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I want to run an e6 campaign with mythic tiers earned depending on actions. Has anyone ran an e6 campaign with Mytics?
I may go up to e8 but NO higher.
It does seem like those things ae at odds with one another.
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Some people choose E6 so that player power level is more in line with guard power level (no super heroes).
Other people choose it to avoid world bending stuff like teleportation and demiplanes.
Adding a few mythic ranks doesn't defeat the second one, and is only so damaging to the first.
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That's a really unusual combination. I'm sure somebody has, but E6 tables and mythic tables probably don't overlap often...
I'm genuinely curious what sort of campaign concept you have that requires the use of level limits and yet requires mythic rank advancement.
I've actually considered the same thing. While I haven't actually tried it out in play yet, the reason I considered it is that Mythic rules appear to advance the characters in mathematical power level for the equivalent of about another 5 or six character levels, allowing the PCs to fight classic mid and high level monsters, without introducing spell levels or other abilities that completely break the "heroic fantasy" paradigm and/or obsolete non-casters.
Plus it provides a fun explanation for the zero-to-hero climb - if the characters are gaining in mythic power rather than skill and experience, it explains why only a few months of practice can turn a decent swordsman into a breaker-of-armies.
Seems doable. For my own preferences, I would highly edit the available options to Mythic characters. Trying to stylize them as heroes I think is great. Styling them as mini-gods wouldn't work for me.
In other words, all of the Base Mythic Abilities up to the 7th tier could work. Some of the Path abilities could work, but many of them would have to be removed or edited.
If you put such a system in place, I think you could create a sort of ancient greece feel where certain heroes are just so far above normal men, but still not gods. Being able to dodge better then other men, hit harder, jump farther, fight longer, etc. But not randomly throw out souped up magical spells.
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No question that it's a major power up and in fact the mythic system was designed for such a thing. Level 8 with tier 10 mythic? No problem!
It's - definitely - a game changer, but you still don't get the planar shifting scry n fry teleportation reality warping wishes that can happen in a game that goes to level 20.
If this game is something you are doing online I'd definitely be interested :)
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The more I think about this, the more brilliant I think it is. It certainly is a power increase. But its the kind of power increase you WANT to see in an E6 game. You dont get access reality warping high level spells, or impposibly high hit points. You'll gain some, you'll be above and beyond normal mortals, but I think it works as a form of later progression in an E6 game. Say after you have taken 5-6 Epic feats, you have an opportunity to gain a mythic tier (plot permitting).
I really like this idea.
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No question that it's a major power up and in fact the mythic system was designed for such a thing. Level 8 with tier 10 mythic? No problem!
It's - definitely - a game changer, but you still don't get the planar shifting scry n fry teleportation reality warping wishes that can happen in a game that goes to level 20.
If this game is something you are doing online I'd definitely be interested :)
Yeah, that's exactly the sort of stuff that I would be seeking to avoid in an E6 + Mythic game. That's the sort of game where a character can win a melee with an army, jump 50 feet from standing, or survive being dipped in lava, but not teleport halfway across the world or clone themselves.
One nice thing about mythic is that it leaves the choice open to the GM for exactly how mythic power is received. I've considered the idea that the PCs are the chosen champions of the gods, drank a potion that imbued superhuman strength into their blood, or even came into the possession of a magical item or artifact that imbued them with this power.
Or, for that matter, maybe that's what happens to people who go through "training from hell" that is only given to the worthiest students as chosen by the old Kung Fu man in the mountain monastery - true skill means the ability to transcend mortal limitations out of sheer excellence and will.
Wow this blew up. I posted and walked away and it came back up.
My reasoning is that you really make em earn it.. You cap at 6 and earn feats the normal way (exp buy). If you do something staggering within those limitations you get a mythic tier. Its the reward for using ingenuity.
The Ancient Greece idea is spot on.
I thought that was half the point of Mythic honestly. To be able to be "Epic" at any power level rather than 20+. Mythic is a completely modular system in this regard.
Mythic tiers aren't tied in any way, shape, or form to experience and thus you could have a Tier 10 Level 1 character or a Level 20 Tier 1 character equally easily.
I'm gearing up for a Birthright Kingmaker E6 Mythic campaign (starts tomorrow) and basically what I did was translate Blood Abilities into Path Abilities, translated Mythic Paths into Bloodlines and translated the Mythic Trials into increases in Bloodline Score you must achieve (through acts of heroism, bloodtheft, etc.) Mythic Power=Regency Points.
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The whole point of E6 is to avoid super powers. Mythic defeats the point of going E6 in the first place.I want to run an e6 campaign with mythic tiers earned depending on actions. Has anyone ran an e6 campaign with Mytics?
I may go up to e8 but NO higher.
Couldn't disagree more.
The point of E6 is to avoid super powers that are inherent in the leveling system. Mythic doesn't change the power curve so much as act as rocket fuel; a force multiplier. Mythic Tiers aren't really equivalent to levels, they're more like a multiplier.Doing as the OP suggests limits spellcasting and thus magic items, but gives the players free reign to add rocket fuel to the powers they have. It makes it a more crazy action COMBAT oriented game, but the higher level, plot-controlling spells are hedged out.
Honestly, I think E6+Mythic is the best representation of classic fantasy heroes.
So would you allow path abilities or just use the general mythic powers?
True. Maybe allow 1st tier abilities in all paths (I haven't read all the paths tbh just Archmage) and the rest need to be universal. I wont be giving them out as part of the story (or at least I dont PLAN too) they will need ot go above and beyond and or seek out the impossible. Im encouraged. I havent been this excited for a new homebrew in a while. Just gotta compile all these ideas.
interested in hearing how this turns out. I'm a big fan of E6 or more recently P6...as in P6Codex, a work in progress search the homebrew board for it.
i like the idea of the GM having a firm grasp of the mythic tier rewards. opposed to earning a tier every X epic advancement.
mythic powers/path list should be hand picked by GM
I've been thinking for awhile of doing the same thing. I'd be very interested in how you put the two together and what pitfalls you run into!
So would you allow path abilities or just use the general mythic powers?There are quite few mythic powers that are major game changers.
Legendary weapon. What's going to be one of the first abilities picked?..... Answer... Undetectable.
Inspired spell/Arcane Surge.... ANY spell on your list that's within your casting level available at the cost of one mythic point.
What you will be FORCED to do, is to pit them against mythic foes regularly, which means you're playing very different assumptions than a standard E6 campaign.
I am not sure you would be forced do this. What does inspired spell really do? Make spontaneous casters have some of the capability of a well prepared wizard or cleric? is that really game changing? Its good for sure. But its not a game changer.
I'd possibly leave out legendary items as an option and only place specific ones potentially in the game, as you mention undetectable seems like it could be a problem. Though obviously the character needs the means to turn invisible as far as I read the description. And since its an E6 game, improved invisibility will never come up. So sure you are undetectable while invisible until you do something offensive. But a character with a descent stealth is already undetectable while invisible at low levels baring very specific counter measures. Again it doesnt seem like a game changer to me.
I've actually been talking to my groups gm that is running an E6 game. My thoughts are he could actually hand out specific mythic abilities rather then the whole shebang.
1.Assension.
Players gain an 'effective mythic tier' of 1. They do not gain the complete benefits of a mythic tier, only the basic mythic power of a specific path chosen by the dm with a number of uses appropriate to their effective mythic tier.
2. Mythic Path Ability as an Epic Feat
Myth and Legend:
Prerequisites: Effective mythic tier 1. At least 3 other Epic feats.
You may select one mythic path ability for which your effective mythic tier meets the requirements and is either of your mythic path or among the universal mythic abilities.
Special: You may take this feat more then once, but only once per effective mythic tier, and for every 3 other Epic Feats you have taken.
Mythic Training:
Prerequisites: Effective mythic tier 1
You may take a single mythic feat for which you meet the prerequisites for.
Special: You may take this feat more then once, but only once per effective mythic tier.
the i've dug into P6 the more i almost want to lean to P8...just because it feels right that somewhere in the wide world there is an epic Priest who can rez people...
also in recently rereading Wheel of Time i remember that one of the most powerful abilities that Rand unlocks is the ability to Travel(teleport).
if i were constructing a P6 world I would hand pick a list of 4th level powers and allow them as rituals. maybe allow teleport more frequently to an end game PC.
Doesnt P6 already allow access to limited amounts of 4th level spells?
My next PF campaign will surely be a P6 one and I was thinking about this kind of combination with Mythic levels. I think that in the late game (around 5-6th level) it could be a great add-on to enhance the power of the characters and to improve a little bit the level of power, but I don't think I'll give more than 1 or 2 mythic levels.
Doesnt P6 already allow access to limited amounts of 4th level spells?I don't see how you can get 4th level spells at 6th level in any class.
they're obtainable as rituals through epic/signature feat advancement.
I would hand pick a bunch more spells.
I didn't know about the P6 codex. Just found that thread. Thanks!
What is E6, P6 etc? sorry for being rather dumb.
What is E6, P6 etc? sorry for being rather dumb.
No problem at all. E6 stands for "Epic at 6th". It was a set of alternate rules developed where PCs could advance as normal up to 6th level, then there would be rules where they could trade in experience points for extra feats, learning some higher level spells as rituals, and other such things that were designed to keep the "feel" of lower power-level/less god-like power from changing the game. One of the common complaints, for example, are that at a certain point, PCs get the ability to teleport or use other methods to avoid overland travel, so that was one of the issues that was designed to be avoided by this cutoff point.
There were groups who created their own rulesets and named them P6 for Pathfinder because E6 was originally developed for Dungeons & Dragons v3.5 (I'm not sure if it was around in 3.0). Examples of one of these sets of rules is the P6 Codex.
It sounds like sandbox wants to introduce 5th level spells though (raise dead and teleport), which would require P8.
oops freudian slip...see i am leaning toward p8
Seven league leap would become the travel power of choice, but you do need 6 mythic tiers before you can take it.
Monk that starts with 16 str/dex
6 ranks + 3 class + 1 trait + 3 feat + 2 feat + 20 Jump + 20 ki + 5 ring + 12 haste + 2 cat's grace + 3 stat + 1 stat adjustment -1 size
=77 jump check16 str + 2 enlarge person + 2 bull's str + 2 stat adj + ant haul + 8 mule back chords
=30 str Light load of 1064 pounds. That could carry the whole party.If this guy took mule back 5 times his light load would be 17 tons and could jump 44 miles.
he could take display of strength and then take mules strength four times for a 40 bonus instead of 25
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Gallyck, I think it sounds pretty interesting, and you should definitely give it a try and share your experiences here. :-)
I've been thinking that E6 with 3.5 gestalt type of stacking for a total of 12 levels would also be rather interesting. Some tweaking would be required for sure, but I think it would extend the levels that I enjoy playing the most.