, everything that happens with your team is a "win" because you all had fun doing it together.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Different guilds are interested in different things:
Settlement, Lore, Dwarfs, Barbarians, Herbs, Assassination, RP, LGBT, Greek, Mercenaries, Trade, Chaos etc etc...
There seems like a lot of choice in game how you decide to form your own goals. The more diversity the better I think.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For me, the "win" condition is having fun, the "lose" condition is cheating.What if someone has fun while cheating? ;)
Then they are losing, not just at PFO. If it were a single-player game, sure, cheat your heart out if it's fun for you. If your only way to have fun in an MMO is to cheat, you shouldn't be playing an MMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Was the OP genuinely asking about winning in PFO?
I kind of figured he just wanted to point out that talking in terms of winning and losing in this game was silly since the conflict is never ending.
It is interesting to see everyone using the word win as if it didn't mean that you were victorious in a contest or conflict, resulting in a loser as well as an end to that contest or conflict.
But in all seriousness I am going to win so hard in this game. So hard!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Winning is playing an MMO for many years, and still finding something new to do in it.
This is pretty close for me, but I'd replace "new" with "worthwhile". I want to feel like after a play session, my character has progressed in some fashion. I need to have something to do that's actually worth my time, while also not feeling like needless tedium.
I LOVE the AA system in Everquest, for example. Always some way to make your character better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The EQ AA system always felt bolted on, but it did offer a lot of value in advancement. If it had been available from level 10 or so, with proper scaling, it would have added a lot more value to the game in terms of character customization I think.
One thing they did not really make use of was to alter or replace your skills/spells with variants, as that can offer a very deep level of customization. Provided the variants are significantly different, yet still balanced with the originals.